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So I just took a shot of my front endlink and here it is:

Blue line shows the direction of the end stud.
Red line shows there the direction of the balljoint.


Front left endlink

Yeap, that looks good and I am very happy with that. It stayed that way every since day one.

Front right endlink

This is what I am not happy with as it just don't sit straight like the one on the left. It tilt towards the swaybar, and the top balljoint twist to the left.

Now that I think about it, this is due to the swaybar shifted to the left side as there is no lateral lock on the swaybar. It is probably not a big deal but for sure that balljoint will die sooner than later. So I think maybe I should add some spacer for the right endlink later on today.
 

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After observing the endlink, I have decided to adjust it. I did a few configurations and in the end:

1. Keep the right endlink at its shortest length.
2. Increased the length of the left endlink by 1 revolution from shortest possible length.
3. Insert nut as spacer for top right endlink balljoint.

After driving around with a passenger, looks like this is the better configurations. And now it looks like this:

Right endlink


Left endlink


It is still not perfect but this is the best it can do due to the limitation in adjusting the endlink length regulated by full turn of balljoint to adjust the length. You can see the balljoint didn't stayed dead center and slightly twisted. But it is a much more less than before and the trade off the left also twist a bit.

But it certain is a lot better now. Most noticeable improvement is the correction in steering response between turning left and turning right. It used to pull slightly to the right but just now it felt as straight as arrow. And as I expected, nicer front suspension absorption also.

I am glad this work although is a bit ghetto. I'll keep a watch out how long will the balljoint stayed that way.
 

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Well, looks like it is holding up. It only has been a couple of days, but if the balljoint stayed that way, then it will stay that way forever until it is fully worn out.



Great~!
 

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I got close to my answer but after reading entire post I have to ask, what will namebrand endlinks do to my stock swaybars? They rhyme with Dartboy
 

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What should the first point of sway bar upgrades be for my '12 WRX stock, rear or front? I like to feel what does what incrementally.
 

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Do you know what the stock sway bar sizes are? I thought the rear was around 16mm but unsure about the front? Actually stepping up to the STI bars 21 frt/19rr mm is a good DD setup and you can buy them used pretty cheap. If you want adjustable I'd suggest either Eibach or Cobb hollow bars 25/22 for modest step up or 22/22 WL for a more aggressive set.
 

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Do you know what the stock sway bar sizes are? I thought the rear was around 16mm but unsure about the front? Actually stepping up to the STI bars 21 frt/19rr mm is a good DD setup and you can buy them used pretty cheap. If you want adjustable I'd suggest either Eibach or Cobb hollow bars 25/22 for modest step up or 22/22 WL for a more aggressive set.
I was tempted to -1 your post for plagiarism because I said the same thing recently and plagiarism is unethical. I told a few WRX and pre 2011 STi owners looking to upgrade their situation about this trick because it's so cheap and effective, especially with RCE stuff and GT WORX shocks. Maybe Koni inserts as well for Imprezas that were born less capable like WRX's, Foresters, Legacies etc.

I could ban your account for plagiarism, but I am just feeling really humorous right now. My kids are out of control and one is in time-out on my lap as I am typing. So I am trying to type the longest message possible to extend his time out.

The truth is great minds think alike and I would be honored to invite you to have dinner, and host you to a local autocross or track day where I have membership. But in the interest of the longest time out possible for my son, I will tell you that your recommendation is of quality and a thoughtful poster like yourself should be encouraged to post as much as possbile.

That said with my STi being a pretty hard core track car that pretends to have some DD potential, I am up to 8k/8k, soon 8k/9k upping rear because 22/22 sways are too much. The front sway is seto to soft or 22mm, but the rear sway at 21 is just too much. Since this setup is so much faster than stock, you corner faster, and you roll just as much due to higher speeds. Matter o' fact the fastest autocross and track STi's have very stiff springs, but very soft sways as per Geoff of Cyngusperformance.

So yes, opinions are like assholes, but my anal squirt here is that it is better to work on chassis/driveline stiffness like bushings, bracing and steering upgrades. Then, up the spring rate significantly while getting dampers that will stand up to that stiffness while staying very tame on the sways. IE 22/22 already is a lot, maybe 22/20 works better.

OK younger kid in time out, you can leave my lap as long as you behave. Let the bad boy be the STi. I can't wait to take you to autocross when you are of age. Maybe I will buy you an old SG N/A Forester as your first car. Practical, safe, and enough to blow M3's away if you are a good driver.

Someone thougthful and knowledgeable like jaboyd would know about this. Care to visit New England? Wife and kids is a huge plus as I have the same so the Venus halves and little ones can entertain themselves as the STi drivers can HPDE. And my wife can craft an amazing dinner the night after the event(s) are done. All I expect in return is same hospitality, and being taken to mountain roads in TN. Mountain roads in TN. Mountain roads in TN. Mountain roads in TN. And legal fireworks?

I can't wait until my first track days and autocrosses in about a month.

