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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently asked about swaybars and endlinks and found that my best bet would be to not cheap out and just buy the endlinks (front and rear) as well as the front sway bar, not just rear.

My question now is i bought the whiteline 24mm swaybars and kartboy endlinks, the sway bars have three holes, What Stiffness combo works best?

Should i just go with the stiffest setting front and rear? or a little less up front?

EDIT* My suspension is BC Racing coilovers on full race (I.E. very stiff)
Thanks in advance,
Josh
 

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The Hoff Fan Club, member #001
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you should pick up a 27mm whiteline fsb, since the front's have the biggest impact on handling. i think you'll be ok on full stiff in the rear, but best thing to do is do a little testing and see what setting feels best to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So you think a bigger front sway should be used than the rear? i thought it was the other way around so that some of the understeer dissapeared? If this is the case, then maybe i should try the front stiffer thatn the rear, as both are 24mm and i have already purchased them.

Thanks Evil
 

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The Hoff Fan Club, member #001
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i know it makes sense the other way around, but on the subaru's a bigger front sway bar will help performance.
 

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+1 for a bigger bar in front. i have whiteline sways set at 26mm front and 24mm rear.
 

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I currently am running 29 front and 23 rear on my DD and it feels very neutral. I haven't been playing around with the setting too much lately but I am still on stock springs and feel this is a good... non-aggressive setting for what I need.
 

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I guess I'll be the odd guy out and say that I prefer the feel of my car with a bit stronger bar in the back. Maybe after I get my coilovers bolted up I'll be able to tune the handling of my car so that I can run the same size front and rear, or slightly bigger in the front. The problem could also that I don't have enough camber up front and too much in the rear.

I have Cobb bars. At some point in the future I may go to equivalently sized Whiteline bars since they're solid and a bit stronger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wow, I didnt know that a bigger bar up front was what everyone was running. Ill try to make the front stiffer than the rear and see how it feels.

Mykl, the whiteline bars are extremely solid and have that good weighty feel to them. They are very well crafted products
 

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I'm running the WL 27-29mm on the 29 setting up front and the 24-26mm on the 24mm setting on the rear bar. Also have the Apexi N1 type v coilovers on 18 X 7.5 Work Emotions cr kai wrapped with Bridgestone S03's, 235/40/18. It definitly got rid of most of the understear and positive camber rollover in the front. I check the wear marks on the outside of the tread and it stops right before the curve of the outside edge. Plus I don't have to run such an aggressive negative camber up front. Other than that the WL comfort alk will help with the positive camber rollover, improve the suspension geometry, and add static caster, which is definitely my next suspension mod in conjunction with setting up my front camber plates for more static caster.
 

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Im running whiteline adj. front 27mm and 26mm rear.(those settings). It rotates well, on and off the gas. Id like to try a bigger rear bar soon though.
 

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Mykl said:
I guess I'll be the odd guy out and say that I prefer the feel of my car with a bit stronger bar in the back. Maybe after I get my coilovers bolted up I'll be able to tune the handling of my car so that I can run the same size front and rear, or slightly bigger in the front. The problem could also that I don't have enough camber up front and too much in the rear.

I have Cobb bars. At some point in the future I may go to equivalently sized Whiteline bars since they're solid and a bit stronger.
You would think that the bigger rear bar would help the car turn, but in the turn, what happens on the STi is that the front still understeers while the rear oversteers.
 

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EarlQHan said:
You would think that the bigger rear bar would help the car turn, but in the turn, what happens on the STi is that the front still understeers while the rear oversteers.
Ummm....What? Im sure you have done numerous comparisons with different size frint/rear sway bars. Cause thats what everyone does on an online forum-They dont make claims untill they have proven with results!:lol:
 

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flatthump said:
Ummm....What? Im sure you have done numerous comparisons with different size frint/rear sway bars. Cause thats what everyone does on an online forum-They dont make claims untill they have proven with results!:lol:
He's actually mostly correct.

27-29 on 29 up front and 24-26 in the rear set on 25. Rotation is great, I wish I could get more of a trail breaking effect, though.
 

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LOLSTi said:
He's actually mostly correct.

27-29 on 29 up front and 24-26 in the rear set on 25. Rotation is great, I wish I could get more of a trail breaking effect, though.
If you look at my sig, youll see that im running that set-up.

Im going to be the odd one out and say just a front bar aint gunna get rid of that much understeer. Especially if you have decent alignment setting up front. Anyways, I ran for a while with just the 27mm bar up front. Hated that soooo bad. The car turned in quicker and then IMMEDIATELY started pushing. Then I rode around with just the RSB set on 25. AWESOME, this setup was way easier to rotate the car, while still remaining good stability. With both on it is a great car, pretty nueural with a touch of oversteer.(not enough for me)

Im not trying to be different. These were my observations from a two week period messing with sways. Id say a rear sway(w/custom alignment) is a better choice than a front bar and definetly created more oversteer in my STi. I wasnt impressed at all with a front bar alone, the car sucked.
 

