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As stated the factory TMIC is really good and out performs many aftermarket bar/plate setups. Until your pushing enough power 450-500 whp to go FMIC leave it be.
Do you know how the process west TMIC compares to the factory TMIC? I have seen it offer a small performance gain with a dyno tune, although perhaps due to its thicker size it takes longer to cool down once heat soaked?
 

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19 STi Spoolinator kit (catted) with a GTX3576-R Gen 2 on E85. Sleeved, built engine, stock cams, bowl blend, Killer B Header, Cobb intake, and Killer B Turbo Inlet should sum up the power mods. Our dyno reads super low, this setup previously made 597whp on another shops Mustang Dyno. It's our top tier KBM spec engine, but for this car it's primarily a dyno mule. Has a couple hundred dyno pulls on it so far; more dyno miles than street, lol
 

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19 STi Spoolinator kit (catted) with a GTX3576-R Gen 2 on E85. Sleeved, built engine, stock cams, bowl blend, Killer B Header, Cobb intake, and Killer B Turbo Inlet should sum up the power mods. Our dyno reads super low, this setup previously made 597whp on another shops Mustang Dyno. It's our top tier KBM spec engine, but for this car it's primarily a dyno mule. Has a couple hundred dyno pulls on it so far; more dyno miles than street, lol
Dyno graph?
 

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This one goes back about a year when we were doing turbo comparison testing. It's missing a few mods compared to how it sits now, and those are all on the OEM TMIC. This was done on our very low reading Mustang Dyno.

Rectangle Slope Font Line Plot



To give you an idea of how low our dyno reads, that same setup/engine/turbo on Prime Motoring's Mustang Dyno on our shop GR back several years...

Rectangle Font Slope Parallel Pattern
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Do you know how the process west TMIC compares to the factory TMIC? I have seen it offer a small performance gain with a dyno tune, although perhaps due to its thicker size it takes longer to cool down once heat soaked?
It only fits WRX models and perhaps old generations STIs. Unique concept intercoolers nevertheless. Oddly enough Australian made.
 

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This one goes back about a year when we were doing turbo comparison testing. It's missing a few mods compared to how it sits now, and those are all on the OEM TMIC. This was done on our very low reading Mustang Dyno.

View attachment 63778


To give you an idea of how low our dyno reads, that same setup/engine/turbo on Prime Motoring's Mustang Dyno on our shop GR back several years...

View attachment 63779
Awesome! Thanks for posting.
 

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dang that much on a stock tmic. i had no idea they were that high quality. are the newer ones any different than the older?
 

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Can someone also comment on the FMIC's potential of blocking some air flow to the radiator/cooling system or is this a non-issue? From a purely academic/analytical POV of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
Through a humble research I recently did, I came to a subjective conclusion that is a FMIC is crucial (at least in my case).

1- I've talked to a couple of 2015+ STI owners who had ringland failure, I investigated and it turned out they:
a- Ran stock TMIC. b- Used 5W30 engine oil. c- Drove in an extraordinary hot climate.
2- I've seen a 2015+ WRX (dealership spare/backup car) (obviously bone stock) that had the same problem, possible reasons:
a- Ran stock TMIC. b- Abusive driving from careless clients. c- Drove in an extraordinary hot climate.

I'm not here to argue against killerbmotorsport or anyone else (they are undoubtedly highly experienced and educated in the field way more than I am and I learn from them great deal of things)
All I'm saying is I've observed some real life examples, discussed them, then came to a conclusion;
my conclusion is: TMIC performance is compromised in EXTREME HOT CLIMATE and eventually leads to piston failure due to extreme hot air getting into cylinders. It sure may not be the only factor as I previously stated. Not to mention the pistons themselves are questionable.

Now, I'm looking for a good FMIC (with specific features in mind) to purchase but that is a separate topic.
 

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Now, I'm looking for a good FMIC (with specific features in mind) to purchase but that is a separate topic.
Research is good, but data is better. Everything you're saying here is unsubstantiated. If you were to base your decision on "which engines have more failures, FMIC or TMIC". You would definitely not want a FMIC! W-A-Y more engines out there blown up with FMIC than TMIC. Although, that mostly has to do with power levels, tuning, end so on. Not intercooler choice.

