Fourseason- Is it okay that the Steel braided line you provided a link to is for an '06/'07 STi even though it is attaching to an '05 slave cylinder? I assume the connections are the same but wanted to check before I order the part.

I'm asking this publicly so others know the answer as well.

 

It's all here!

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Its not a banjo bolt and not sure why I left it there. It doesn't do anything. That is where the clutch delay valve used to attach.

 

EDIT- Tips I learned that will help make this install easier:

1) The 10mm bolt on the hard line that screws into the clutch hose turns; I assumed it was fixed and spent about an hour trying to use vise grips on the cylinder on the rubber clutch line and trying to unscrew that part off of the hard line which did not work!

Put a wrench on the bolt and try to unscrew it. If you round it off, move to the one that attaches the hard line to the reservoir on the master cylinder. That one comes off really easily. If you go this route, unscrew the nut on the pitch stop mount to remove the mounting point, and then just fish the hard line, rubber clutch line, and slave cylinder out; all still attached to each other.

2) If you have an '06 or '07 and you are replacing the slave cylinder to do this mod (which you have to do), you can just order the 04/05 slave, remove the ferrel out of it, and just swap out the old slave for the new one. If you want to add a steel braided line you can but it's not necessary. The other steps involving undoing the pin behind the accelerator pedal, removing the master cylinder, and installing the bolt into the bottom of the master cylinder are not necessary and was verified in post#85:
"i postulated many many posts back in this thread that the heavy "knob" that we replace with the M16x1.5 bolt should actually not be replaced at all, since it has zero effect on the clutch delay.

well today, i pulled everything back out and swapped the "knob" back in. Finally, the super annoying harmonic resonance I'd been hearing is gone, and that confirmed all my suspicions. I'm now convinced that that knob is a tuned harmonic damper to eliminate/reduce noise from coming through the cylinder assy and into the cabin.

I'd suggest only replacing the internal ferules and flow restrictions for this mod. And NOT the weighted knob/fluid resevoir."

3) I was able to access the two bolts on the slave and remove them without removing the starter.
-PB Blast the two bolts
-For the bolt closest to the front of the car, use an offset wrench.
-For the bolt closest to the cabin of the car (harder to access), use a 1/4 inch ratchet with a breaker bar. The tiny 1/4 ratchet is nice and small and gets in there nicely.

My original post before the above edit:
By the way I did not remove the master cylinder as I am leaving that harmonic tuning knob in there since other members have determined it doesn't seem to make a difference if you remove it or leave it there. All I did was remove the two bolts on the slave cylinder, unscrewed the clutch line from it, and removed the slave cylinder. Theoretically I could just put the '05 slave cylinder that I removed that little plug out of and attach it to the stock clutch line and be done with the job; correct? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Well I must admit this job isn't as simple as it looks. I started working on this at 7 and was interrupted a few times for 10-15 minutes, but other than that worked straight through until 1am. The intercooler was off in a matter of minutes and everything after that was difficult-to-access bolts and lines that did not want to come apart or go back together.

Five or so hours of being hunched over the engine bay was not fun so I'm really hoping this will fix that annoying hesitation; then it will all have been completely worth it.

Everything is back together and looks good; now I just need to wait for my wife to get back from work tomorrow to help me bleed the system.

 

After driving around for the past 30 minutes I can honestly say this mod is absolutely worth doing. As fourseason noted, the clutch engages closer to the floor and now the clutch reminds me of my buddy's 1993 Twin Entry Turbo MR2 which had the lowest clutch engagement point I have ever experienced (the lower the better).

Fast shifts feel great and the clutch engagement just feels better overall.

 

After driving around for the past 30 minutes I can honestly say this mod is absolutely worth doing. As fourseason noted, the clutch engages closer to the floor

This alone will be why I will do this in the spring. I can't stand how high my clutch releases. It feels like the clutch is on it's last legs and it's not.

 

Glad you like it.

 

Does anyone have any idea why the knob on the master cylinder with the hole in it would have anything to do with the flow of hydraulic fluid? Why would replacing it with a solid plug make any difference?

 

The "knob" is a pressure wave dampener. Brake fluid is slightly compressible & after the delay valving is removed the volume of the system and the compressibility are all that matter. Most positive displacement pumps have a dampener of some kind. It makes a difference.

 

Here is a wikidpedia link to "Pressure Wave Dampers". Sounds like it should be left alone and not replaced by a plug.

Applications
a. Placed closely before a valve that is closed quickly. Stops water hammering.
b. Placed immediately after the discharge of a pump that is started fast in to a pipe full of a long column of liquid. Reduces start up surge pressure.
c. Placed immediately after a pump, which when caused to stop suddenly, enables a vacuum to form, which pulls the flow back towards the pump. Prevents an implosion bang.