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EarlQHan said:
You would think that the bigger rear bar would help the car turn, but in the turn, what happens on the STi is that the front still understeers while the rear oversteers.
ANd also(not trying to be a jerk) but I dont think the front can understeer while the rear oversteers.;) Its the whole car that either oversteers or understeers. (i.e. if the front starts to push, the car will begin to understeer)
 

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flatthump said:
ANd also(not trying to be a jerk) but I dont think the front can understeer while the rear oversteers.;) Its the whole car that either oversteers or understeers. (i.e. if the front starts to push, the car will begin to understeer)
Go ahead and read this post by Clint from TiC, it should clear up some of your misunderstandings. :)

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47158
 

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"If you increase oversteer you’re getting the rear of the car to try and come around more, but the front may still very well be plowing. Yes, you can meet and exceed the equilibrium of oversteer vs. understeer so that you’re hanging the back out faster than the front plows, but that’s not the best way to do it (unless you’re into drifting)." -Clint

What exactly was I misunderstanding?
If you did use the latter as a technique to increase oversteer and the rear end slides out faster than the front plows, Its still oversteer. That still backs up what I posted:

"Its the whole car that either oversteers or understeers. (i.e. if the front starts to push, the car will begin to understeer)"-Flatthump

Or if the front starts to push and the rear swings out faster the CAR will oversteer. Even though two different thing are happening at the front and rear which I wouldn't describe as either oversteer or understeer.Plow, push, loose, tight. Im pretty sure those are the type of terms one uses when ones talking about a specific end of a car
Steve
 

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flatthump said:
"If you increase oversteer you’re getting the rear of the car to try and come around more, but the front may still very well be plowing. Yes, you can meet and exceed the equilibrium of oversteer vs. understeer so that you’re hanging the back out faster than the front plows, but that’s not the best way to do it (unless you’re into drifting)." -Clint

What exactly was I misunderstanding?
If you did use the latter as a technique to increase oversteer and the rear end slides out faster than the front plows, Its still oversteer. That still backs up what I posted:

"Its the whole car that either oversteers or understeers. (i.e. if the front starts to push, the car will begin to understeer)"-Flatthump

Or if the front starts to push and the rear swings out faster the CAR will oversteer. Even though two different thing are happening at the front and rear which I wouldn't describe as either oversteer or understeer.Plow, push, loose, tight. Im pretty sure those are the type of terms one uses when ones talking about a specific end of a car
Steve
I suppose we can agree to use different terminology. Usually, plow = understeer.

You understand the main point though, it just wasn't clear to me. It seemed like (to me) above you assumed that if the car was oversteering then the front tires have grip, and vice versa.
 

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EarlQHan said:
You would think that the bigger rear bar would help the car turn, but in the turn, what happens on the STi is that the front still understeers while the rear oversteers.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Either car is understeer, oversteering, sliding, or gripping. The car can't oversteer and understeer at the same time.

Could you maybe explain this a bit further?
 

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LOLSTi said:
He's actually mostly correct.

27-29 on 29 up front and 24-26 in the rear set on 25. Rotation is great, I wish I could get more of a trail breaking effect, though.
My car rotates wonderfully when I'm on the brakes, unless I'm carrying so much speed that I just can't get the front wheels to bite for the amount of steering input I need. In that case it's pure driver error.

Anyway, I have Cobb front and rear bars, with the rear bar set to the middle setting. Since they're both the same size I would be inclined to say that as it sits the rear is exerting more pressure on the wheels.

Currently I have .9 degrees of negative camber up front for both sides. If I had 2.5 degrees up front and about 1.0 in the rear, with my current swaybars, there would be absolutely no understeer left.

Next time you're at an autocross do an experiment. Try to get your bars close to the same strength by lowering the front, and if your springs can handle it raise the rear... but only as long as that doens't give you wheel lift issues. Doing this may sacrifice a bit of overall grip due to the dynamic camber curve up front, but in my case I'm more comfortable with the way the car feels so I'm faster because of it.

flatthump said:
"If you increase oversteer you’re getting the rear of the car to try and come around more, but the front may still very well be plowing. Yes, you can meet and exceed the equilibrium of oversteer vs. understeer so that you’re hanging the back out faster than the front plows, but that’s not the best way to do it (unless you’re into drifting)." -Clint

What exactly was I misunderstanding?
If you did use the latter as a technique to increase oversteer and the rear end slides out faster than the front plows, Its still oversteer. That still backs up what I posted:

"Its the whole car that either oversteers or understeers. (i.e. if the front starts to push, the car will begin to understeer)"-Flatthump

Or if the front starts to push and the rear swings out faster the CAR will oversteer. Even though two different thing are happening at the front and rear which I wouldn't describe as either oversteer or understeer.Plow, push, loose, tight. Im pretty sure those are the type of terms one uses when ones talking about a specific end of a car
Steve
That makes no sense to me. When the front and rear tires lose grip at the same time, that's called neutral handling. You WANT neutral. You don't want understeer, and you don't want oversteer, you want both the front and rear tires to be capable of losing grip at as close to the same exact time as possible.

If my car is plowing out of turns while the rear end is wiggling under power, I don't care... because while the rear end is wiggling I can still use the steering wheel to guide the direction of the car and make it go where I want, so I've still got enough grip up there.
 
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