IW STi Forum banner

41 - 60 of 417 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,595 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
Any plans to take it to the track and give it a good 30 minute flogging just to humor us track guys to see if this is a viable option? :)

Did you block off the scoop? I really want to ditch the scoop.
Possible track flogging in the spring. I have a friend who is an HPDE instructor in Houston.

I kept the scoop and have no plans to get rid of it. There's no reason to keep it though. I just think it's part of the character of the car. I do plan to add one of these though:

WRX/STI Hood Scoop Air Diverter Plate

How much did this set up cost you in just parts.
About $1200 after it was all said and done. However that doesn't include the temp meters from Mach V. Those were an extra $500 for the pair but aren't needed for the whole thing to work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
great build! you will find at the track, that your temps will not run any higher because of all the air flow through the car. I think I've written this before on a similar thread but I have a similar setup on my track Lotus and it takes out a whopping 250 degrees with no sweat from the supercharger. A daily driver stuck in traffic is the worst case scenario for this system, but the moment air hits the exchanger temps fall immediately. Keep in mind also I don't even run a reservoir, just a small expansion container for the fluids and that sits slightly above the intercooler core. Good work...makes me want to do it to my 08 -
 

·
I Solve Problems
Joined
·
18,254 Posts
this is starting to get tempting.

I would be tempted to put the heat exchanger in the grill vs. in the main opening up front. That way the biggest opening is still cooling the radiator.

<--really doesn't want his hood scoop anymore :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,805 Posts
this is starting to get tempting.

I would be tempted to put the heat exchanger in the grill vs. in the main opening up front. That way the biggest opening is still cooling the radiator.

<--really doesn't want his hood scoop anymore :lol:
V mount heat exchanger and radiator... :eek2:
 

·
I Solve Problems
Joined
·
18,254 Posts
:lol: The whole point is to not get rid of the current Koyo I have.

I wonder if we could fit a big enough core in the fog light area (Passenger side)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,805 Posts
:lol: The whole point is to not get rid of the current Koyo I have.

I wonder if we could fit a big enough core in the fog light area (Passenger side)
It's a heat exchanger Drew not a small oil cooler..... Get 2 little ones and put them on each side. :lol:
 

·
I Solve Problems
Joined
·
18,254 Posts
It's a heat exchanger Drew not a small oil cooler..... Get 2 little ones and put them on each side. :lol:
Small oil cooler? The greddy core isn't a "small oil cooler". :lol:

Either way, if it's possible that would be ideal for me. I guess the only way to really find out is to do it. :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,805 Posts
Small oil cooler? The greddy core isn't a "small oil cooler". :lol:

Either way, if it's possible that would be ideal for me. I guess the only way to really find out is to do it. :lol:
WARNING: Better man than you have given into the temptation of the DIY AWIC yet only one has succeeded. Some say he is both the Stig and a reincarnated Carol Shelby. Others say he trained Tim Baily how to tune... Below is the path the great one took.


:scurred:

Click:

V
V
V

The point of no return...
 

·
I Solve Problems
Joined
·
18,254 Posts
TG two totally unlreated questions.
how much of a temp change do you attribute to using Water/Meth?

How often would suggest changing the water in the res?

I think it'd be neat to have a "Y" with a valve on the outlet of the pump that would allow the pump to pump "old" water into a "Spec C" Water spray tank that can then be used to spray down the radiator and heat exchangers later, then refill the 2 gallon res with fresh ice water?

This would also create an easy way to to empty the tank without removing it.

Or am I over thinking it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
T-G,

Just wanted to say thanks for such a nice write-up. Very impressive.

I'm wondering if you have every looked at employing a Labjack (U12 | LabJack) for cheap, simple data logging of just about anything you could think of. I would love to see graphs showing Tin and Tout for: throttle body AWIC air, throttle body AWIC water, cold side turbo, front mount AWIC air, front mount AWIC water as they compare to boost and ambient temp. With Labjack software (either OEM, custom or aftermarket) you could easily show realtime IC efficiencies with a few simple formulas. My guess is your AWIC is way better than anything your Spearco was doing, but it would be cool to see it in black and white.

