[IB_8229]

Thanks for the reply! We're trying to get info from Garrett in the IWG V-band housings, but so far they only offer it with the small ones

I'm running the 0.83 A/R housing on my setup, and honestly would not really go with the IWG setup on a "stock location" housing. Was not too pleased with the GTX3071r or GTX3076r IWGs I have had in the past. Rotated with EWG really is the way to go in my personal opinion. The stock location Garrett housings really start choking and facing backpressure problems north of 6000 rpm, and boost begins to drop off.
When I had the GTX3076r, I tried to remedy this by sealing the IWG flapper and using an EWG, however the improvement was minimal. The issue was not that the IWG port was too small, but the stock location housing was too restrictive.

 

[killerbmotorsport]

OEM style housings on those (and most) turbos are just terrible. That's why we do OEM location with Tial (Spoolinator kit) so we get the best of both worlds. Although, the newer turbine housings from BW (EFR) and Garrett (G-Series) are leaps and bounds better than the 90s OEM style. OEM turbo manufacturers (BW and Garrett) have f-i-n-a-l-l-y got on board with the aftermarket screaming for performance solutions. IWG is never going to match EWG, but these new IWG housings are at least narrowing that performance gap, which is a good thing. I can't tell you how many EWG headers we've sold and later hear back, 'holy crap this thing is so freaking loud'. Most would sacrifice 10-20whp in exchange for not attracting every cop in a 5 mile radius, lol. I'm personally a fan of the recirc EWG, but from a kit standpoint I think most will choose IWG over the expense of going recirc EWG.

Thanks again!

 

[eaglehunter]

@IB-8229 - Thank you for the detailed response [emoji106]

@killerbmotorsport - are you looking at offering the efr turbos as an option with the spoolinator kit as well?

 

[Leemanfor]

I am looking to recirc my EWG, as its annoying and I am tired of the attention it attracts.

 

[killerbmotorsport]

@killerbmotorsport - are you looking at offering the efr turbos as an option with the spoolinator kit as well?

No. With all the boost regulation issues and some of the reliability issues I've seen shops struggle with we are not going to use them. I can't tell you how many Garretts we've sold, but it's a LOT. Never a single issue. On our own shop cars we've abused them pretty good. I have an older GTX3576 that I've used on 3 cars and 5 builds and the second to last had a bunch of coolant pumped through it. Thought for sure it would be dead; sent to Garrett for inspection and it's fine, and now running in yet another setup.

 

[eaglehunter]

Great information, thank you.

 

[IB_8229]

OEM style housings on those (and most) turbos are just terrible. That's why we do OEM location with Tial (Spoolinator kit) so we get the best of both worlds. Although, the newer turbine housings from BW (EFR) and Garrett (G-Series) are leaps and bounds better than the 90s OEM style. OEM turbo manufacturers (BW and Garrett) have f-i-n-a-l-l-y got on board with the aftermarket screaming for performance solutions. IWG is never going to match EWG, but these new IWG housings are at least narrowing that performance gap, which is a good thing. I can't tell you how many EWG headers we've sold and later hear back, 'holy crap this thing is so freaking loud'. Most would sacrifice 10-20whp in exchange for not attracting every cop in a 5 mile radius, lol. I'm personally a fan of the recirc EWG, but from a kit standpoint I think most will choose IWG over the expense of going recirc EWG.

Thanks again!

Agree, the OEM turbine housings are really restrictive. It's a shame to attempt to use them to squeeze anything north of 400 whp as they really stress the engine.

EWG is always a better choice; there is no shortage of unconventional ideas and concepts that would help quieten an EWG. It's just that these are not common or conventional, possibly one off solutions too that require custom fabrication that not everyone has access to.

 

[rskwrx]

OEM style housings on those (and most) turbos are just terrible. That's why we do OEM location with Tial (Spoolinator kit) so we get the best of both worlds. Although, the newer turbine housings from BW (EFR) and Garrett (G-Series) are leaps and bounds better than the 90s OEM style. OEM turbo manufacturers (BW and Garrett) have f-i-n-a-l-l-y got on board with the aftermarket screaming for performance solutions. IWG is never going to match EWG, but these new IWG housings are at least narrowing that performance gap, which is a good thing. I can't tell you how many EWG headers we've sold and later hear back, 'holy crap this thing is so freaking loud'. Most would sacrifice 10-20whp in exchange for not attracting every cop in a 5 mile radius, lol. I'm personally a fan of the recirc EWG, but from a kit standpoint I think most will choose IWG over the expense of going recirc EWG.

