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I am sure this has been covered, but I couldn't find anything . I ran a Cobb Stage 2 93 map at the track and The DAM went down to 0.5. I reflashed to Stage 2 91 Octane, and added 10% race gas(100 octane), but it never learned past DAM=0.6.
I called Cobb and they said not to risk any more damage, so I left the track, and wasted my precious track time..cry.
I reflashed to the Stage 2 91ACN map, and it quickly learend to DAM=1.0 before I got to the track's exit gate. At a nearby gas station I reflashed back to my original Map = Stage 2 93 octane. Within 2 miles it leared its way up to DAM=1.0.
DAM 1.0.
So everything is fine?
Can I not run a Stage 2 map on the track? It seems like the car is healthy unless I am spanking the shit out of it on the track (roadcourse).
Has anyone successfully used a Stage 2 map without lowering the dam?
Data logging has not yielded any answers, but I really dont know what I am looking at. I watched the video on Cobb's site, but they only cover 6 parameters.
Any insights on using A stage 2 tune at the track??
Thanks
 

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If you want to push the car on track, you really need a real tune. OTS maps aren't that good and run more aggressive timing than I would prefer on track, additionally, I would verify where your AFR really is with a WBO2.
 

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If you want to push the car on track, you really need a real tune. OTS maps aren't that good and run more aggressive timing than I would prefer on track, additionally, I would verify where your AFR really is with a WBO2.
ok thanks. what does wbO2 mean?
 

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and if the car is pulling timing so that DAM=0.6, does that mean that it will keep the engine safe by retarding timing at the expense of performance??
 

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and if the car is pulling timing so that DAM=0.6, does that mean that it will keep the engine safe by retarding timing at the expense of performance??
It means that the engine is knocking so bad that it is pulling global timing in an attempt to protect itself. Its purely a reaction so any damage that is done would already have happened.
 

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ok thanks. what does wbO2 mean?
Wide band oxygen sensor. So not the one that comes with the car. An aftermarket one that reads a more exact reading, they usually come with a guage. I do not know if Cobb has released a set up to run it through an unused tgv port of you have deleted them and then it would display on the a/p...

That's an idea though.

I had the Aem one. I am moving to the one on my AIM display.
 

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I don't know if they are any good etc but if you don't want to have gauges mounted in the car, AEM has a setup that allows you to monitor wideband O2 plus 1 or 2 EGT probes via a wifi-capable cell phone. It is wifi based (so that i-Devices can work with it, presumably) so you aren't able to use the internet while you are using it etc. If I did this, I would use an old inactive cell phone dedicated to this purpose (and possibly use a rooted phone + aftermarket headunit to do screen mirroring).

There are other solutions available as well. They make replacement air vents for many cars that allow you to mount a gauge in the vent recess. If you use a multigauge like available from PLX, you can monitor many things from that one gauge. I like this idea because I don't want to have 3 to 6 gauges in pods on the dash, A-pillar, etc.

As mentioned, wideband O2 monitoring requires a specific type of O2 sensor and it is dedicated to the gauge itself. A lot of aftermarket downpipes have what's called an O2 bung which is a threaded insert welded into the pipe that allows you to screw in said sensor.

Our cars are already a bit sensitive about being run at the track compared with many other performance models. I definitely would not push my luck running an OTS map in a high-stress, high-temperature environment.
 

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You are expecting a generic cobb off the shelf map to get you through a track day of serious vehicle stress. Are you serious?? I would think that every time the ecu is reflashed the DAM will start at its highest point of what that map allows and adjust as the ecu see fit. If the DAM is going down it means there is more than normal knocking going on. The ecu should be pulling timing in order to help correct it but it does not mean its making it safe. It is just currently trying to band aid an issue.

If i were you, i would check your oil level after the car is hot. Keep an eye on your DAM values for a while. I would not recommend tracking the car on such generic software. Get the car protuned before you do another track event. Getting some gauges wouldn't be a bad idea either.
 

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Agreed. If I used my car in competitive events I would at least wideband, oil temp, and oil pressure. Probably EGT, fuel pressure, etc. as well honestly. Track events really are the limit for these cars, so I would want to monitor as many useful parameters as practically possible.
 

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I love protune's and highly recommend them as well. But...on something as mellow
As a "stage 2" set up, I am surprised that he had problems at the track.
I know that our cars are rather finicky, temperamental and have a horrendous weak spot... But all the "stage 2" upgrade does is make the air pump as free flowing and efficient as its stock parts can be and no more.
I would think that a low boost, or proper octane, or even when he said he juiced with higher octane, that he wouldn't have any problems at all. One would not expect knock problems on an e85 tune...so really how stressed is an OTS 2 tune with 100?
Fragile Pistons doent make for knock events. They just make knock events fatal!!!

Anyways... I'd check to make sure you weren't overheating...boost leaking...cooking your spark plugs (hello glow plug) as well.
 

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I love protune's and highly recommend them as well. But...on something as mellow
As a "stage 2" set up, I am surprised that he had problems at the track.
I know that our cars are rather finicky, temperamental and have a horrendous weak spot... But all the "stage 2" upgrade does is make the air pump as free flowing and efficient as its stock parts can be and no more.
I would think that a low boost, or proper octane, or even when he said he juiced with higher octane, that he wouldn't have any problems at all. One would not expect knock problems on an e85 tune...so really how stressed is an OTS 2 tune with 100?
Fragile Pistons doent make for knock events. They just make knock events fatal!!!

