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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I have a friend who thinks an E46 M3 and Vette will run circles around an STi and Evo. What does everyone else think and why?

I told him it depends on what we get, but I would say (depending on the road course) that the Evo and STi would beat an M3 and Vette pretty easily if the drivers were the same. Any input?

I've checked www.racingflix.com and they have a JDM video of 2 M3s, 2Evos, and 2 360s. The Evo GSR won, then the 360 manual..etc..etc..
 
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What kind of racing are we talking about?

Autocross:
The Vette and the STi/EVO's would typically race in two different classes. The class is determined by engine size and then by Stock, Modified, or "Anything Goes", Open class. The details are a bit more complicated, but that is the jist of it.

I have seen Vette's smoked by Miatas, but that has to do with the driver and the course, which is different for each competition.

I don't know squat about drag, except that I won't be drag racing my STi. It is not made for clutch dumping at High RPM.

My .02
 

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Anyone is one the list around MD, DC, VA?

I would say that the M3/STi comparo is more valid than the Vette/STi comparo. The Vette is a purpose-built sports car. 2 seats, big V-8. The person that buys the Vette likely didn't even consider the STi or M3, and conversely the M3 and STi buyers likely don't consider the Vette. However, I know I considered both the M3 and the S4 when I was looking at the WRX. The M3 and the STi are both performance sedans, and damn good ones. However, the E46 M3 has gotten chunky and lost a bit of its edge. At this point, I am going to go out on a limb and say that the US STi is going to come over with 280 HP. The M3 makes 333 HP. However, the M3 weighs 3415 lbs. The current WRX weighs 3085 with a manual transmission, and I don't see the STi being much heavier. It may actually be lighter if we get the aluminum suspension bits and the like. So the M3 has to move 10.26 lbs. per HP, and the STi has to move 11.02 lbs. per HP. That's pretty darn close. On dry pavement, the two cars are going to be nearly identical in a straight line. On wet pavement or snow, the STi will smoke the M3. The only place where the M3 will likely have an advantage is in tripple digit speed numbers, where raw HP plays more of a role than power to weight ratios. Now, get a spec C ECU and you're talking 300 HP easy in the STi. Guess what... 10.26 lbs. per HP. Muchos grins. Now, in corners, the STi has 335 lbs. less to move around. Combine that with the AWD, and it will likely out-handle the M3 as well. Finally, consider that the STi will likely retail for $30-32k nicely equipped. The M3 starts at $47,195 with no options, and I have yet to talk to someone who got one without paying a ridiculous $5-8k dealer markup. So, you're essentially looking at 2 cars with almost identical performance. Once has leather and costs $60k. The other doesn't, but costs half as much.

I know what my choice would be. ;)

Just my $0.02.

J.B.
WRXtra.com
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What kind of racing are we talking about?
Both really. Basically, I argued that the STi and Evo are better all around sports cars than the M3 or Vette..especially when price is considered. I know the STi and Evo have relatively short gearing and not nearly as much hp as the Vette or M3, so it might not do as well drag racing.

PS..I'm with you..no drags for me. :D

jb...I agree with you. I just wanted to see what others thought on this board. I acknowledge that the Vette and M3 are very, very nice sports cars. I would even go so far as some of the best in the world stock, but the price differential is much too high between either STi/Evo and Vette/M3. He also argued that both the M3 and Vette will hold their value better and have better styling. I agreed with him on that, except I don't think the Vette has any better (probably worse) depreciation/reliability than the STi/Evo. Any thoughts?
 

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You guys are always talking about how bad it is to drag race with AWD. I was wondering if it's just the launching thats so hard on the drivetrain. So if I were to go drag racing, which I'm sure I will, if I don't launch too hard am I going to be hurting the car (badly)?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, the launch is especially bad for AWD cars...but.....

When you drive down the 1/4 each time you shift you are really stressing the drivetrain. Imagine a pretty powerful RWD or FWD car, I'm sure you have driven one if you peruse this board. So, you're driving this powerful 2wd car and each time you shift when really "getting on it" you chirp the tires. If you've driven a really powerful 2wd car then you do more than chirp the tires, but you actually have the tires break loose in second and possibly third. The same can be said of the STi or other AWD vehicles..except instead of the tires taking a lot of the stress, the drivetrain is b/c the tires might not be chirping or letting loose..they are delivering the power to the ground.

You get very good 1/4 times b/c you don't have much, if any, traction loss, but you wreak havock on your car. Even if the tranny would be strong enough to hold up against that, the limited slips, the drive shafts, etc aren't and eventually they are gonna give.
 
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Talk to Adam at Evolution imports

All right, look if I were going to drag my STi this is what I would experiment with.

Get some used wheels mounted with pizza cutters and quietly test them out in private somewhere. Be prepared to take some heckling, but with the right combination I think you can get some great launches and still protect your drive train. It will look a bit funny, but so what!

my .02
 

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The few times I have gone to the strip, I switched to my snow tires (Dunlop M2's). You're right, people do look at you funny, but they offer just enough slip on dry pavement to "cushion" the drivetrain. I would never do a hard launch on my S2 Pole Positions.

J.B.
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you considered the m3 and the wrx side by side???? those cars are in two differnent classes as far as i'm concerened. it's more like mustand gt and wrx. m3vaudi s4 maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
you considered the m3 and the wrx side by side???? those cars are in two differnent classes as far as i'm concerened. it's more like mustand gt and wrx. m3vaudi s4 maybe.
No..no..no...the M3 vs the STi or Evo...not the WRX..
 
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