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Discussion Starter #1
Ever since all these magazine reviews came out, I have been battling with an issue of getting an EVO instead of STi. Based on the 5-6 reviews that I have read, the US versions of these two cars appear to be very different from each other, perhaps more than ever before. The EVO handles better, has almost neutral steering, quicker steering ratio, better brakes. It appears to be as close to a track car as a street legal car will get. On the other hand, Subaru's car is much closer to a "muscle car" or a “drag racer” with its larger engine and higher HP rating. It is faster in a straight line, and will probably become even quicker once the tuners get their hands on it and untap the potential of extra 0.5 liter and lower stock boost levels.

Below are some of MY opinions and conclusions that are driving me towards purchasing the EVO.

- I put more value on handling and go-cart type feel instead of pure straight line acceleration.
- EVO feels lighter on its feet and its very predictable.
- No massive hood scoop. The “bird-catcher” in the STi reminds me too much of the "muscle car" look (which I hate).
- The wing, despite its size, actually looks good.
- Overall, the exterior is nicer with its “sharper” lines.

Last week, I test drove ‘04 WRX for the first time so I could get a feel for the Impreza. I wasn’t too impressed to be honest. Hated the steering wheel (too big), I wasn’t thrilled about the seating position as well as the sound of the boxer engine. Hopefully, Sti is different in these areas.

Today I decided to call a few Mitsu dealers to see if I could check out the EVO in person. Found a place that had a black one in stock and sells at MSRP. First, I did a long visual inspection and found the following:
- The exterior qualities mentioned above were confirmed.
- The altezzas look “ok” with black exterior.
- The recaros are just awesome.
- The interior quality, although cheap looking, is not as bad as I thought (I had my wife with me and she was actually ok with it).
- Back seats have more head room than the WRX.

After that I managed to convince the sales manager to let me take it out on a short test drive (few minutes around the block). My initial thoughts were the following:
- The ride is not as harsh as the mags were portraying it. It all depends on what you’re driving now. My current car is pretty stiff and the change wasn’t very noticeable. I can easily live with this car as a daily driver.
- Not much is happening until the turbo spools up and then it’s just “instant rush”. The car just takes off.
- The shifter is very smooth.
- Someone mentioned that they did not like the way the clutch felt. I actually liked it as it was closer to my current car. For me, WRX would take a lot of getting used to.
- And last, the engine sounds great at high rpms. I have always been a fan of the inline four sound. Many people love the boxer sound, but like I said above the WRX just didn’t cut for me.

That’s all I managed to observe before the salesperson got “nervous” and asked me to go back.

Since I am 99% convinced, I will go with the EVO, does anyone want my spot on the Sti waiting list? I am #2 in line in the Northern Virginia area.
 

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both cars excellent, cant go wrong.. Hopyfully someone form here willt ake your spot and it wont go to waste..
good luck..
 

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Wojo,

I've been going over the same dilemma myself. I think the evidence is clear that the STi suspension is set up very conservatively, and its steering is not nearly as quick as the EVO. However, consider the following:

1) Autocrossing teaches us that 1/8" of toe out or a half a degree of camber can make a night-and-day difference on things like turn-in and steering feel.

2) The understeer thing can probably be corrected with a new set of swaybars (~$250). This was an issue with the WRX as well....

3) Some reviewers have actually given the braking nod to the STi over the EVO. Significantly, Top Gear claims that the EVO suffers from fade after a few hot laps.

4) The STi has better diffs and more active controls. The fact that the driveline can overcome understeer in mid-corner is impressive.

5) This is probably the most important: the EVO is pinging on pump gas at 19psi. Add Vishnu's stage zero (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer_stage_zero.htm) and you'll be risking your warranty coverage. The STi is only at 14.5psi--there's lots of potential there without big upgrades.

So I feel your pain, but handling is a much easier thing to tune than the engine. The EVO will always suffer from turbo lag at low RPM and until they release the AYC in the US it will have a less sophisticated driveline. I think the only deal-breaker on the STi is the steering ratio, but as I said a little alignment tweaking can help you out a bunch there. Maybe an aftermarket steering rack as well? Any way you cut it, it's less expensive than a new turbo/intercooler...

Don't give up your STi spot yet. If anything, sit on it for a few weeks until you get a chance to ride in an STi and compare.

-ch
 

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wojo,
i purchased a evo about a month ago. I was thinking of waiting for the Sti also. I've been more than happy with the evo. I probably would have been happy with either one.

i think it will be easier to spend a little and get the evo over 300hp than to get the sti to handle as well as the evo.

if you can't get 93-94 pump gas you will lose a little perfomance in the evo.

Sport Compact mag quotes Mit as saying the ECU mapping is all they changed to get within US emmisions and consequently loosing 35-40 hp.

I'm not that interested in 1/4 mile and 0-60 times as i would rather drive a twisty road than race 1/4 mile.