Also, did you consider the Spec C 12L reservoir for the trunk versus the custom deal you fabbed up?

Thanks!

Mitch
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,595 Posts
Discussion Starter #52
TG two totally unlreated questions.
how much of a temp change do you attribute to using Water/Meth?

How often would suggest changing the water in the res?

I think it'd be neat to have a "Y" with a valve on the outlet of the pump that would allow the pump to pump "old" water into a "Spec C" Water spray tank that can then be used to spray down the radiator and heat exchangers later, then refill the 2 gallon res with fresh ice water?

This would also create an easy way to to empty the tank without removing it.

Or am I over thinking it?
Sorry it took so long to answer these questions. The water shouldn't need to be changed unless it gets nasty for some reason. There shouldn't be any reason the water should get "old". However the Spec C tank would make a good reservoir for an AWIC.

T-G,

Just wanted to say thanks for such a nice write-up. Very impressive.

I'm wondering if you have every looked at employing a Labjack (U12 | LabJack) for cheap, simple data logging of just about anything you could think of. I would love to see graphs showing Tin and Tout for: throttle body AWIC air, throttle body AWIC water, cold side turbo, front mount AWIC air, front mount AWIC water as they compare to boost and ambient temp. With Labjack software (either OEM, custom or aftermarket) you could easily show realtime IC efficiencies with a few simple formulas. My guess is your AWIC is way better than anything your Spearco was doing, but it would be cool to see it in black and white.

Also, did you consider the Spec C 12L reservoir for the trunk versus the custom deal you fabbed up?

Thanks!

Mitch
The reservoir I used isn't a custom deal. It's an off the shelf part from FrozenBoost.com. I'll take a look into the LabJack. Sounds interesting for extranious data that isn't ECU related.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
I think it'd be neat to have a "Y" with a valve on the outlet of the pump that would allow the pump to pump "old" water into a "Spec C" Water spray tank that can then be used to spray down the radiator and heat exchangers later, then refill the 2 gallon res with fresh ice water?
Yes to basically say the same thing, there is "changing the water". This is not that same application that is used in drag racing. The reservoir is like your engine coolant tank, you don't usually change out that coolant, you would normally not change out the fluid in this system either. Think of it EXACTLY like your radiator, it's just the system is cooling the intercooler core and not your engine. The water will get up to a certain temp but always get cooled by the heat exchanger if your system is designed properly. And again, when done right these systems will take out over 250 degrees even when it's 110 outside.
 

·
I Solve Problems
Joined
·
18,254 Posts
the only worry I'd have with the spec C tank is slosh. I don't think we need 12L of water pumping thru the system. For weight reasons I'd prefer the least amount of water possible. 2 gallons of water sloshes around in the spec C tank, although since its a closed system it may work.

Yes to basically say the same thing, there is "changing the water". This is not that same application that is used in drag racing. The reservoir is like your engine coolant tank, you don't usually change out that coolant, you would normally not change out the fluid in this system either. Think of it EXACTLY like your radiator, it's just the system is cooling the intercooler core and not your engine. The water will get up to a certain temp but always get cooled by the heat exchanger if your system is designed properly. And again, when done right these systems will take out over 250 degrees even when it's 110 outside.
That makes sense, I guess I was looking for an excuse to use my Spec C tank still. :lol: Maybe I still can. hmm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
142 Posts
OK, I read through this thread a few more times and came up with some questions:

1) Does the pump send water to the infeed of the radiator (Type 118) or to the infeed of the AWIC (Type 14)?

2) Is the sump downstream of the radiator discharge or the AWIC discharge?

3) How does the discharge water line from the AWIC route? I think I can see the infeed hose path down to the radiator, but can't see the discharge side.

4) Where did you source that pump?

5) Can you shoot a few more shots around the AWIC? I'd like to see the BOV mounting and the plumbing from turbo outlet to the first 90 deg bend.

