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Discussion Starter #2
It is often claimed that a PPS system will deliver fluid the same way as a PWM-V. This is an utter lie! Using Aquamist brand as a means of marketing an inferior product, inferring it is the same is "not" honest. Product quality and reliability is not based on a CNC machined gauge. Aquamist doesn't mind a fair competition, we welcome it. I like to explain why I say this based on the reasons below.




Image below is an ideal chart that all progressive delivery system should follow.
Aquamist will track the dotted line within ~5%. We are working to improve this further in the coming years.



As the voltage increase along the horizontal scale (0-5V), you will see a linear flow increase on the vertical scale. A M5 (500cc/min at 250psi) is used for this example. At 2.5V, the flow is exactly at 250cc/min. At 5% error, the flow will deviate by 12.5cc/min on either side of the dotted line. This is what aquamist has achieved to date, with no droplet size increase at the low end due to constant line pressure.




Image below is a PPS (progressive pump speed) system at work. This is not just a
theoretical plot, it is confirmed in real life tests. Immediately you can see the delivery line is far from straight.
At 20% or 50psi, the flow has almost reached 50% of the M5’s maximum flow capacity. The error continues all the way to 100% or 250psi.



According to the above chart, when this system is delivering fluid based on boost pressure or MAF, the error will cause great problem of AFR if the fluid contains high percentage of methanol. It the fluid is water, it will cause overcool and slow down the flame speed too much. This only one of the many problems of PPS system which I will discuss later.

You should have noticed why a PPS is marketed in such as way that the fundamental flaws are covered up with slick, gizmo-orientated presentations.




Image below is a PPS (progressive pump speed) system at work.
Here is recap of the performance of the two systems side-by-side, notice the big difference?



As mentioned before, we don’t mind competition, it is healthy. But using misleading statements such as “Why pay an arm and a leg for … ”
I will continue to reveal the “real difference” of the a PWM-V system against the PPS.​
 

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Frankly the only thing I don't like about your kits is that the cost is way up. Good engineering and it does works as you say it does, it is physic after all. But for the price is not accesible atm. Also, pps system does it job even if on paper it may look like it utterly sucks but in dyno testing and road testing they work.

Still the info that you posted is quite valuable.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What is the real difference between Aquamist and ...

Well, that's easy mate. for one, your kits are twice the price. :D
Frankly the only thing I don't like about your kits is that the cost is way up. Good engineering and it does works as you say it does, it is physic after all. But for the price is not accesible atm. Also, pps system does it job even if on paper it may look like it utterly sucks but in dyno testing and road testing they work.

Still the info that you posted is quite valuable.
Gentlemen,

I don't think have have read anything I posted on the " ...budget" thread. I have been trying to tell everyone the HFS-v10 - a fully PWM-V
progressive kit is $645.00!

Nickcrsx: tell me who makes a progressive kit (with failsafe and gauge) costing half of $645.00? Not coolingmist for sure.

A PWM-V system is a much better system than any PPS system - even Mr coolingmist said so.
 

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Gentlemen,

I don't think have have read anything I posted on the " ...budget" thread. I have been trying to tell everyone the HFS-v10 - a fully PWM-V
progressive kit is $645.00!

Nickcrsx: tell me who makes a progressive kit (with failsafe and gauge) costing half of $645.00? Not coolingmist for sure.

A PWM-V system is a much better system than any PPS system - even Mr coolingmist said so.
Mr. Coolingmist did NOT say a PWM-V system is much better system than any PPS system. Im sorry you would stoop so low. If you want to liable yourself by making things up, I guess I cant stop you. I said a PWM V system is obviously faster however its overkill. Not everyone is going to be happy with your basement blue light UK special. There are many reasons to buy a kit today and it does not end with Aquamist. Im not going to go over our systems in this thread because this is supposed to be your thread. Here is a thread that discusses both types of systems for anyone that wants to read.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-meth-injection-nitrous-intercooler-cooling/175826-budget-meth-kit-alternatives.html

For the record, if you want me to stay out of your threads dont mention our name or make implications that are not true towards us and I will be glad to.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Mr. Coolingmist did NOT say a PWM-V system is much better system than any PPS system. Im sorry you would stoop so low. If you want to liable yourself by making things up, I guess I cant stop you. I said a PWM V system is obviously faster however its overkill. Not everyone is going to be happy with your basement blue light UK special. There are many reasons to buy a kit today and it does not end with Aquamist. Im not going to go over our systems in this thread because this is supposed to be your thread. Here is a thread that discusses both types of systems for anyone that wants to read.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-meth-injection-nitrous-intercooler-cooling/175826-budget-meth-kit-alternatives.html

For the record, if you want me to stay out of your threads dont mention our name or make implications that are not true towards us and I will be glad to.
Please stay out of my thread.
 

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Are you sure you never said:

"... PWM-V system is much better system than any PPS system..."
If I said our old S-HSV from 2006 PWM-V was better than our old PPS that was released in 2005, it was NOT meant to be applied to your kits in 2009. What I said about OUR products back in 2007 was not meant to promote your products.

