I just roll the ball of my foot off the right side of the brake pedal to contact the gas. Works just fine.

 

Re: Re: heel-toe downshifting

I find I have to try different techniques for current cars. In my old Miata (a track only car) I would brake with my heel and blip the throttle with my toes. In my STI on the street I do this:



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

yea heel-toe is a misnomer. use the side of your foot, not your heel.

also you should NEVER let the engine do the braking, that's what brakes are for. it is easier and cheaper to replace your brake pads :tup:

 

also you should NEVER let the engine do the braking, that's what brakes are for. it is easier and cheaper to replace your brake pads :tup:

Engine braking is good for the engine. It also saves gas. What makes you think it's bad?

The stig would know this...

 

I don't actually use the heel. It's more like the right half and left half of the foot. I find that when I'm braking with decent pressure the gas pedal is exactly where it needs to be for "heel-toeing". If you step on the brake with only the left half of your foot there's a good chance your foot will hit the gas pedal.

 

missed the OP's part about knowing how to rev-match. disregard fellas

 

yup hit accelerator pedal with side of foot
I engine brake with rev match all the time before approaching red lights that just turned green or around turns, makes driving more engaging

 

Great, thanks for the insight everyone. I'll give it a shot with the side of my foot and see how it goes.

 

Always hated the pedal placement in the GR. I like the pedals closer together than they are. Its fine if i am wearing running shoes or somethign with a wide sole, but with my thin driving shoes its more work than it should be.

I slipped off the break while blipping the throttle once and almost stuffed it at >90mph. If it were not for the stability control being on I would have for sure.

But yes, as others have said, use the left half of your right foot for the brake and the right half for the gas. I twist my foot to the left (outward until i want to shift then i just twist/roll it in to grab the gas.

 

Some other things to consider...

The shoes that you wear while driving may affect how able you are to engage the accelerator with the side of your foot. Shoes that have stiff soles may not allow you to "bend" your foot in a manner to achieve what you are trying.

The size of your foot may be another limiting factor. Too small or too big.

I have noticed that I prefer my pedals closer to each other than how the STI comes stock. Aftermarket pedals can help here. Some aftermarket pedals are made with a small kick on the accelerator that puts it in a closer proximity to the brake pedal.

Good luck

 

Size of shoe and foot is a big thing. A couple centimeters can make all the difference. Heel-and-toe downshifting really depends on how you're driving and what kind of driving you're doing. If you're on a track, for example, it's more effective to brake with the top part of your foot while shooting the heel over in some manner to blip the throttle, changing gears as necessary. It's better for the engine on the track and by offering an overall smoother lap, you eventually begin dropping seconds (or tenths) off of your lap time. It really is a trick meant more for the track rather than around town. But if you are driving around town and heel-and-toeing, it's good practice. If you're easy with the brakes, side of the foot will work just fine.

On another note, if you take a look at the pedals of a Lancia Delta Integrale Evo 3 (I think it's an Evo 3), you'll see the throttle and brake pedals are positioned at an angle to allow for easier heel-and-toe applications. It's definitely a big thing with rallying and you'll see drifters apply heel-and-toe as well.

 

wait, so whats the point of doing this? i've never heard of it, although i hardly ever do it, i just gently release the clutch whenever i down shift to slow down

 

Re: Re: heel-toe downshifting



It's the fastest way to downshift. You can be 6th to 3rd in matters of seconds. It mainly used in racing. Like other post in this thread..

 

although i never go from 6th to 3rd cuz its only used for dd. should you still do it while down shifting through each gear one by one

 

Re: Re: heel-toe downshifting



Yeah 6-5-4-3 in matters of seconds. Vs the delay with just rev matching.

 

If you don't have wide feet then you need to move the throttle pedal closer to the brake pedal so you can use the side of your foot. Don't use your heel...thats not the way most people do it these days and you can't do it with the STI set up for sure. Believe me i tried when i was first learning how to do it.

look up SRP pedals. SRP Racing - Custom Aluminum Racing Pedals

 

I rev match almost every downshift.

I do it a little different it seems at least for light/medium braking. I point my foot at 2oClock and use the inside arch and heel on the brake and use my baby toe to blip the throttle. Works great for me

 

My problem is that the throttle pedal is so close to the middle console it's nearly impossible to move my right heel in such a way that allows me to blip it while breaking with my toe. It seems like my right ankle hits the console before my heel even makes it to the throttle. I do have relatively large feet, but not monstrous (Size 13 US). I have tried various seating positions, but none have really helped immensely.

Do any of you other GR owners have this problem? Any tips?