6) The 3.0" to 2.5" reducer (SIL000064);does that go from the AWIC air outlet to the throttle body?

7) In the trunk picture, describe the routing (once they leave the visible frame) of your return line and your pressure line (from the pump).

8) How is the pump mounted to the trunk floor? Or is it?

9) Where are you pulling your pump power and how much does it need?

10) Is the sender in the sump for temperature?

11) I noticed in the cut sheet that the radiator also has a temp probe port. Are you using that?

12) Where did you source the 1/2" NPT to AN adapters that you used for AWIC water supply and discharge?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,872 Posts
For us GR guys who don't have a regular "trunk", is the pump loud? I'd probably go with the same one since I fully trust Meziere (almost bought an electric water pump from them for my last car). I just don't want it whining all the time.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,595 Posts
Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
OK, I read through this thread a few more times and came up with some questions:

1) Does the pump send water to the infeed of the radiator (Type 118) or to the infeed of the AWIC (Type 14)?

2) Is the sump downstream of the radiator discharge or the AWIC discharge?

3) How does the discharge water line from the AWIC route? I think I can see the infeed hose path down to the radiator, but can't see the discharge side.

4) Where did you source that pump?

5) Can you shoot a few more shots around the AWIC? I'd like to see the BOV mounting and the plumbing from turbo outlet to the first 90 deg bend.

6) The 3.0" to 2.5" reducer (SIL000064);does that go from the AWIC air outlet to the throttle body?

7) In the trunk picture, describe the routing (once they leave the visible frame) of your return line and your pressure line (from the pump).

8) How is the pump mounted to the trunk floor? Or is it?

9) Where are you pulling your pump power and how much does it need?

10) Is the sender in the sump for temperature?

11) I noticed in the cut sheet that the radiator also has a temp probe port. Are you using that?

12) Where did you source the 1/2" NPT to AN adapters that you used for AWIC water supply and discharge?
1. Infeed of the core. The water has already been cooled by the heat exchanger and then sent back to the reservoir where it's further cooled and then up to the core.

2. Downstream of the heat exchanger.

3. Hot water runs from the core toward the right side of the engine bay foward to the area behind the right headlight and through a 45* fitting into the heat exchanger.

4. Pump was sourced from Jegs along with it's o-ring fittings.

5. I'll try and get some better shots of the BPV mounting and recirc hose routing.

6. The 3"-2.5" reducer is for the IC outlet to TB.

7. Feed line leaves the pump and runs under the rear seat foward under the console and through a pre existing hole in the fire wall behind the pedals. I ran it inside to keep the supply line cooler versus under the car subject to radiant heat from the pavement and exhaust components. The return line runs under the car on the passenger side to the rear, in between the trunk floor and the diffuser, and up through a pre existing hole on the trunk floor in the spare tire well at the back.

8. Pump is actually mounted to the reservoir with two bolts. I drilled two holes in the reservoir, put the bolts through from the inside with rubber washers, and threaded them into the mounting holes on the pump. The pump is already threaded for the bolts. I mounted it this way to isolate it from the chassis for noise reasons and also to allow for the whole assembly to be removed by just disconnecting the fittings and removing the four mount screws for the reservoir.

9. Pump power comes directly from the battery via a fused power wire just like a stereo system. The power wire runs from the battery to the switch in the console via the same hole in the firewall that the water feed line runs through and from there along the console to the rear and plugs right into the pump. The pump ground is screwed to one of the reservoir mounts with a loop terminal.

10. The sump has extra ports for other uses but comes with AN plugs for those ports. I drilled and tapped one of the plugs and screwed the temp probe into the plug for reservoir temp.

11. I didn't use the port in the heat exchanger to get temps. My temp probes are a different thread diameter and pitch. I also had some interference issues with the bumper cover and would have had to cut a slot in it to allow for the probe to be fitted. Since this is a "proof of principle" setup some rearranging of the components and adjustment to how things are mounted would allow for the probe to be fitted there if the boss is drilled and tapped for it.