Hydropneumatic device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

T-Dub- Google: Dorman 65325 and it will get you the correct part number for the screw that replaces the dampener.

Judging by the wikidpedia information in the link I provided, I can't imagine any harm being done by leaving it in there as it is to prevent a surge in pressure and is standard in systems such as ours. Removing it is what I would think could cause harm. Any pros out there want to drop some knowledge?

 

Don't start screwing it up like me. It's a Damper. Accumulator bottle is what I call the red ball on this mud pump:

F-2200 Triplex Mud Pumps

You can't shove 80-150 pounds of mud directly into a 5000 psi drilling system 105 times a minute. The surface system is too small in volume and pipe id, without that accumulator there to delay the pressure wave just a millisec it would get destroyed by the pump. Kind of like the hard line on my car and the delay valve & accumulator no? Logically it seems like it should stay, but my engineering instincts convinced me with the added volume & without the choke in the slave the accumulator shouldn't be needed & is prolly the opposite of what you want in the last place you want it. I'll report back when I get mine off.

 

I hope gbonesti doesn't mind me posting his reply to the PM I sent him. He is the one that stated he put the dampener back on after being annoyed by the sounds he was hearing after doing this mod.

Here is our discussion:

Originally Posted by sti2relaxxin
I just quoted you in the Clutch delay mod thread and followed your advice by not removing the harmonic damper you recommended leaving on the master cylinder. It has been a while since you posted that and I was wondering if you still feel there was no difference when you removed it compared to when you put it back in?

All I did was order an '05 slave cylinder, took out the ferrel, and replaced my stock '07 slave cylinder with it, and I definitely notice a difference in how the clutch engages now. I love it!

Your feedback would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance for your help.

-Eric


"yeah, after numerous miles now, i still say that removing that harmonic damper makes zero sense. all it does is bring more NVH into the cabin. i haven't noticed any difference in clutch actuation with it back on. It's the internal ferrule resrictions that slow the fluid transfer down. Not that heavy knob. Hope that helps you out."

 

isn't removal of the clutch delay the entire purpose of this thread? the knob serves a couple purposes, but delaying clutch actuation isn't one of them. one is cabin nvh reduction which i've personally proved (others experience with this may vary). the other is the pressure wave damping mentioned by t-dub.

So if it has no effect on clutch delay but does serve to provide other benefits, why would anyone remove it?

 

This is the million dollar question and what I would like to hear a definitive answer to. Anyone?

 

I love these types of mods; a little work here and there like this makes the STi adapt to however you like it.

 

sorry guys but, you should not notice any difference in clutch pedal travel after doing the delete. it has nothing to do with pedal travel or the engagement point.

the delay valve is just a small hydraulic bypass valve that diverts the fluid into a small reservoir to create a small increase in the volume of fluid needed to move the clutch. in other words, it causes a slight 'delay' in the reaction of the clutch to the change in hydraulic pressure caused by the clutch pedal travel. the delete just plugs up this small reservoir and hastens the reaction time by decreasing the fluid volume needed.

subaru put the delay valve is there to help drivers who suck at manual transmissions because theyre uncoordinated. deleting it can hardly be noticed.

is it worth doing? only if youre very anal and you are demanding a lot from the car.

 

is it worth doing? only if you're very anal and you are demanding a lot from the car.

This describes me perfectly and is why I did notice a small difference. Just to prove how anal I am I added an apostrophe to the word "you're" above : )

 

A delay valve which slows hydrologic fluid would certainly have some effect on when the clutch actually engages, especially the faster you move the clutch pedal.

 

A delay valve which slows hydrologic fluid would certainly have some effect on when the clutch actually engages, especially the faster you move the clutch pedal.

it doesn't "slow" hydraulic fluid. it diverts it. the delete stops it from diverting. i'm pretty much done trying to explain it to you but, to anyone else reading this, i would have more confidence in my explanation.

think of your subjective experience as the automotive equivelent of the placebo effect.

btw, we did one of the first deletes on my project in 2005. we also came up with the idea of using a set screw for the second half of the delete. i wrote a technical piece on it here:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/how-install/33019-clutch-delay-valve-delete-alternative-method.html. the date on the piece is sept 05.

This describes me perfectly and is why I did notice a small difference. Just to prove how anal I am I added an apostrophe the the word "you're" above : )

i wasn't calling you anal. i was calling ME anal.

 

Since you're compelled to be a God dammed dick, draw me up a diagram as I have not had mine apart.