Thanks again!

Hay Guys Josh here from New Zealand... I'm Doing a build on my 03 wrx sti... I have built the engine it started life as a EJ255 out of a turbo outback. not much point boring you with the engine specs but has been built well and to make good HP. First dyno run we run a gtx3071R twin scroll and made 315kw 400ft @22psi boost peak power was just over 6500 rpm and would not make any more power with more boost or timing live data showed egp to boost exceeding 1:1. round 2 at the dyno we tried a g30-660 0.84ar basically run into the same issue this time results were different @ 22 psi it made the same power but turbo come in 500 rpm sooner and run out just over 6500 and made another 100ft pound of torque but saw 35-45 psi on the egp. we tried 6 degrees more advance timing and run the lucas octane booster and made 470whp but became knock limited. basically i feel the turbo just isn't big enough on the exhaust side. we are running bp 98 octane fuel and wanting to make around 500-550 whp I would be interested in your thoughts. Cheers

 

[SlowInFastOut]

Hay Guys Josh here from New Zealand... I'm Doing a build on my 03 wrx sti... I have built the engine it started life as a EJ255 out of a turbo outback. not much point boring you with the engine specs but has been built well and to make good HP. First dyno run we run a gtx3071R twin scroll and made 315kw 400ft @22psi boost peak power was just over 6500 rpm and would not make any more power with more boost or timing live data showed egp to boost exceeding 1:1. round 2 at the dyno we tried a g30-660 0.84ar basically run into the same issue this time results were different @ 22 psi it made the same power but turbo come in 500 rpm sooner and run out just over 6500 and made another 100ft pound of torque but saw 35-45 psi on the egp. we tried 6 degrees more advance timing and run the lucas octane booster and made 470whp but became knock limited. basically i feel the turbo just isn't big enough on the exhaust side. we are running bp 98 octane fuel and wanting to make around 500-550 whp I would be interested in your thoughts. Cheers

For 98 grade fuel the g30 did quite well. I find that exhaust gas back pressure to be one of the main culprits of why things are limited.

On my car, with just built motor it was the same results for the gen 2 GTX3076r and Blouch Dom 3.0xtr. After building the valve train with oversized ferrea valves and opening up the exhaust side it made about 80whp(not sure what it is in KW) but it was significant.

We then moved to a gen 2 gtx3576R 1.03A/R and easily cleared the 470whp mark on pump fuel with egts in the clear as well as back pressure. With the built valve train and larger cams we shifted our power band in the timeattack car to 4200rpm peak torque and peak power at 7300 rpm, redlining at 8200rpm.

For giggles on the dyno, we set up the Haltech Elite 2500 with flex fuel and a few other goodies and ran pump ethanol and made 600whp at 30psi. Ended up bringing it back down to specifications of the class we race in, but in general i see no point in running twin scrolls or weird sized turbos like the 3076r. Once you get into the 450whp territory and you are still thinking about super duper early spool that cant carry out into the upper revs where a faster car would be, then i wouldve stuck with a smaller stock location fp or blouch turbo and left it at 23psi.

If you are dead set on 500-550 as other have asked before. I would absolutely reccommend larger cams and larger valves along with a 35r sized turbo with the larger hotside. You'll just have to come to terms that it is now a road style competition car and not a torquey street car anymore. If you are limited in octane or at higher elevation(which i doubt you are) then you may possibly be looking at even a larger turbo than the 35r if you dont build your heads. In my area and on track days, there are a few teams that daily 500whp ej257s on a 35r with US 93oct making 490-500whp. However i believe a lot of them are using a water meth injection system.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[rskwrx]

For 98 grade fuel the g30 did quite well. I find that exhaust gas back pressure to be one of the main culprits of why things are limited.

On my car, with just built motor it was the same results for the gen 2 GTX3076r and Blouch Dom 3.0xtr. After building the valve train with oversized ferrea valves and opening up the exhaust side it made about 80whp(not sure what it is in KW) but it was significant.

We then moved to a gen 2 gtx3576R 1.03A/R and easily cleared the 470whp mark on pump fuel with egts in the clear as well as back pressure. With the built valve train and larger cams we shifted our power band in the timeattack car to 4200rpm peak torque and peak power at 7300 rpm, redlining at 8200rpm.