12. All the fittings other than the pump fittings were sourced from Frozenboost.com. They have all the stuff to use whatever size lines you want from -6 to -12.

For us GR guys who don't have a regular "trunk", is the pump loud? I'd probably go with the same one since I fully trust Meziere (almost bought an electric water pump from them for my last car). I just don't want it whining all the time.
The pump is audible sort of similar to a large fuel pump. If you hold it in your hand and not mounted to anything and run it it's nearly silent. When it's pushing water it makes about the same noise as a Walbro. Mines louder due to being mounted directly to the reservoir. The reservoir isn't mounted with any rubber washers or any other sound isolating stuff but it would be easy to do so and would be completely covered up by any road noise or exhaust noise. The other option is to mount it outside the cabin somewhere and just run the lines accordingly.

T-G
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,872 Posts
Thanks for the response.

I'm curious about something. In my experience, general consensus is to run the fluid straight from the heat exchanger to the load (in this case, the IC). This is because as the fluid exits the heat exchanger it is at its coldest. You can do it the way you do it, the only issue is that the pump creates its own heat that it will add to the fluid just by working.

So, do you really feel running the cool fluid all the way back under the car to the reservoir, through the pump, then to the IC provides the IC cooler fluid than just straight from the heat exchanger to the IC (and then to the reservoir). I can understand doing it the way you did to monitor fluid temps pre-load, but for those of us interested in the best performance I'm interested in your thoughts.

Another question. Would adding this require a complete retune over my pro-tune? Or could I just make the minute adjustments myself with ATR? I'm fairly versed in tuning in general (tuned my last car), but I have yet to tune the STI. I wouldn't be seeking adding any power. I really want this to improve knock prevention since I have some occasional spikes as it is. I like the cost of this setup, my familiarity with it, and that it doesn't add a lot of pipe length (still on stock turbo).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,595 Posts
Discussion Starter #60
Thanks for the response.

I'm curious about something. In my experience, general consensus is to run the fluid straight from the heat exchanger to the load (in this case, the IC). This is because as the fluid exits the heat exchanger it is at its coldest. You can do it the way you do it, the only issue is that the pump creates its own heat that it will add to the fluid just by working.

So, do you really feel running the cool fluid all the way back under the car to the reservoir, through the pump, then to the IC provides the IC cooler fluid than just straight from the heat exchanger to the IC (and then to the reservoir). I can understand doing it the way you did to monitor fluid temps pre-load, but for those of us interested in the best performance I'm interested in your thoughts.

Another question. Would adding this require a complete retune over my pro-tune? Or could I just make the minute adjustments myself with ATR? I'm fairly versed in tuning in general (tuned my last car), but I have yet to tune the STI. I wouldn't be seeking adding any power. I really want this to improve knock prevention since I have some occasional spikes as it is. I like the cost of this setup, my familiarity with it, and that it doesn't add a lot of pipe length (still on stock turbo).
Here's my logic for my setup. Since the idea always to run some sort of chilling device in the reservoir the exchanger would then create a situation where the water was warmed back to ambient before going to the core and then there would be no reason for a chiller. On a normal setup the routing would probably be better in the sequence you stated. However the amount of heat put into the water by the pump that I'm using is probably negligable. The pump motor never gets more than luke warm to the touch anyway so I don't think it would be an issue. The only way to be sure though is to build one and measure temps.;) I looked at it as the heat exchanger is the primary heat removal for the water and since alot of heat is put into the water by the core I wanted the exchanger to remove as much of it as possible before it was sent to the reservoir to be chilled.

As far as retuning goes I don't see a need. All your doing is basically taking the stock setup with it's all over the place temp spikes and replacing it with a setup that keeps outlet temps very stable regardless of load. Without meth injection your outlet temps will probably always stay 5-10* above ambient. If you feel like adjusting your tune to account for the lack of temp spikes you can but I don't think you need to if you don't feel like messing with it.
 
41 - 60 of 417 Posts
Top