[T3RMIN4L]

Glad for all Tests and Information

Anyone have info on some good aftermarket TMIC's for the STI? Im interested in boosting 16psi max if I can find a good ECU solution. This will not happen for some time but would like to be prepared for that setup. Also, I do understand the gains of the FMIC but wish to keep it to TMIC.

 

[Agent Chobos]

The JDM STi IC is still bigger than ours. I think the JDM STi (still a 2.0) pushes at least 16 psi stock, probably more. This might be a good choice, plus you can stay with factory parts.

 

[CloNeGTS]

Yeah, besides the JDM TM, we've got one heck of an intercooler. I'm going to wager that is doesn't need to be changed out until power levels get slightly crazy.

 

[chawklit]

I'm just curious, but is it theoretically possible to have both a tmic and a fmic. I just thought to myself, "Why not?"

 

[CloNeGTS]

You could do it, but it wouldn't do anything for ya. And the additional piping would absolutely kill the system.

 

[Pizzo]

I'm just curious, but is it theoretically possible to have both a tmic and a fmic. I just thought to myself, "Why not?"

A few reasons.

A front mount will, in theory, get you better flow than a top mount. To have good volumetric efficiency, it's good to have air passing freely both in front of and BEHIND any heat exchanger. The TMIC w/hood scoop provides adequate flow in front of the intercooler, but IMO, flow could be better behind it, not to mention the heat from inside the engine bay would heat soak the IC in no time.

This is why the aftermarket prefers a front mount. Granted, with a FMIC, you may get more pressure drop from more elaborate piping, but IAT's (intake air temperature) should go down more towards ambient than you would get with even the best TMIC.

Pressure drop is your enemy, as is high IAT's. I could go on about intercooler theory all afternoon, but IMO, the best setup would be a decent sized front mount (not big enough to get huge pressure drop, but enough to cool that IAT's down) coupled with water injection post-core to drop temps down to ambient. That's what I'm doing, anyway. But, I could be wrong.

 

[crazytrain]

Any thoughts on air-to water intercooler upgrades? You could have a radiator for the water mounted up front, and get the best of both worlds (I guess?). If you did that, could you refrigerate the water through the A/C system to get a better cooling effect?

 

[Grant]

Problem with FMICs is it blocks and heats up airflow to the radiator. On MK4 Supras, this is enough to make some of them overheat on track days with the stock radiator. Most FMICs do an amazing job of cooling the intake air, one person measured IATs within 10 degrees of ambient at 29 psi of boost and a 1100ci core (GReddy 3-row). Of course this wasn't for a very long pull, but thats still pretty damn good.

One company (APS) makes a TMIC for the WRX thats 677ci. Also, since the TMIC flows top-to-bottom, it should flow VERY well compared to a long and skinny FMIC. That is IF the end tanks are designed well enough to even distribute the airflow across the plates (or rows, whatever you want to call them). Given that a lot of Supra guys (remember its a 3L) have luck with 720ci cores, I think I'd try the biggest TMIC and maybe make some ducts for it before a FMIC. But I dunno, its been a while since I've looked under the hood of a WRX, dunno if you can duct anything.

Edit: Eek, the bottom end tank on the TMICs doesn't look like it flows too well though!

 

[hatchy]

You may be able to more power by making a better heat shield for the turbo. I'll take a temp reading later today, but the intercooler gets very hot on the passenger's side, whereas the driver's side is much cooler.

 

[Guru]

The STi intercooler is completely worthless. It's driving me nuts to have to cool the car off every 3 dyno runs due to heat soak. Trust me, dump it and get a proper front mount.

 

[CloNeGTS]

Really? Is this just an issue with dyno testing, or will the unit never properly cool under driving conditions?

What are you doing for airflow during dyno that isn't working?

 

[Guru]

I have 3X 3500 CFM super fans blowing, one directed and channeled on the IC itself. I've never had as many problems with keeping that thing cool as I have had on this STi.

 

[Pizzo]

Idiot Auto Reviewer: Bitter about being smoked by a WRX??

I have 3X 3500 CFM super fans blowing, one directed and channeled on the IC itself. I've never had as many problems with keeping that thing cool as I have had on this STi.

That's a damn relief.

Looking at the design of it, I was having a hard time figuring out where the best place to mount water injection nozzles would be. Although there's sure to be less pressure drop with stock, that's what bigger turbos are for, right?