For giggles on the dyno, we set up the Haltech Elite 2500 with flex fuel and a few other goodies and ran pump ethanol and made 600whp at 30psi. Ended up bringing it back down to specifications of the class we race in, but in general i see no point in running twin scrolls or weird sized turbos like the 3076r. Once you get into the 450whp territory and you are still thinking about super duper early spool that cant carry out into the upper revs where a faster car would be, then i wouldve stuck with a smaller stock location fp or blouch turbo and left it at 23psi.

If you are dead set on 500-550 as other have asked before. I would absolutely reccommend larger cams and larger valves along with a 35r sized turbo with the larger hotside. You'll just have to come to terms that it is now a road style competition car and not a torquey street car anymore. If you are limited in octane or at higher elevation(which i doubt you are) then you may possibly be looking at even a larger turbo than the 35r if you dont build your heads. In my area and on track days, there are a few teams that daily 500whp ej257s on a 35r with US 93oct making 490-500whp. However i believe a lot of them are using a water meth injection system.

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Thought that may be the case I had the heads ported by cnc machine but didn't go bigger exhaust valves. also run kelford V2 199-B spec cams 264&260/260. as far as the next step for turbo would you consider the g35-900 as option. I'm still want a reasonable response and make peak power around 7000rpm. There's not many people over here doing any r&d on these turbos on EJ's yet. and feel Garrett may be over ratting there turbo hp wise

 

[SlowInFastOut]

Thought that may be the case I had the heads ported by cnc machine but didn't go bigger exhaust valves. also run kelford V2 199-B spec cams 264&260/260. as far as the next step for turbo would you consider the g35-900 as option. I'm still want a reasonable response and make peak power around 7000rpm. There's not many people over here doing any r&d on these turbos on EJ's yet. and feel Garrett may be over ratting there turbo hp wise

You are limiting youself a lot by not going larger valves. That step alone for our car was a solid 50whp. I personally never ran the new g35-900 but i can tell you that the 3584rs is fabulous.

I would suggest valves and a larger cam set. A 272 style grind would be alright. But i opted for a set of bc280s



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[yamahaSHO]

The 6758 is a great turbo, however, having tuned several 7163's, that is my go-to now on the stock location EFR turbos.

I recently tuned a gen 2 GTX 3582 on an STi and a gen 2 GTX 3071 on an S2000 and both of them performed extremely well. I have a lot of good feedback on track (road course) with the S2000 and it being a lot of fun at ~500whp. The STi also did really well with the roll races a few weeks ago.

@14:13

 

[Karlot]

For 98 grade fuel the g30 did quite well. I find that exhaust gas back pressure to be one of the main culprits of why things are limited.

On my car, with just built motor it was the same results for the gen 2 GTX3076r and Blouch Dom 3.0xtr. After building the valve train with oversized ferrea valves and opening up the exhaust side it made about 80whp(not sure what it is in KW) but it was significant.

We then moved to a gen 2 gtx3576R 1.03A/R and easily cleared the 470whp mark on pump fuel with egts in the clear as well as back pressure. With the built valve train and larger cams we shifted our power band in the timeattack car to 4200rpm peak torque and peak power at 7300 rpm, redlining at 8200rpm.

For giggles on the dyno, we set up the Haltech Elite 2500 with flex fuel and a few other goodies and ran pump ethanol and made 600whp at 30psi. Ended up bringing it back down to specifications of the class we race in, but in general i see no point in running twin scrolls or weird sized turbos like the 3076r. Once you get into the 450whp territory and you are still thinking about super duper early spool that cant carry out into the upper revs where a faster car would be, then i wouldve stuck with a smaller stock location fp or blouch turbo and left it at 23psi.

If you are dead set on 500-550 as other have asked before. I would absolutely reccommend larger cams and larger valves along with a 35r sized turbo with the larger hotside. You'll just have to come to terms that it is now a road style competition car and not a torquey street car anymore. If you are limited in octane or at higher elevation(which i doubt you are) then you may possibly be looking at even a larger turbo than the 35r if you dont build your heads. In my area and on track days, there are a few teams that daily 500whp ej257s on a 35r with US 93oct making 490-500whp. However i believe a lot of them are using a water meth injection system.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

i know i'm reviving an old thread. but would you share specs on that car. peak tq at 4200 sounds awesome from a 3576. i'm also surprised at that with the 103 exhaust side. what boost levels are you running at that?

and how much larger are your valves?

i havent done heads yet but i'm getting more and more into time attack and would like my next turbo to be what i want. ideally i'd like 500-550ish whp (e85). and ive been leaning towards the 3576. initlally i was leaning more towards the 3076 because that seems to be the turbo of choice for the faster time attack subarus ive researched, but most places are saying spool is not very different on the 3576 and you make a ton more up top.