Anyways... I'd check to make sure you weren't overheating...boost leaking...cooking your spark plugs (hello glow plug) as well.
True that you would think the 100 octane would give a little added insurance. But with that in mind, the OTS maps don't even compensate for differences that exist from car to car, so it is stretching it to think there is enough room left for the car to compensate for variables created by the high-stress driving plus likely very high temperatures. If the OTS map still has some lean areas, that only makes things worse. Even with a little higher octane, if cylinder temps are getting out of wack enough it still poses a problem.

I've already debated back and forth about a meth kit. If I do events with my car I'll get one, possibly for a little bit more aggressive timing, but mostly just for added insurance.
 

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....But with that in mind, the OTS maps don't even compensate for differences that exist from car to car, so it is stretching it to think there is enough room left for the car to compensate for variables created by the high-stress driving plus likely very high temperatures. If the OTS map still has some lean areas, that only makes things worse....
I think that is where we may disagree on the design of the OTS tunes. Cobb has them as mellow as they can to compensate for the differences in car to car, altitude, temp and driver differences. They are clean ups of the even more lax stock tunes, getting rid of the dangerous epa lean outs and allowances for a slightly more efficient pump (usually meaning adding fuel, not subtracting it) but not much more.

The protuner does this same thing again...a massage of this stage 2 to the specific car (wether they start from scratch or have a generic base that they then dabble from Is Proprietary I assume). That is how a "protuner" finds the extra 10-20 hp (and sometimes dangerously more) in a protuner stage 2 over a Cobb ots.


The Cobb ots are a generic one size fits all overly safe for what it is.
A protune is a custom for your cars idiosyncrasies and safest bet you can get unless you are "tuned" for ten tenths...

I believe the Cobb tunes also maximize the stick injectors and fuel pump to get rid of any lean spots, which is why so many places encourage an upgraded in tank pump when going with "stage 2" modifications and OTS or custom tune.
 

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I think that is where we may disagree on the design of the OTS tunes. Cobb has them as mellow as they can to compensate for the differences in car to car, altitude, temp and driver differences. They are clean ups of the even more lax stock tunes, getting rid of the dangerous epa lean outs and allowances for a slightly more efficient pump (usually meaning adding fuel, not subtracting it) but not much more.

The protuner does this same thing again...a massage of this stage 2 to the specific car (wether they start from scratch or have a generic base that they then dabble from Is Proprietary I assume). That is how a "protuner" finds the extra 10-20 hp (and sometimes dangerously more) in a protuner stage 2 over a Cobb ots.


The Cobb ots are a generic one size fits all overly safe for what it is.
A protune is a custom for your cars idiosyncrasies and safest bet you can get unless you are "tuned" for ten tenths...

I believe the Cobb tunes also maximize the stick injectors and fuel pump to get rid of any lean spots, which is why so many places encourage an upgraded in tank pump when going with "stage 2" modifications and OTS or custom tune.

Fair enough. I am still of the opinion that I would want the most precise tune for my car. The OTS maps may tend toward the rich side for safety. Even though this is safer than running lean, consistently running rich is not good either. In complete fairness, as mentioned, I would feel uneasy even with a protuned stage 2 pushing hard on the track without some extra support like meth injection. That's just me. Truthfully I'd always be paranoid anyway - too many lifted heads etc etc, I'd definitely be ready for a build if I tracked my car hard.
 

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I know that our cars are rather finicky, temperamental and have a horrendous weak spot... But all the "stage 2" upgrade does is make the air pump as free flowing and efficient as its stock parts can be and no more.
.



I guess maybe a turbo could be considered an "air pump"...


In any case, it seems like people's results vary widely with OTS tunes. My 03 WRX overboosted horribly on the OTS map, on the OTS map that was supposed to help with overboosting, and on tweaked OTS maps that Cobb sent me to help with the overboosting. Got a protune and fixed the problem immediately.
 

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Haha I love that picture, but yes a turbo is essentially an air pump. Good point on the overboosting. That's the kind of thing I was talking about - I do not consider the OTS maps to be at all fine tuned for each car. I think they probably work great on some cars, but they are a one-size-fits-all solution that doesn't really work perfectly for everyone.
 

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Lol! I meant the engine is an air pump...sucks it in (or forced in) and pushed out!!!

I just meant that the OTS tunes are not pushing much anywhere near the limit and as such are not "fine tuned"....that's the point. Leaves a lot for error in temp,
Over boost, bad fuel, lugging, altitude...etc etc...engine build descrepancies (sp?)
 

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The OP hasnt mentioned if he even has a 3" cobb downpipe??? The way his post is written, if taken literally, states that he flashed a stage 2 map and took his car to the track?? I don't know that he even has the supporting mods or if he flashed the stage 2 on a stock engine??

The cobb stage 2 instructions are clear not to mix different brand downpipes and air filters than what they specify and not to go catless on the stage 2 ap tune.
 

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Lol! I meant the engine is an air pump...sucks it in (or forced in) and pushed out!!!

I just meant that the OTS tunes are not pushing much anywhere near the limit and as such are not "fine tuned"....that's the point. Leaves a lot for error in temp,
Over boost, bad fuel, lugging, altitude...etc etc...engine build descrepancies (sp?)
Haha! The rest of your post seemed too knowledgable for you to actually be claiming that the air pump was what was producing more power :lol:
 

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Shhhhh.... Let's not go putting ideas of "knowledgeability" into my head!

But on a further OT; Brapp, do you have a thread about comparing the GR to the GD...? (I just looked at your profile)
 
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