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sub'd. I hate these long posts, I tend to just skim through them, but I enjoy your contribution and there will be some great info here for future reference:tup:
 

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So only the fastest driver on the track gets to mod eh?

Silly arguments.


PS: I missed anything about "How To Modify Your GR STi Suspension"
The point is just saying - why modify to improve your time when you can just improve your driving skill to be just as fast as you would be by modifying the car.

I obviously don't follow this since I'm pretty heavily modified, but it's just an interesting way to look at things. I've improved my local track lap time considerably with modifications and seat time. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Basically as I have time I will put in further info but I will take each step in succession because knowing more about each step in my experience was necessary to make the next step work. I will also go into great detail to show that a lot of common mods such as swaybars will actually lower your car's limit and it will be slower (though it will feel better until it will more easily fall apart at the limit) or without understanding the alignment needed to make it work will provide marginal benefit while the car actually feels worse.

And the biggest thing people hate, terminal understeer as well as unpredictable oversteer, are much better fixed with HP driver education.

Lastly becoming an HP driver has actually made me be able to enjoy driving in all situations, and enjoy driving more cars across a broader range of conditions. It also makes you a lot safer. It doesn't have to be that expensive. OK 15 track days and 10 autocrosses a year will get pricey on tires, brakes, oil changes etc. But 1-2 track days and 2-3 autocrosses per year will already teach a driver a huge amount.

The next section (which I am still working on it) is alignment. It is the most complex. It is going to be a very, very very LOOOOOOOOOOOONg post. But if one does not understand alignment very well, and you rush into bushings, springs and sways, you will fail. I guarantee that your lowered car with the sways you think will make it lots of fun and those fancy coilovers will have a hard time making it satisfactorily around curves. And I can tell you this with a high degree of certainty because it happened to me, and I thought I knew what I was talking about!
 

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The point is just saying - why modify to improve your time when you can just improve your driving skill to be just as fast as you would be by modifying the car.

I obviously don't follow this since I'm pretty heavily modified, but it's just an interesting way to look at things. I've improved my local track lap time considerably with modifications and seat time. :)

Because the car won't get faster on its own. If you want to get faster you should train and mod.

I climb regularly, mostly at a gym because I live in the pancake flat Pineland of South Jersey. Beginners almost always express how they aren't strong enough to do what I do. The fact is that mostly they have no technique. But, if they stick with it and keep trying, by the time they learn technique they will have gained a lot of strength!

Your car isn't going to gain strength as you learn technique.
Mod if you have the desire and the means.

Want another silly climbing argument? Why should worry about technique or getting stronger - - - -when all you have to do is loose weight!
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I would emphasize technique over mods because technique will allow you to make the most of the mods.

Also most mods will actually lower your lateral G's. Swaybars seem popular but 99% of the swaybar setups will actually lead the car to giving up traction sooner than stock which lowers your cornering speeds. It's a cheap and easy fix to make the car more responsive and feel more exotic than stock, but the cornering limits are actually harmed and this was my experience until I started looking a bit farther into it.

If one does not have the attention span to read these long posts, then one lacks the patience and attention span to mod suspension, period.

But at the crux of it all lies a good driver. Good driver with lots of HPDE in a Mazda 3 can pass bad drivers in their 911's on track day or bury them in Autocross. I've seen it countless times. Springs before sways, track day before mods etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Want another silly climbing argument? Why should worry about technique or getting stronger - - - -when all you have to do is loose weight!
This is common sense. Stop eating all carbs from whole grains to sugar to bread or pasta, and just eat raw direct fiber (fuits and vegetables), meat and fish, nuts, and full fat everything including dairy and the weight will melt off; no portion control needed. You will lose the insulin rushes, the carb crashes and feel far better from both lower weight and the ups and downs that sugars and starches cause.

Most people embark on these radical self help or weight loss programs that are doomed to fail when it's very simple. Don't eat any pure carbs at all, and just eat items as you would directly find in nature, completely unprocessed (veggies, fruit, meat and fish) and you can eat as much as you want, feel full, and still be thin.