And besides, the thing can't be THAT efficient, look at those end tanks and how close it is to the exhaust manifold and turbo, fer christ's sake! We're never gonna get intake air temps below ambient that way! :evil:

 

[murley]

Maybe that's the specific reason that the STi has an I/C spray...

 

[hatchy]

How about just a bigger TMIC? Porsche uses TMIC in the 911s and they seem to work fine.

The black one is stock, the larger one is aftermarket.

 

[Pizzo]

How about just a bigger TMIC? Porsche uses TMIC in the 911s and they seem to work fine.

Well, if I may talk out of my ass for a minute, it doesn't seem like a TMIC is the best solution for the Sti.

In the 911 it works because the added pressure drop in plumbing an intercooler to the front of a rear engined car isn't feasible, attractive or, in all probability, a viable solution to the AIT issue.

Considering the Scooby has a front mounted boxer, as opposed to the 911 rear engine, an FMIC solution has been proven to work. You only have so much space to work with under there, and ultimately, the heat from the motor, especially the exhaust manifold and turbo (read:hot as Satan's nipple) will only leand to earlier heat soak. This isn't even mentioning the direct airflow that you get from a FMIC and don't tell me about how the hood scoop helps the TMIC work better. Those that have been down the road of forcing air onto a heat exchanger know that a perpendicular flow path is better than trying to force the oncoming air to change direction through a hood scoop onto a FMIC.

I'd rather have an efficient FMIC design coupled with water injection in this case...but water injection's a whole other post.

Okay, I'm done talking out of my ass about theory now.

8)

 

[hatchy]

That wasn't my point The fact that some porsches make 450hp and in some cases 600whp while still using TMIC, I think that perhaps a large (like 1.5 to 2x larger) TMIC would work for the STI as well. But I dont know of anyone who has gone this route, everyones goes FMIC.

How about just a bigger TMIC? Porsche uses TMIC in the 911s and they seem to work fine.

Well, if I may talk out of my ass for a minute, it doesn't seem like a TMIC is the best solution for the Sti.

In the 911 it works because the added pressure drop in plumbing an intercooler to the front of a rear engined car isn't feasible, attractive or, in all probability, a viable solution to the AIT issue.

Considering the Scooby has a front mounted boxer, as opposed to the 911 rear engine, an FMIC solution has been proven to work. You only have so much space to work with under there, and ultimately, the heat from the motor, especially the exhaust manifold and turbo (read:hot as Satan's nipple) will only leand to earlier heat soak. This isn't even mentioning the direct airflow that you get from a FMIC and don't tell me about how the hood scoop helps the TMIC work better. Those that have been down the road of forcing air onto a heat exchanger know that a perpendicular flow path is better than trying to force the oncoming air to change direction through a hood scoop onto a FMIC.

I'd rather have an efficient FMIC design coupled with water injection in this case...but water injection's a whole other post.

Okay, I'm done talking out of my ass about theory now.

8)

 

[Guru]

I've dyno tested and tuned many WRX's with FMIC's and TMIC's. No doubt about it, the FMIC's make WAY more power every time. In fact I'm not sure if upgrading the TMIC is really worth it. I find the stock upper mount is just fine up to a certain level of power. If you don't want to go FMIC, I say leave your stock one and work on other parts of your car to improve instead. In the end it is all about HP/dollar ratio.

 

[Pizzo]

I've dyno tested and tuned many WRX's with FMIC's and TMIC's. No doubt about it, the FMIC's make WAY more power every time. In fact I'm not sure if upgrading the TMIC is really worth it. I find the stock upper mount is just fine up to a certain level of power. If you don't want to go FMIC, I say leave your stock one and work on other parts of your car to improve instead. In the end it is all about HP/dollar ratio.

Dan, offtopic for a second, what do you think of this whole pinging thing people are talking about over on nasioc?

 

[hatchy]

I see what you are saying, but I haven't seen a TMIC that is as large as the FMIC yet... I wonder, if someone were to make one, if it would make more power? I guess there is a reason why no one has done it... but looking at the plumbing for the FMIC, it looks like there would be significant lag and more pressure drop, and I am not crazy about removing the bumper support, cutting the bumper, etc.

I've dyno tested and tuned many WRX's with FMIC's and TMIC's. No doubt about it, the FMIC's make WAY more power every time. In fact I'm not sure if upgrading the TMIC is really worth it. I find the stock upper mount is just fine up to a certain level of power. If you don't want to go FMIC, I say leave your stock one and work on other parts of your car to improve instead. In the end it is all about HP/dollar ratio.