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Discussion starter · #22 ·
Hello, I have a question regarding an 08 STi. I currently run 22f/22r (Whiteline) sway bars. The front is set to hard (eq 23) and the rear to medium (eq 22). While the initial turn in is very good, it tends to understeer at the limit. It is a DD and the road quality is not the best.
The question: Should I go front - soft ?

Thanks
It could be understeering for a number of reasons. I would try the following:

1) Increase the rear bar stiffness to max. That will help to pull some weight off the front and onto the rear tires. Turn-in should also improve. The 08 STI has a terrible spring rate bias to the front, this was "fixed" in the later STIs which makes them handle much closer to neutral.

2) Increase the front camber to at least 1.5 degrees negative. Look at the tire and see if you are on the sidewall or if the shoulder is chewed up. That's a good indication that you don't have enough camber. OEM specs will give you 0.5 - 1 degree, which isn't enough for a McStrut front suspension if you drive it hard.

3) Double check your tire pressures. They should be in the 32 - 36# range cold.

Also, our cars will understeer as a result of driver inputs. Light amounts of throttle input will force the car to the outside, this is because of the differentials. Be sure to feel the car out by varying your throttle inputs. Shift the DCCD to Auto (-) to try to push more torque to the rear, the car will have a slightly less reactive front differential feel.

Being that the car is an 08, I would be saving my pennies for a nicer spring setup. It's also going to be needing new shocks past the 25 - 30K mile marker. Coilovers are a good start, but a good Koni / Bilstein shock with RCE springs can get you a great street suspension setup.

If you are interested, send me an email at sales@vikingspeedshop.com and I can help give you some options on suspension. Give me your goals and demands.
 
Great Post!

Thanks for the information. Exactly the info I happened to be looking for :)
Beware running upgraded sways unless you keep the front one a lot stiffer. For a DD only just about any swaybar combo will help the roll and understeer, regardless of what settings you have, some better and others to your preferences.

However, for high performance driving like track or autocross, beware, as even 23F/22R in my 2013 GR with stock springs made the inside rear lift. A set up camber plates, more performance related alignment, 6k/7k springs and coilovers sure did help in all regards. But what I am saying is that if you play with the swabars alone the front, due to front heaviness, should be stiffer by at least 2mm in most situations. If you need to scrub more understeer out then you need to play w/ alignment, or go to upgraded springs like the RCE regular guy springs if you don't want to go too crazy. That should be a more reasonable setup w/o coilovers if you don't want to go that route, though on a 2008 by now the shocks will probably need changing so you might want to think about coilovers anyway if you are tracking or autocrossing.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-susp...on-handling-stiffening/269726-super-pro-sway-bar-suspension-analysis-alert.html
 
So just put of curiosity what bars would you recommend for a DD w RCE Blacks and Feal (revalved) struts?
So back in Jan when I wrote this I had been given a owned a set of Cobb bars for Xmas. They're hollow 25s.I've had them on a few months now. The car went from terminal under-steer (I sometimes thought I just didn't know how to drive it.) to feeling like a sports car costing many times what I paid for my STI.

I did have to use longer bolts, spacers on the end-links, and I do have a fitment issue. with the passenger rear hitting a the plastic guard over the fuel fill line. It makes noise, and it has worn off the powder coat. I worry about it doing more damage too. haven't figured out a way to fix this yet

I don't have much to compare to, but handling wise I was lucky cause I can't imagine it being better!
 
owns 2020 Subaru STI
Beware running upgraded sways unless you keep the front one a lot stiffer. For a DD only just about any swaybar combo will help the roll and understeer, regardless of what settings you have, some better and others to your preferences.