Best
T
 

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What should the first point of sway bar upgrades be for my '12 WRX stock, rear or front? I like to feel what does what incrementally.
Nothing. Springs before sways. Get a GT worx/bilstein shock set with RCE yellows, then go to OEM 2011+ STi sways with full group N bushings. But before this, do the driveline bushings. Sways should be thought of a supporting mod for springs and shocks, not the other way around. See sways transfer weight and load the outside tire more and lift the inside tire. IF you don't have the springs to resist that, your car will have a lower lateral G limit than stock due to inharmonious weight transfer.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-suspension-handling-stiffening/277554-how-modify-your-gr-sti-suspension.html

Springs before sways. Bushings before everything. Alignment with everything. Not sexy, expensive, counter intuitive. But you gotta pay to play, and if you do it right, you can spend less and get more for your money than some of these "slammed' people with super stiff everything and still out-drive Porsches at track days and autocross.
 

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Thanks for the feedback. By the way I always wondered where "Happy existence" was located...now I know it's in NE. I previously lived in NH and PA so I'm somewhat familiar with the driving options in the region....love those backroads!

I may be coming up to NE in the Fall so be careful what you offer...I might just stop by. Seriously, if you can make it to TN to drive the Tail of the Dragon and numerous other fantastic roads, I would love to host you, and family, for a great time in one of the best states for scenic driving and good roads. Actually the ones I enjoy most are in east TN, western NC and northern GA.

I recently did a comparison and write up on my experiment with a 22mm and 21mm rear bar setting. Look at today's posting on this thread:http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-suspension-handling-stiffening/268018-rce-t2-settings.html. What you'll see is that I fully endorse your 2mm dia difference and the softer 21 bar settings for aggressive street or possibly track use with my setup...although I haven't tried them on a track.
 

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Discussion Starter #72 (Edited)
That said with my STi being a pretty hard core track car that pretends to have some DD potential, I am up to 8k/8k, soon 8k/9k upping rear because 22/22 sways are too much. The front sway is seto to soft or 22mm, but the rear sway at 21 is just too much. Since this setup is so much faster than stock, you corner faster, and you roll just as much due to higher speeds. Matter o' fact the fastest autocross and track STi's have very stiff springs, but very soft sways as per Geoff of Cyngusperformance.

That is not exactly what I said. The quickest cars at autocross have soft front bars, stiff rears, stiff coilovers. The fastest cars at the track have stiff bars front and rear, stiff coilovers. Either way, all of the quickest GR STi's that I am aware of have a sway upgrade of some kind. To avoid posting another wall of text I will link to this post for a complete explanation:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141517-post10.html


Thanks,
Geoff
 

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That is not exactly what I said. The quickest cars at autocross have soft front bars, stiff rears, stiff coilovers. The fastest cars at the track have stiff bars front and rear, stiff coilovers. Either way, all of the quickest GR STi's that I am aware of have a sway upgrade of some kind. To avoid posting another wall of text I will link to this post for a complete explanation:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141517-post10.html


Thanks,
Geoff
That is debatable. Again I love you and you are my friend Goeff, but I disagree. I know, I know what opinions are like, everybody's got one, but my experience has brought me the full cycle of sways and I am close to stock again as the lower sway rates made the car handle better and better:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141795-post13.html
 

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Discussion Starter #74
That is debatable. Again I love you and you are my friend Goeff, but I disagree. I know, I know what opinions are like, everybody's got one, but my experience has brought me the full cycle of sways and I am close to stock again as the lower sway rates made the car handle better and better:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141795-post13.html
I don't like posting anything too negative or critical on the forums. I try my best to keep things as productive as possible, but when inaccurate information gets posted in this thread I feel the responsibility to address it. I know first hand that this thread has served many people well, and it is my hope that it will continue to do so. Here is my response:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/4145756-post18.html

It's nothing personal, but it is all of the facts laid out as I see them. Unless there is some major development I will just leave it at that and hopefully we can get back on topic here.

Thanks,
Geoff
 

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That is debatable. Again I love you and you are my friend Goeff, but I disagree. I know, I know what opinions are like, everybody's got one, but my experience has brought me the full cycle of sways and I am close to stock again as the lower sway rates made the car handle better and better:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/4141795-post13.html
Subarus are a somewhat unique beast when it comes to the suspension and its affect on handling. However, for non-autox, the basics are that when going to stiffer springs you'll need stiffer sway bars bc the given displacement of the higher rated spring is less for a given input/roll. Yes as you go faster even the higher rated springs will depress and possibly equally or more than when taken at a lower speed with the oem spring/swaybar. IMO increasing the spring rate while keeping the same swaybar may result in an actual wheel rate lower than the calculated wheel rate which assumes a static or set displacement distance.

With all of the suspension/chassis mods you've done you have a setup that provides much faster wt transfer and substantially more roll resistance. I can understand a near stock front swaybar size for autox combined with very aggressive front camber and 8k spring to give you grip. I'm guessing that a stock rear bar size with an a 9k spring basically eliminates oversteer by allowing more rear roll/better tire grip/less tire shock...but surprised that a 20mm bar would have made a huge difference in your handling vs a 19mm. For autox I would have thought that having a little oversteer would have been highly desirable.