 

[killerbmotorsport]

Here's another one, stock heads on this one... VF48, GTX3071, and 3576...

 

[Karlot]

Here's another one, stock heads on this one... VF48, GTX3071, and 3576...

View attachment 61587

I know you say 3576, I do wonder why most of the faster guys running time attack (street classes) go with the 3076 over the 3576. Any guesses as to why?

 

[SlowInFastOut]

I know you say 3576, I do wonder why most of the faster guys running time attack (street classes) go with the 3076 over the 3576. Any guesses as to why?

You say time attack guys. But you need to give us some info on what class you are looking at and what power to weight ratio the class runs.

It may be that in the cars you are seeing, the 3076r is more efficient in a different operating range and different fuel type. The compression ratio may suit it better or some other black magic they got going on that we dont know about.

In our car we run quite efficiently in the power levels we need to compete in our class using the 3576r. The compressor wheel paired with the turbine wheel is fantastic at a broad range of boost levels on e85 or some form of race gas.

Another thing to think about is pricing on the parts if they are not sponsored, they cost a pretty penny, those 35r's.

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[mheyman]

Just a guess that lots of less informed people start with the is idea that smaller will allow faster spool, and perhaps less risk of other failures. Over the last few years I feel KB has pretty well debunked the former. As for the later - when I built in 2015, as a new experience, (hadn't built a car in 40 years and first turbo build) I was concerned about reliability too. Two things have occurred since then I've learned a lot, and the state of building has changed. In 2015 breaking 400 was still kind of a big deal and I settled for less. Today builders do it regularly - at expense, but regularly.

 

[killerbmotorsport]

I think mheyman hit it on the head. Go back 15 years and the GT3076 was the go-to turbo for big power. By today's standards it's just not the right tool for the job IMO. So yes, legacy experience has an effect. A lot of shops had great results way back with the GT3076 and it became their standard recipe for success. It's what worked well for them. I find many seem to be apprehensive to go to the 3576 because of the concern for lag. It's just not what reality shows. Not to mention all the other benefits of running the larger and more efficient 3576. I myself was very apprehensive to even run this test until nudged by Garrett to give it a try. It's my #1 favorite turbo on these EJ25s because it just works so well.

 

[Karlot]

I think mheyman hit it on the head. Go back 15 years and the GT3076 was the go-to turbo for big power. By today's standards it's just not the right tool for the job IMO. So yes, legacy experience has an effect. A lot of shops had great results way back with the GT3076 and it became their standard recipe for success. It's what worked well for them. I find many seem to be apprehensive to go to the 3576 because of the concern for lag. It's just not what reality shows. Not to mention all the other benefits of running the larger and more efficient 3576. I myself was very apprehensive to even run this test until nudged by Garrett to give it a try. It's my #1 favorite turbo on these EJ25s because it just works so well.

When I say time attack im actually referring to gridlife time attack street class. Specifically Markos (and sally) from snail performance. They run ignite red e85 so far as I know. And both run gtx3076r gen2 turbos. I do believe that Cody miles is also running the same turbo. I’m just not sure on what fuel. Markos basically has the setup I love out of a hawkeye. And one I’d like to follow. I know he’s set street class records with this setup (although I’m not sure if they still stand or not). Locally I only have nasa tt. And that limits power to weight. Which I’m a fairly new track driver so honestly turning it down for now doesn’t bother me and leaves room to grow and learn. I’m not opposed to running the 3576, I was set on the 3076 gen2 until killer b said they prefer that. I was just curious as to why many of the mentioned guys went with the 3076 over the 3576. So far as I know there’s not a limit on power in gta street class. Although I may be wrong on that. Nasa tt is just need to weigh the car and see what I’d be competitive in. Honestly everything I’ve seen from killer b has me second guessing my decision. I know they go deep into testing. More than a lot of shops. And if they say the 3576 I may just go with that. But I was curious as to why is all.

 

[badboy_2083]

KB has done a lot for the community and has always been a good source of information. The GTX3576 is an awesome turbo for that "500-550ish whp" range you want. I believe taking a look at Garrett's new G series as well may also be a great option for you. The G30-770 looks like it will give the GTX3576 a run for it's money with both spool and Garrett themselves rate it for more power potential. Then there's the G35-900 which is the same size as the GTX3576.