The data is just numbers. It's doesn't lie. If you want what's best for you, you need the most efficient intercooler, with the least pressure drop. This is going to be different for everyone, which is why we gave debates like this based on products and people making generalized statements based on their own experiences. "I ran 40psi on my Ebay FMIC without problems for 2 years" is not a quantitative data point.

At Killer B we've run both OEM, aftermarket, and our own designed FMICs and TMICs, many different turbos and setups, from stock to +700whp. Results are not always what you expect, but the data never lies.

"Extreme Hot Climate" means different things for different people: Stuck in traffic all the time. Super high humidity. Extreme ambient heat. High thermal load (turbo, oil cooler, A/C, etc.) it varies by application. If you have a trifecta of conditions then using a FMIC is not always the best choice as it then compromises radiator and oil cooling performance. It's always a balance, and always a application specific answer.
 

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Not better than stock. On some applications (Generations) a bit worse. I would recommend a VA OEM over the verti.
Thanks, that's interesting. Being a F1 fan I know aerodynamics is a black art so wasn't sure if there were any real world benefits to the Verticooler design. No proper or convincing tests I could find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
Research is good, but data is better. Everything you're saying here is unsubstantiated. If you were to base your decision on "which engines have more failures, FMIC or TMIC". You would definitely not want a FMIC! W-A-Y more engines out there blown up with FMIC than TMIC. Although, that mostly has to do with power levels, tuning, end so on. Not intercooler choice.

The data is just numbers. It's doesn't lie. If you want what's best for you, you need the most efficient intercooler, with the least pressure drop. This is going to be different for everyone, which is why we gave debates like this based on products and people making generalized statements based on their own experiences. "I ran 40psi on my Ebay FMIC without problems for 2 years" is not a quantitative data point.

At Killer B we've run both OEM, aftermarket, and our own designed FMICs and TMICs, many different turbos and setups, from stock to +700whp. Results are not always what you expect, but the data never lies.

"Extreme Hot Climate" means different things for different people: Stuck in traffic all the time. Super high humidity. Extreme ambient heat. High thermal load (turbo, oil cooler, A/C, etc.) it varies by application. If you have a trifecta of conditions then using a FMIC is not always the best choice as it then compromises radiator and oil cooling performance. It's always a balance, and always a application specific answer.
I appreciate the time you took to reply. Sure data speak louder than other means (surveys, questionnaires, personal experiences), which made me initially affirmed that the whole point was a personal conviction.

I understand there are plenty of complicated reasons to be taken into account, on top of them
tuning, which may or may not lead to ringland failure, depending on how skillful a tuner is.

However, the real life examples I mentioned were all STOCK, stock power, stock turbos, stock intercoolers and stock TUNE. My tuner repeatedly says TMIC (alone) is a good enough reason to compromise reliability/longevity (again in extreme hot climate) such as GCC countries where I live (Saudi Arabia to be specific) where all the said circumstances are there; stuck in traffic, super high humidity, extreme ambient heat, high thermal load.
FMIC may not prevent ringland failure from happening but wouldn't you agree it helps mitigate the possibility of it happening? along with other modifications e.g. AOS, 4th cylinder coolant kit, etc?

No wonder Subaru decided to mount the IC on top of the engine as it is a utilization of the room provided by the boxer configuration which, in turn, never compromises radiator and oil cooling performance as it is the case in other cars with OEM FMIC (Evos for example) but once again, many are NOT convinced (me included) it is a wise decision to run TMIC in extreme hot climate.
To avoid blocking radiator, one should look for small core FMICs such as:
Turboxs, PRL or Process West (KillerB is discontinued if I'm not mistaken), plus aftermarket oil cooler, and search for the best fitment, that is my best bet. Worth noting, that I'm running stock turbo/boost, injectors and internals, and planning to keep her like so. Basic bolt-ons are pretty much all I have installed, as well as EcuTek tune of course.
 
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