After age 25 you will never enjoy the beautiful, wonderful hard body you had at age 20, but you will be enjoying your old age: doing the best you can with what you got left. But most people are so fucking fat that at 40 you can look and perform like an olympic athlete compared to most of these juice/soda drinking, chip shoveling, bulimic, wannabe anorexic fat fuck 19 year olds out there nowadays. But that's beyond the question.
 

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We're way off topic, but i started it and i was going to add to my previous post that in climbing, getting stronger allows only small gains because for fit people, getting stronger means gaining muscle mass, which entails gaining weight. Like driving, technique gets you further. Also like driving, serious people work at all the limitations they can.

FYI: i eat fairly healthy. Diet is one of the things that could be a limiting factor that I can control :)

Back to your regularly scheduled channel
 

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Because the car won't get faster on its own. If you want to get faster you should train and mod.

I climb regularly, mostly at a gym because I live in the pancake flat Pineland of South Jersey. Beginners almost always express how they aren't strong enough to do what I do. The fact is that mostly they have no technique. But, if they stick with it and keep trying, by the time they learn technique they will have gained a lot of strength!

Your car isn't going to gain strength as you learn technique.
Mod if you have the desire and the means.

Want another silly climbing argument? Why should worry about technique or getting stronger - - - -when all you have to do is loose weight!
Funny you bring this up, I climb as well (at Brooklyn Boulders mostly). 100% true. The whole technique argument applies to many, many things. It was a huge factor during my competitive swimming days back in high school..
 

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Great read. I've been researching suspension for my 14 WRX hatch and have been looking for better springs that won't lower the car. So far it seems my options are King Springs or see how complicated it would be to install sti suspension.

I did have a performance alignment on my 06 legacy and it was fantastic. I'll have to try and get my wrx in for one.
 

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Thank you for taking the time to write this Toivonen. Excellent information and presentation and, as many others have said, I am looking forward to further installments.
 

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This is all good stuff, but I need to take a week off from work just to read it. I'm thinking you should sell your own suspension packages...seriously. I just installed some bushings and coilovers. My next mod is a quick rack then I'll revisit this fantastic thread.

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #37
This is all good stuff, but I need to take a week off from work just to read it. I'm thinking you should sell your own suspension packages...seriously. I just installed some bushings and coilovers. My next mod is a quick rack then I'll revisit this fantastic thread.

Thanks
The other posts will be less long as alignment is the most important.

You should read this before coilovers but..... alignment, full driveline bushings and the steering stuff then stop. Or add springs then stop. Or don't do springs and do coilovers, suspension bushings, possibly stop but see how you feel about sways. Then tires (Better), then see how you feel about other chassis bracing past the steering and lower chassis braces for better steering feel. And remember to corner balance at stockish ride height, then align to those specs.

Rear upper arm bushings that are camber adjustable are your friend w/ coilovers because rear camber is not adjustable and the ride height will be slightly skewed based on how its corner balanced.
 

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Yes thanks. My struts were shot after 113k and the coilovers were almost new for $600, so I couldn't pass those up. So far yes it is one mod at a time. Only a few bushings and 2011 lower controll arms so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Yes thanks. My struts were shot after 113k and the coilovers were almost new for $600, so I couldn't pass those up. So far yes it is one mod at a time. Only a few bushings and 2011 lower controll arms so far.
I see you joined in 2004; don't you miss your GD?

I never had one, but I drove a friend's GD back in the day and immediately joined this forum thinking I'd buy one right away. I decided not to but looking back I could have without affecting my financial situation or future at all. Ah, the bad choices we make when we are young. While still on the shy side of 40, but not for long, I am still kinda young; glad I get to enjoy a really fun GR now. There will always be time for Toyotas later when I need a cane, a walker, stents in my heart, viagra or something even worse, some awful thing capable of killing your youthful energy. Many of my relatives stayed young until not long before they died, which is why they were so happy. But when you get a stroke or terminal cancer and feel the pain of having your eternal flame extinguished as you life flickers while slowly going out... ouch.

Glad to hear you're enjoying your car. Can't wait to get my kids into autocross but it will be another decade before they're old enough to get their licences.

All the Best!
T
 

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Was just looking at a 2005 STi in white all stock with 42k on it. I think about my old GD often. The GR makes so much sense and is so practical it's hard to deny.
 
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