Damping can have a big impact on the rate of pitch/roll, so I was wondering how much rebound damping you run frt/rr to match up with your springs and bars?
 

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Subarus are a somewhat unique beast when it comes to the suspension and its affect on handling. However, for non-autox, the basics are that when going to stiffer springs you'll need stiffer sway bars bc the given displacement of the higher rated spring is less for a given input/roll. Yes as you go faster even the higher rated springs will depress and possibly equally or more than when taken at a lower speed with the oem spring/swaybar. IMO increasing the spring rate while keeping the same swaybar may result in an actual wheel rate lower than the calculated wheel rate which assumes a static or set displacement distance.

With all of the suspension/chassis mods you've done you have a setup that provides much faster wt transfer and substantially more roll resistance. I can understand a near stock front swaybar size for autox combined with very aggressive front camber and 8k spring to give you grip. I'm guessing that a stock rear bar size with an a 9k spring basically eliminates oversteer by allowing more rear roll/better tire grip/less tire shock...but surprised that a 20mm bar would have made a huge difference in your handling vs a 19mm. For autox I would have thought that having a little oversteer would have been highly desirable.

Damping can have a big impact on the rate of pitch/roll, so I was wondering how much rebound damping you run frt/rr to match up with your springs and bars?
I found with the softer bars I can add more power earlier in a corner actually.

Keep in mind I have -3.4' of front camber and about 7.7' of caster, both of which are not the best for high speed stability. Indeed at 20mm rear the car was scary to drive on the highway and I still could not apply as much power as soon as I would have liked.

My dampers are full stiff front (but I have 8k springs and they were originally valved for 6k) and 3 clicks from full soft in the rear on 9k springs (originally valved for 7k springs). With the stock sways, this is truly the best setup I've tried, *extremely* stable at high speed, able to rotate on demand in corner entry, mostly neutral with a slight bit of push that can be eliminated with driving style, and able to accelerate early, hard and often.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that with the full swaybar upgrades, there are more to be done in the rear (there is a Whiteline swaybar brace as well as some Cusco bracing to connect into the rear subframe). So whatever you are running, if you do all the mods even on the stock sways the rear stiffness and thus wheel rate contributions from the swaybar is a little bit more and that has to be accounted for. Again this plus the aggressive alignment requires stiffness to be taken away in other ways from the rear and possibly added to the front.

Criticisms from Geoff are well taken, we are all here to learn, but of everything I've tried on stock springs as well as high end coilovers and fairly stiff everything, the best setup allows for a bit more body roll and keeping the stock sways. Some roll isn't a bad thing necessarily and helps keep more natural weight transfer and in many cases better grip!

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-suspension-handling-stiffening/279555-gr-coilovers-3.html

I would highly recommend Geoff, but instead of asking to buy swaybars, start with drivline bushings and/or his stage X steering upgrades along with a performance alignment. If anything before stiffening the suspension you will have to deal with less driveline, chassis and steering flop that takes away and absorbs some of the stiffness you are trying to add.
 

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I found with the softer bars I can add more power earlier in a corner actually.

Keep in mind I have -3.4' of front camber and about 7.7' of caster, both of which are not the best for high speed stability. Indeed at 20mm rear the car was scary to drive on the highway and I still could not apply as much power as soon as I would have liked.

My dampers are full stiff front (but I have 8k springs and they were originally valved for 6k) and 3 clicks from full soft in the rear on 9k springs (originally valved for 7k springs). With the stock sways, this is truly the best setup I've tried, *extremely* stable at high speed, able to rotate on demand in corner entry, mostly neutral with a slight bit of push that can be eliminated with driving style, and able to accelerate early, hard and often.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that with the full swaybar upgrades, there are more to be done in the rear (there is a Whiteline swaybar brace as well as some Cusco bracing to connect into the rear subframe). So whatever you are running, if you do all the mods even on the stock sways the rear stiffness and thus wheel rate contributions from the swaybar is a little bit more and that has to be accounted for. Again this plus the aggressive alignment requires stiffness to be taken away in other ways from the rear and possibly added to the front.

Criticisms from Geoff are well taken, we are all here to learn, but of everything I've tried on stock springs as well as high end coilovers and fairly stiff everything, the best setup allows for a bit more body roll and keeping the stock sways. Some roll isn't a bad thing necessarily and helps keep more natural weight transfer and in many cases better grip!

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gr-suspension-handling-stiffening/279555-gr-coilovers-3.html

I would highly recommend Geoff, but instead of asking to buy swaybars, start with drivline bushings and/or his stage X steering upgrades along with a performance alignment. If anything before stiffening the suspension you will have to deal with less driveline, chassis and steering flop that takes away and absorbs some of the stiffness you are trying to add.
The front valving makes sense but wouldn't a click or 2 more rear rebound eliminate the push you're getting without creating lift?
 
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