Thanks!

No, it's not really heel and toe. You have to use the outer edge of your right foot.

But IMHO, the STI is one of the best heel-toeing cars I have ever driven. The gears are closer, you tend to drive a little bit higher in the rev band than most manuals, not that much, but enough to make it work better. Keep in mind that small RPM differences make less bucking when shifting at higher RPM because the proportion percentage wise is less, so in other cars you might downshift when the RPM's are getting to 1000-1200 or less, the STI I find myself downshifting higher, sometimes as high as 2500-3000 but usually less depending on the situation.

The pedals have good traction, and the placement is... zen, at least for me.

Also very appreciated is the precise shifter. You have to learn how to work it as the arrangement and engagement is a little unusual, but it's near perfect, one of the best I've ever driven, including true RWD cars without any linkage because the lever was directly over the gearbox.

Watch youtube videos.

Then practice with the car not moving.

The try revving it with foot on the brake getting it moving while stopped at a stop sign or red light uphill. It's the same technique, clutch is in, right foot is on brake, light turns green and you blip the throttle, then quickly shift your right foot over the gas to maintain revs as you quickly (but not too quickly) let the clutch out.

Once you get good at that, you're ready to pitch into a corner and do the same thing. Start slow, eventually you will do nothing but.

 

Great thread guys, my dad is a current NASA member and he attends regular NASA events at VIR and once I get my STI I will be entering in those events as well. If I am right they begin teaching you these little techniques in class and the better you are at these little things the quicker you can move up from HPDE 1-4 with 4 being the fastest of the fast as far as street cars go. I plan on driving the car for about 5-6 months before putting it on the track so I can get use to how the car reacts and also work on my heel-toe action.

 

The main purpose of heel toe is stability entering a turn.

 

I also use the side, but the proper way is with the heel. The main reason why using the side is bad, is it is easier for your foot to slip off the brake. There are some amazing examples of heel toe on you tube where it is done properly with the heel. I'm in the group with a size 11 1/2 foot so I use my side.

 

A lot of good tips from the thread. I have done heel-toe for many years (both Track / Street driving). I remember that I was having trouble to put just the right amount of brake/blip when performing heel-toe until I learned this:

During heel-toe, when clutch goes in, I put most of my weight or anchor myself on the clutch pedal with the left foot. I found that it is easy to lose balance of your body when braking with your right foot. As the car slow down, your body weight shift forward and you'll all of the sudden adding weight to the right foot to compensate the movement. By freeing up the right foot and start using my left foot to help balance my body, I found that it helps me to control the brake and blips better.

Hope that helps.

 

Hi All,

I apologize if this isn't the correct subforum for this post. Didn't seem like it fits anywhere else.

I'm a relatively new manual transmission user, and have recently I've been working on my downshifting skills. I'm fine when I can rev-match, downshift, and just let the engine do its braking, but I'm having problems with downshifting while braking.

I understand the "heel-toe" concept to accomplish this:

1) brake with right toe
2) clutch in with left foot (still braking with right toe)
3) shift down (still braking with right toe, clutch still in with left foot)
4) blip throttle with right heel to rev-match (still braking with right toe, clutch still in with left foot)
5) release clutch (still breaking with right toe)
6) repeat 2-5 as needed...

My problem is that the throttle pedal is so close to the middle console it's nearly impossible to move my right heel in such a way that allows me to blip it while breaking with my toe. It seems like my right ankle hits the console before my heel even makes it to the throttle. I do have relatively large feet, but not monstrous (Size 13 US). I have tried various seating positions, but none have really helped immensely.

Do any of you other GR owners have this problem? Any tips?

Thanks!

I didn't read thru this whole thread but if you want to do this correctly you should blip the throttle before putting it in the lower gear, this will save wear on your syncros which is the point of double clutching as opposed to just rev matching which saves the clutch.

 

(race car pedal box)

if your pedal box looks like this ^^^ use your heel

if your pedal box looks like this (below) use the side of your right foot

on a race pedal set up your pedals are pretty much flat with eachother.

for the common car tho, usually the gas is set more in front of the other pedals

 

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-interior/257104-cusco-extended-gas-pedal.html crucial mod

 

Nice. I have the SRP pedals but looks about the same for the gas pedal. My issue during tracking is that when you do threshold braking, not street braking the brake pedal goes below the level of the gas pedal which messes up my heel-toe downshift (toe-toe). I found out that you can adjust the height of the brake pedal which i'm currently messing with but i think i over did it. If you do it you have to adjust the brake light though so it works properly which is a bit tricky.