I would say you can't really go wrong with either but i've been happy with my decision and can spend the extra $ getting the evo power up a bit.

take care
 

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Discussion Starter #5
mojo said:
if you can't get 93-94 pump gas you will lose a little perfomance in the evo.
93 - Not a problem in my area, 94 also available thanks to Sunoco

mojo said:
I'm not that interested in 1/4 mile and 0-60 times as i would rather drive a twisty road than race 1/4 mile.
My thoughts excalty
 

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Good points above, I just want to add one thing... don't base your choice on just reviews and before a test drive. It might take a while, but you waited this long might as well wait a little longer instead of jumping and being sorry later. I can understand getting impatient especailly with a nice EVO right in front of you, but I just think there are too many reasons to wait for an STi to at least give it a shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
hyperion said:
Wojo,

I've been going over the same dilemma myself. I think the evidence is clear that the STi suspension is set up very conservatively, and its steering is not nearly as quick as the EVO. However, consider the following:

1) Autocrossing teaches us that 1/8" of toe out or a half a degree of camber can make a night-and-day difference on things like turn-in and steering feel.

2) The understeer thing can probably be corrected with a new set of swaybars (~$250). This was an issue with the WRX as well....

3) Some reviewers have actually given the braking nod to the STi over the EVO. Significantly, Top Gear claims that the EVO suffers from fade after a few hot laps.

4) The STi has better diffs and more active controls. The fact that the driveline can overcome understeer in mid-corner is impressive.

5) This is probably the most important: the EVO is pinging on pump gas at 19psi. Add Vishnu's stage zero (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer_stage_zero.htm) and you'll be risking your warranty coverage. The STi is only at 14.5psi--there's lots of potential there without big upgrades.

So I feel your pain, but handling is a much easier thing to tune than the engine. The EVO will always suffer from turbo lag at low RPM and until they release the AYC in the US it will have a less sophisticated driveline. I think the only deal-breaker on the STi is the steering ratio, but as I said a little alignment tweaking can help you out a bunch there. Maybe an aftermarket steering rack as well? Any way you cut it, it's less expensive than a new turbo/intercooler...

Don't give up your STi spot yet. If anything, sit on it for a few weeks until you get a chance to ride in an STi and compare.

-ch
I am not quite sure that you could correct STi understeer problem with just a set of new swaybars. Plus my point is that I don't want to be "correcting" anything. I want stock setup to work.

I think that pinging issue on EVO only occurs on less than 93 octane gas. That's not an issue for me.

The beautiful thing about having these 2 cars in the US, is that you will have pros and cons of each, and a lot of people will have a different opinion that mine. I am just going with the car that satisfies my needs better in its stock form. Oh and by the way, since I just bought a condo (i.e. $$$ flush) I don't think I will be doing things like Vishnu Stage II kit any time soon.
 

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I agree with your thinking..that is why I bought the Evo. Getting the hp up on an Evo is easy :D The Evo's boost tapers to 16psi after the initail 19psi max at 3500rpm's and the Evo is REAL rich up top (5000-redline). Just by adding an mbc to hold the boost at 19 and optimizing the afr to 12:1 big gains are made...I know of sever Evo's running mid 12's with just that done.
I feel handling is a little trickier to correct. The quicker steering and more nimble feel are also pluses. Not to mention the Recaros are more supportive. I just feel the Sti is more along the lines of some American cars....fast in a straight line but handling may be a bit compromised for a gentler ride. I really like the Sti...but I also couldn't get over the huge scoop and the wing looks a little out of place. The Evo felt roomier than the Wrx also...a plus hauling the wife and kid around :D
 

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hyperion said:
Wojo,


5) This is probably the most important: the EVO is pinging on pump gas at 19psi. Add Vishnu's stage zero (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer_stage_zero.htm) and you'll be risking your warranty coverage. The STi is only at 14.5psi--there's lots of potential there without big upgrades.

So I feel your pain, but handling is a much easier thing to tune than the engine.
-ch
Knock is not an issue on 93 or 94 octane gas however, if I lived in an area with 91 octane only, I would buy an STI as performance on the 4G63 is reduced on low octane gas.

Most tuners would argue that gaining HP is much easier than tuning suspension. :) Improving the steering ratio on the STI could be a big job.
The 4G63 is tank and can and does handle insane boost levels. The 14.5 psi on the STI guarantees nothing until owners get a shot at it. AVC, ECU , turbo size and block strength all factor into elevated boost levels and I paid MSRP for my EVO.



Speedlimit... :)
 

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And don't forget the EVO doesn't have cruise control
:lol: And don't forget the Sti doesn't have a stereo/speakers :D
Is cruise really that big of a deal to people? Every car I've owned I rarely used the cruise...even on long trips. If cruise is a must for anyone..it can be added cheaply. There are several shops in my area that install cruise controls ystems for about $200...my friend just had them put cruise in his Delorean.
 

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broeli said:
And don't forget the EVO doesn't have cruise control
:lol: And don't forget the Sti doesn't have a stereo/speakers :D
Is cruise really that big of a deal to people? Every car I've owned I rarely used the cruise...even on long trips. If cruise is a must for anyone..it can be added cheaply. There are several shops in my area that install cruise controls ystems for about $200...my friend just had them put cruise in his Delorean.
Yep it's a deal breaker for me. Mainly cause I have driven plenty of cars with out it on long trips. Most people replace stereos all the time in their cars. Not a whole lot of people go around replacing or upgrading thier crusie control.
 