You are implying that I said your system is better than ours and that is liable. Taking things out of context is something you are very good at.

Why not post the link to what I supposedly said. You are such an expert I would like to see it.

CM
 

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Gentlemen,

I don't think have have read anything I posted on the " ...budget" thread. I have been trying to tell everyone the HFS-v10 - a fully PWM-V
progressive kit is $645.00!

Nickcrsx: tell me who makes a progressive kit (with failsafe and gauge) costing half of $645.00? Not coolingmist for sure.

A PWM-V system is a much better system than any PPS system - even Mr coolingmist said so.
Yes and I took a decition based on the fact that I needed a controller, not a full blown kit. I'm not arguiing the merits of a valved control system, i'm arguing that even an Aem kit that cost me about 340 bucks did its job in a rather flawless way. Now I went wit the safety futures that was offered to me because it was easy to use and acomplished what I was looking for at a dam grate price. In my case you didn't have what I was looking for and you know that I asked a few questions and looked at your HFSV1 manual and the fact that I had to modify the board to change the NO or NC behavior of the failsafe output kinda drove me away. Apart from the $645.00.

Still like your products and I'm happy with my decisions.
 

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This **** is kinda funny really.

Clearly you two are just a bunch of engineers with NO SALES EXPERIENCE AT ALL. Let me guess, your next statement is - "the product sells itself"

If I were the salesmen in this case, I would never reply with some silly *** remark. Sometimes, the best reply is no reply AT ALL.

Aquamist - Your kits are very nice, and have set a standard for the meth industry. But your monopoly over the market seems to be at an end. Regardless of technology, you need to cater to the masses. Its silly to think that every single IWSTI member is going to sit here and read the difference between PWVSSWHOCARES? We want a meth kit, we want it to make us Faster/run safer. And we WANT IT AT a fair price. Sitting in these threads and running off about better technology isn't going to win your business any more customers. In fact, your already tarnishing your brand loyalty. Just continue to do what you do best, and if coolingmist starts to fail, then you can come out of the woodwork. (Although, even then i wouldn't say anything)

Coolingmist- You have marketed a kit very well. Its well priced. It has a purpose for the masses. Your "go to market" strategy is almost perfect and your customer service is spot on. But seriously negating anything aquamist says is uncool. It makes you both look silly. I mean, you don't see Devilsown guy ****ting on your threads?

Anyways. just my 02 cents. Both great products. One at a different product life cycle than the other. Just keep on improving your products. Passion and competition are good, and great for everyone. Just keep your eye on the prize and off these silly bickering threads.

Cheers,
Nick
 

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Coolingmist- You have marketed a kit very well. Its well priced. It has a purpose for the masses. Your "go to market" strategy is almost perfect and your customer service is spot on. But seriously negating anything aquamist says is uncool. It makes you both look silly. I mean, you don't see Devilsown guy ****ting on your threads?

Cheers,
Nick
Nick,

I never would have gone in this thread, but he mentioned our name in a way used to promote his product. I cant let that slide. he can promote his products all day long I would not come in this thread if he leaves me out of it.

CM
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
... In my case you didn't have what I was looking for and you know that I asked a few questions and looked at your HFSV1 manual and the fact that I had to modify the board to change the NO or NC behavior of the failsafe output kinda drove me away. Apart from the $645.00.

Still like your products and I'm happy with my decisions.
If you take more time to read the HFS-1 v10 manual again, it "does't" need any modification to change the NO or NC behavior.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
This **** is kinda funny really.

Clearly you two are just a bunch of engineers with NO SALES EXPERIENCE AT ALL. Let me guess, your next statement is - "the product sells itself"

If I were the salesmen in this case, I would never reply with some silly *** remark. Sometimes, the best reply is no reply AT ALL.

Aquamist - Your kits are very nice, and have set a standard for the meth industry. But your monopoly over the market seems to be at an end. Regardless of technology, you need to cater to the masses. Its silly to think that every single IWSTI member is going to sit here and read the difference between PWVSSWHOCARES? We want a meth kit, we want it to make us Faster/run safer. And we WANT IT AT a fair price. Sitting in these threads and running off about better technology isn't going to win your business any more customers. In fact, your already tarnishing your brand loyalty. Just continue to do what you do best, and if coolingmist starts to fail, then you can come out of the woodwork. (Although, even then i wouldn't say anything)
.
.
.

Nick
Nick,

Thanks for the birds eye view of this thread.

Aquamist will constantly use whatever new techniques to enhance their product, even it means it cost more engineering time and the final product price. Until you own an Aquamist product you will see us from a more sympathetic standpoint.

We will never build a product to a meet a price in order to serve the masses. If we did, we will let all our new and old customers down. You will notice there are people out there who like to know the physics and enginnering work behind the Aquamist product.

On the "...budget" thread. I have given my best shot, informing the poster that HFS-v10 is the closest alternative to the HFS-6, at a price difference of $300. Explaining the merit of a PWM-V technology. After that post, I believe is post #18, everything just went South.

I decided to start another thread it appeared it is heading the same way soon.
 
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