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The OP hasnt mentioned if he even has a 3" cobb downpipe??? The way his post is written, if taken literally, states that he flashed a stage 2 map and took his car to the track?? . . . The cobb stage 2 instructions are clear not to mix different brand downpipes and air filters than what they specify and not to go catless on the stage 2 ap tune.

The source of most of the overboosting on OTS map. If your not using the parts the tune was intended to be used with then why expect it to be a good tune for the car.
 

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OP.. what are your mods?


Just to let you know the COBB OTS stage 2 map is intended for a catted downpipe with "stock" airbox only. If you have a COBB SF intake or something similar- you will knock like crazy!
 

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Shhhhh.... Let's not go putting ideas of "knowledgeability" into my head!

But on a further OT; Brapp, do you have a thread about comparing the GR to the GD...? (I just looked at your profile)

I don't actually. Didn't really think about it actually... might be something worth writing up in a little while.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
OP.. what are your mods?


Just to let you know the COBB OTS stage 2 map is intended for a catted downpipe with "stock" airbox only. If you have a COBB SF intake or something similar- you will knock like crazy!
sorry, just realized that OP refers to me.
engine mods are Cobb catted downpipe and a Stage 2 93 octane OTS map from cobb accessport. thats it. Stock muffer and intake.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Agreed. If I used my car in competitive events I would at least wideband, oil temp, and oil pressure. Probably EGT, fuel pressure, etc. as well honestly. Track events really are the limit for these cars, so I would want to monitor as many useful parameters as practically possible.
Let me cut to the chase: should I have know that putting a Cobb Stage 2 tune on your car makes it unsuitable for track use??
If thats the truth of Stage 2 maps, then who wants to buy an almost new Cobb downpipe, because that limitation was not expected. I dont want to bother with all the mods mentioned in the above quote. (No disrespect intended)
I am just not a guy who wants to micromanage engine parameters. I was operating under the assumption that Cobb OTS maps were reliable, conservative tunes - nothing crazy about them.
Where would I get a Stage 2 map that is safe for track use? Are these "pro tune" maps sold online?
Would a Cobb Stage 1 map have the same problems?
I just want to go to the track without unnecessarily damaging my engine...
 

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I've tracked my STi twice with cobb stage 1+ map using 94 octane gas and I didn't see any drop in DAM at all. However, I had seen knocks here and there during the track events and it went as high as -4.8 at one point.
 

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sorry, just realized that OP refers to me.
engine mods are Cobb catted downpipe and a Stage 2 93 octane OTS map from cobb accessport. thats it. Stock muffer and intake.
Ok. What were your coolant temps? Did you monitor that? Sounds to me like it was just heat soaked. When was the last time you changed spark plugs?
 

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Let me cut to the chase: should I have know that putting a Cobb Stage 2 tune on your car makes it unsuitable for track use?? . . .

If thats the truth of Stage 2 maps, then who wants to buy an almost new Cobb downpipe, because that limitation was not expected. . . .

I am just not a guy who wants to micromanage engine parameters. I was operating under the assumption that Cobb OTS maps were reliable, conservative tunes - nothing crazy about them. . . .


Where would I get a Stage 2 map that is safe for track use? Are these "pro tune" maps sold online? . . .

I just want to go to the track without unnecessarily damaging my engine...
Going in reverse order"

*** taking a car to the track is unescesary and hard on your car.
*** If you don't want too micromanage a car you you're not a great candidate for having a modded turbo Subie for long. This would be true to some extent of any track car or any modded turbo car.

* A protune is a custom tune which can be done through a series of online interactions or driving the car, but is most easily done at a shop on a dyno at a cost of app $500.

* Personally my guess is that there is a reason you had or are having a problem with DAM that needs to be fixed regardless of anything else. Running your car with high DAM doees put your engine at risk.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Ok. What were your coolant temps? Did you monitor that? Sounds to me like it was just heat soaked. When was the last time you changed spark plugs?
that was the parameter I monitored on track = coolant temp. Mishimoto radiator did its thing, never exceeded 200. It rained the whole time, ambient temp 68-70 degrees. Good thing that it was not dry that day or I really would have stressed the car.
Plugs new, oil new, water wetter, ocasional IC sprays on the straightaways, , clean air/no drafting, ample cool down lap.
Obviously heat leads to knock, but I wasn't able to really drop the hammer due to the weather, but there are 2 straightaways where i pull up to 130mph+, and another 120mph+. Thats a lot of continuous boost.
 

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Going in reverse order"

*** taking a car to the track is unescesary and hard on your car.
*** If you don't want too micromanage a car you you're not a great candidate for having a modded turbo Subie for long. This would be true to some extent of any track car or any modded turbo car.

* A protune is a custom tune which can be done through a series of online interactions or driving the car, but is most easily done at a shop on a dyno at a cost of app $500.

* Personally my guess is that there is a reason you had or are having a problem with DAM that needs to be fixed regardless of anything else. Running your car with high DAM doees put your engine at risk.

All of this.

Whether you should have known that it was bad to track it on a OTS map, I don't know. Is it necessarily intuitive, no I don't think so. Most of what I know is from sorting through misinformation and getting to the good stuff on this website. So I would also be frustrated if I didn't know all that and had problems. With that said, I'm sure Cobb does have some kind of disclaimer stating the same things we said about the canned maps being one-size-fits-all and not working 100% well in all situations.

But yes, a lot of turbo cars are pretty finicky, especially with any mods or tough use. If you want something that "just works" for the track, I'd get an NA car personally.