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Most people replace stereos all the time in their cars. Not a whole lot of people go around replacing or upgrading thier crusie control.
SOME people replace stereos...but with the Sti they have to ADD it without choice or pay a premium for a crappy stock one...just as, if you want cruise with the Evo you have to ADD it. I could drive a car alot longer without cruise than without a stereo :D So if cruise was a must I could wait a little bit and then go pay $200 to have it installed. With the Sti I'd be at the local car stereo shop the same day buying/having installed a stereo/speakers. :D
Neither is really that big of a deal to me. Just something for people to fuss over..afterall the Sti and Evo is so good it comes down to small things like that. :D
 

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Everyone's opinion is different. Personally, I find it very disturbing how much people look into the winners and losers of the magazine writeups. These care are SO close in performance they are in essence the same car, only the job gets done in a little different way from the sound of things.

Whatever your guts tell you....that's the right way to go. I've always felt that unless something horrific went wrong in the transition from JDM to USDM, the STi is the only car for me. I'm a Subaru fan through and through.

Again, go for what your gut tells you. Personally, I find it disturbing that people are putting so much blind faith in a few journalists who can apparently drive once in a while. As an indication of this, you even said they have been completely wrong about the stiffness of the EVO. What else are they wrong on?
 

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Every one needs to remember that the STi has only been compared to the Evo in all these mags, so if your battling over which to buy it would make sense to wait and drive both your self or wait untill other cars have been brought into the comparisons, I think that the handling of the STi is more than likely going to be awesome and that if it were compared to another car, all the mags would probably say that the STi's handleing is awesome, and more than capable of tearing up some back mountain twisties, and as for the STi being compared to muscle cars, it is only in throttle response and raw power(and that is where it stops), the STi handles a hundred times better the any muscle car could dream of and would run circles around them.
 

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broeli said:
Most people replace stereos all the time in their cars. Not a whole lot of people go around replacing or upgrading thier crusie control.
SOME people replace stereos...but with the Sti they have to ADD it without choice or pay a premium for a crappy stock one... :D
Sheer nonsense. :roll:

You are already paying a premium in the Evo for a crappy stock one.

No audiophile will keep the factory stereo, you have to remove it to get a real one, in which case you've paid for something useless.
Makes much more sense to have a standard cruise control, although it wouldn't factor into my decision.
 

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Speedlimit said:
hyperion said:
Wojo,


5) This is probably the most important: the EVO is pinging on pump gas at 19psi. Add Vishnu's stage zero (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer_stage_zero.htm) and you'll be risking your warranty coverage. The STi is only at 14.5psi--there's lots of potential there without big upgrades.

So I feel your pain, but handling is a much easier thing to tune than the engine.
-ch
Most tuners would argue that gaining HP is much easier than tuning suspension. :) Improving the steering ratio on the STI could be a big job.

Speedlimit... :)
The steering ratio on the STI is as fast or faster than on Porsche Boxter, Vette, S4, M3, 350Z.....why would you have to change it...just to make it like the Evo? :roll: I do agree that if it's that important to you to have a go-kart steering ratio and handling and go-kart harsh ride quality to match...then you should definitely get the Evo.

As for how easy it is to mod the Evo for power....true, but only within limits. Most people who make big power (350 or more) in the Evo have to swap out the turbo in order to do it.......this means no more twin scroll turbo, which means even more lag. Good luck matching the STI's lag free torque with this method...., again if you don't mind the lag....then the Evo's the obvious choice.
 

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This is just one of the obvious problems with these write ups. Indipendent of the EVO, they would have nothing but good things to say about things like the steering system in the car. But because the EVO is sitting right next to it, the steering is "slow and sloppy". Complete crap.

To the same effect though, the EVO's engine would get nothing but praise without the the STi around. But....same thing, now they say it is laggy, and 'wind up like'.

It's all a damn game. I think anyone who is on the fence about which car is right for them is a few cards short of a full deck if they make their decision before seeing and/or driving both cars. Mag articles and internet discussions are NEVER good bases for making the decision of which car to buy.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
CloNeGTS said:
It's all a damn game. I think anyone who is on the fence about which car is right for them is a few cards short of a full deck if they make their decision before seeing and/or driving both cars. Mag articles and internet discussions are NEVER good bases for making the decision of which car to buy.
This would then include most of the people on this board since none of us have driven the STi. In a perfect world, I would definietly take my time and test drove each car and didn't even look at the magazine reviews. That's what I did with my last purchase. This time is different, I don't want to wait for months until they start allowing Sti test drives. I am using the mag reviews as proxies. I have driven the EVO and a WRX to get closer to an STi feel (some things will be the same)

Noone is calling Sti handling slow and sloppy. It is just not as good as the EVO. Had the EVO not been available, I would be buying STi without hesitation. My choice only comes down to these 2 cars.
 
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