However, for high performance driving like track or autocross, beware, as even 23F/22R in my 2013 GR with stock springs made the inside rear lift. A set up camber plates, more performance related alignment, 6k/7k springs and coilovers sure did help in all regards. But what I am saying is that if you play with the swabars alone the front, due to front heaviness, should be stiffer by at least 2mm in most situations. If you need to scrub more understeer out then you need to play w/ alignment, or go to upgraded springs like the RCE regular guy springs if you don't want to go too crazy. That should be a more reasonable setup w/o coilovers if you don't want to go that route, though on a 2008 by now the shocks will probably need changing so you might want to think about coilovers anyway if you are tracking or autocrossing.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-susp...on-handling-stiffening/269726-super-pro-sway-bar-suspension-analysis-alert.html
Usually rear tire lift is caused by springs that are too soft and/or sway bars that are too stiff. When you went with the new higher spring rate COs did you try the 22mm rear setting again to confirm that the rear bar was still a problem? Not doubting your overall observations just wondering whether you'd be able to assess the spring/co change (approx 33% increase over stk) independent of bar setting change.
 
Usually rear tire lift is caused by springs that are too soft and/or sway bars that are too stiff. When you went with the new higher spring rate COs did you try the 22mm rear setting again to confirm that the rear bar was still a problem? Not doubting your overall observations just wondering whether you'd be able to assess the spring/co change (approx 33% increase over stk) independent of bar setting change.
No, I softened the rear just to see how it handles. If it handles well then problem solved. If I feel some tug or understeer then I will re-stiffen the rear to 22/medium (as opposed to 21mm or soft). My goal is to have the suspension the least stiff to meet my goals. So far I am happy with how the car handles, much tighter but a bit less jarring than stock despite more stiff everything thanks to the better damping of the AST's. My next autocross is in a few days so I will be able to make a report.
 
history: '11 GR, various bushing upgrades (steering rack, shift kit, diff, engine/tranny/ps mounts), KW v3 with swift 400# in rear, 24mm frt/22mm rr WL....

car was always jarring, unbalanced and seemed to be fighting itself, it seemed the heavy front bar oversprung the c/o springs, no matter the setting...i typically ran softest on front, and hard on rear...with bump at 3-4 and rebound 12 or so, frt and rear on the v3s...

in comes the Superpro 22mm from Cyngus...(thanks Geoff)....

Talk about transformative....!!!....it feels like a new suspension (22mm front on hard and 22mm rr on mid setting)...car is still firm but now supple the springs are able to do their work...!!!!...

any increase in roll in negilble until 8/10th....car seems more alive on its tires and communicative...

i, agree, near the edge, the previous setup was not at all progressive.....and gone is the annoying high speed mid corner throttle lift or dab chassis TWITCH that drove me nuts...required waay more driver's attention than necessary....

overall the car is far more comfortable and handling now seems more predictable and enjoyable....

i'm a new convert....less bar with more spring...!
 
If you haven't tried the softeset 21mm rear bar setting you might like it. I'm on RCE T2s which are similar to the V3s but little more aggressive (500# frt/rr springs) and the softest rear setting with stiff front (23mm frt,21mm rr) Super Pros work better for me. Since you're on 100# softer springs you actually find that this is a good match.

One comment on your V3 settings, in general the rebound and bounce should be within a few clicks of each other on the frt or the rear. I found that my car was "bouncy" when they were they had too little rebound. You might find the thread on RCE T2 settings thread.
 
i'm a new convert....less bar with more spring...!
This plus a performance alignment with a bit more front negative camber is the way to go, and always stiffer sway in the front than rear. 23F/22 or 21 rear is probably the best way to go, but I will say w/ swaybars alone while 23F/22R feels great in DD mode, at the limit it will lift the inside rear and the car will tend to spin out as a result due to this sudden loss of traction. The solution is stiffer springs and a slightly softer rear bar (22 stiff F, 22 soft R for the Super Pro 22's). As Geoff said, the fastest STi's in time trials and autocross tend to run very stiff coilovers, but not very stiff swaybars.

Lots of bar is the cheap and easy DD way but as you approach the limit it has its, well, limitations. You need to keep the suspension in mind as a whole and not throw on just one thing thinking stiffer = less roll = better handling. There are unintended consequences to everything and you need to factor those in.
 
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