 

Neanderthal Racing is normally really helpful and has been great helping me out in the past when I've run into issues, so I think he's just in a bad mood today.

yamahaSHO- check out page 10-13 or so of this thread if you haven't already to read lots of good tips that I and fourseasonsandals posted.

 

Wow... So much lol in this thread.

For the record. I did this mod as well and I noticed a slight difference. Everything Neanderthal said is true. It's doing nothing but slowing the time that the actual pressure starts to do work. You may "THINK" you're getting an engagement when ur pedal is at height "a" which is higher than height "b" with and without the mod (relatively speaking) but its probably just because your releasing the clutch too fast to actually notice that the engagement point hasn't changed. Its just that before the mod, you wouldn't feel an engagement until ur foot is higher up since you were releasing quicker than the fluid was moving. Once it caught up it would engage. At that point ur pedal would be higher up giving you the illusion of a higher engagement point. The way to truly test this and prove it, is to release the clutch pedal very slowly and measure the engagement point before and after the mod. However this would only be to help anyone who doesn't understand this to further visualize this process.


I kindly ask that we all stop the hate and we act like mature individuals to avoid a great informative thread from being locked. Threads like this and the great people on this site is what keeps long time STi owners like me coming back.

Regards
Jay

 

I kindly ask that we all stop the hate and we act like mature individuals to avoid a great informative thread from being locked. Threads like this and the great people on this site is what keeps long time STi owners like me coming back.

Regards
Jay

i think we have it under control. when we need babysitting, we'll ask for it.

 

dude, that is a rough first post in your short tenure here on iwsti. in fact, because it is your first post, why on earth would you think he was correcting your punctuation? he was actually "spell checking" me. this argument is long over with.

 

People seemed to have forgotten your knowledge and wit in your absence Bruce. Glad to see you haven't changed any :isfh:

 

I understand that was a pretty rough first post but I was having some clutch issues and stumbled on this thread. Reading through it, Neanderthal, you had some great info and you where very informative. Sti2relaxxin , in my opinion, was really being a "D" bag. I really got a kick out of how he was, in the end, arguing with you and tried correcting your grammar. In reality, he couldn't even get his own grammar correct. I very rarely ever chime in on these forums. I come from a long racing history and every now and then some guy pops up with something that I just can't resist to chime in on.

 

I've never been a douche bag in any post I've posted on this site, so I apologize if I came off as one. Before Neanderthal edited his posts they were pretty raw and I think I held my composure pretty well.

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with my grammar in the post you quoted? The smiley face at the end?
EDIT- "the the". Busted! No more OT posts from me.

 

now, that makes much more sense now that you explained yourself. welcome to iwsti.

 

smh...

 

Hi, I know this is an old post but will the delay valve also slow the disengagement of the clutch?

 

I just did this on a 2013 STi.

I cross referenced this thread on a different forum because there's simply too much noise in this thread.

http://www.wrxforums.com/forums/11-...ch-delay-valve-removal-diy-must-rough-engage-clutches.html#/topics/22744?page=3

I followed the rough instructions of xluben in post 40.

what I have to add:


if you don't have a 24mm wrench a 15/16 inch standard wrench will do the job. break the bolt that houses the delay components she'll the slave is still on the transmission.

you can remove the guts / delay components of the "06+" slave cylinder without removing the slave cylinder from the transmission. I broke the bolt, unscrewed it tediously ( the o ring and delay components make it so you cannot hand loosen until the very end), and then fished out the spring, the orifice and the cup with dental tools.

however, you may not want to skip removing the slave cylinder if you also replace the line. replacing the line introduces too much air in the system and a typical bleed of any type will not give you a solid pedal. in order to achieve a full bleed you must bench bleed. i even tried parking on a 41% incline (steepest in the Bay Area) and vacuum bleeding and it did not give me a rock solid pedal. the first 2cm of pedal is still compressing air. note, with a 41% incline, the nipple of the bleed screw is still well below the highest point on the slave cylinder. you have to pick the car up by the tail to get this thing pointed in the right direction.

if you don't want to shop all around for the right master cylinder to slave cylinder clutch line, then an off the shelf option is the chase bay WRX / BRZ clutch line.

https://www.chasebays.com/products/...ays-clutch-line-02-07-subaru-wrx-subaru-brz-scion-fr-s-gt86?variant=33631474953

it's twice as much as piecing a kit together yourself, but I'm lazy. it's long enough, maybe even too long, but this allowed me to route the line behind the hoses in the same area. it removes all the hard lines and the factory soft line.

 

Does a 2008 Subaru Impreza wagon have a CDV?