Also yes, a protune and monitoring are not DIRECTLY linked. If you are going to have an aftermarket tune you should be monitoring, but that's true whether OTS or protune. Regardless, the tuner tries to do more fine tuning (lol pun) during the dyno event, so hopefully this would require less "micromanaging" down the line. It won't remove the need to monitor things but it theoretically should make things run more smoothly without requiring intervention.

Even so, tracking is hard on the car whether stock, stage 1 OTS, or a heavily built stage 3. All other things aside, if you are wanting to have a relatively hands-off tracking experience, you might want to look into taking a different car.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Going in reverse order"

*** taking a car to the track is unescesary and hard on your car.
*** If you don't want too micromanage a car you you're not a great candidate for having a modded turbo Subie for long. This would be true to some extent of any track car or any modded turbo car.

* A protune is a custom tune which can be done through a series of online interactions or driving the car, but is most easily done at a shop on a dyno at a cost of app $500.

* Personally my guess is that there is a reason you had or are having a problem with DAM that needs to be fixed regardless of anything else. Running your car with high DAM doees put your engine at risk.
I am getting a pro tune.
To answer my own question: STAGE 2 COBB MAP IS NOT SUITABLE FOR TRACK USE. GET A PRO TUNE.
If you have never used your Accessport to monitor engine parameters at the track, you may be surprised to find out what is going on under the hood. If i was not using the AP, I would have never known that my car was having problems. It pulled hard, and smooth through all the gears, and I had no indication that the car was unhappy.
 

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STAGE 2 COBB MAP IS NOT SUITABLE FOR TRACK USE. GET A PRO TUNE.


If you have never used your Accessport to monitor engine parameters at the track, you may be surprised to find out what is going on under the hood. If i was not using the AP, I would have never known that my car was having problems. It pulled hard, and smooth through all the gears, and I had no indication that the car was unhappy.
So you don't believe anyone else has ever run a Cobb stage 2 OTS map on the track monitored, and been fine with it?
 

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I've seen people run with OTS tunes and do fine and then others locked up a motor and/or overboosted. I suspect the OP is a competent driver on track, so he's going to be pushing it much harder than your average person here, or even more so than the guy who might do a couple track days a year.

That said, if you're looking to track the car, you'll be far, far, FAR better off getting a tune for your specific vehicle. Any flaw with the tune can lead to catastrophic results. Additionally, a healthy street/strip tune is likely too much for a track car with a fast driver.
 

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correct me if im wrong but lets get back to the basics here... OP sig states he has an 05 (wrx to sti) sti? he also stated he is running only a downpipe with his stage 2 map.

cobb 04-07 sti stg 2 includes a full turbo back exhaust and filter with accessport... see where im going with this?

i apologize if ive missed something here
 

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I've seen people run with OTS tunes and do fine and then others locked up a motor and/or overboosted. I suspect the OP is a competent driver on track, so he's going to be pushing it much harder than your average person here, or even more so than the guy who might do a couple track days a year.

That said, if you're looking to track the car, you'll be far, far, FAR better off gettis not optimalng a tune for your specific vehicle. Any flaw with the tune can lead to catastrophic results. Additionally, a healthy street/strip tune is likely too much for a track car with a fast driver.
Then you are saying two or three things, depending how you count:

1) The OP needs a tune, actually two. One for the track which needs to be "dialed back", and unless he wants to drive a dialed back tune on the street he needs a second tune/map for the street.

2) OTS tunes suck - but you've just written one tune is not optimal for both street and track. Seems like something we should all know and get used to. and not expect any single OTS tune to be optimal.
 

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My personal opinion is that OTS maps suck in both aspects. Track tunes need a more solid tune that may likely need less boost and timing because you're going to be dealing with a lot of heat. I've always been a "run what you brung" type of person, so all my tunes on my personal cars are almost always "detuned" so that I can just run it how I want, whenever/wherever I want and not worry.

It's almost like brake pads... One guy will go out on track and say how awesome a set of HP+ pads are, but then a more talented driver goes out and cooks them on one lap. Someone may be able to get away with an OTS tune if it actually meshes with their particular car, but it certainly isn't optimal... And another guy with more talent will absolutely destroy the motor (and you'll eventually push coolant). I can share my reasoning why they're no good in PM if you want to really discuss it.

For a street car and an "average" customer, it's like stock tune with more power. That said, stock tunes blow up too.
 

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^ agreed. A track tune should be used to maximize longevity; dialed back timing and boost and a fatter AFR to pull out some heat.

Street/drag and road course are very different applications. Going a step beyond average users, a tuner will datalog and adjust the tune trackside (sometimes even ride-along). A step beyond that (think the 24-h Nurburgring STi or WRC cars), when the cars are pulled out of the trailer they aren't even started until a 'calibrator' plugs in, possibly makes some adjustments, and gives the thumbs up to start it. Even further (think F1) you have a team of many people pre-heating fluids, checking various systems, etc. verifying the car's health and readiness before startup.
 

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Been meaning to get back here:

I found this discussion informative. I've read many posts by people who have overheating problems on the track. What I take from this discussion is that in a given physical configuration, you can only get so much heat out of the engine/bay even including the "standard" mods, increased water and oil cooling capacity. and attention to other beneficially insulated areas. What we are left with is tune. So those who have really done their diligence in those areas really ought to be thinking tune or tune limits rather than fighting heat. We've seen cars sold over this . . .
 
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