seeing as the M3 is only rwd, the STi should hang with it stock. but spend a good $1200 on the right parts, and it'll prolly beat it.
So what's it gonna take to make the STi stay with a stock M3
Assuming we get essentially the same STi as the UK. Call me an idiot, but I would like to have a STi that's faster on the straightaway than an M3. Can the STi get there with just ECU (i.e. Unichip) changes alone? What do you think?
Yes, I know it's not a drag car! :smile:
Yes, I know it's not a drag car! :smile:
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Well, depends on what you mean by "hang with".
The stock M3 has a 0-60 of 4.8 seconds according to BMW, and the WRX STi Spec UK has 5.02 seconds according to http://www.subaru.co.uk. So - I would imagine a unichip or a boost controller, or a cat-back exhaust would probably push you over the top. Pretty close as is though...
The stock M3 has a 0-60 of 4.8 seconds according to BMW, and the WRX STi Spec UK has 5.02 seconds according to http://www.subaru.co.uk. So - I would imagine a unichip or a boost controller, or a cat-back exhaust would probably push you over the top. Pretty close as is though...
*professional driver on closed course*
in your day to day life, your average M3 owner didn't buy the car for the car, but our fellow STi driver has sought out his machine, knowing its strenghts and weaknesses. and id bet that we have about 320. ive heard through the grapevine that realworld dynos reveal that hidden 50 hp.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BuDDyLeE on 2002-03-19 04:18 ]</font>
in your day to day life, your average M3 owner didn't buy the car for the car, but our fellow STi driver has sought out his machine, knowing its strenghts and weaknesses. and id bet that we have about 320. ive heard through the grapevine that realworld dynos reveal that hidden 50 hp.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BuDDyLeE on 2002-03-19 04:18 ]</font>
It's more likely that the dynomometer reveals a stolen 40-50 hp; you're going to get a lower reading.
I believe you're referring to the rumors that the JDM spec STi claims 276bhp but the acceleration numbers indicate more HP. If its really 320 I'd wager a guess at 256HP on a dyno. (Based on the dyno results Cobb tuning gets)
I haven't driven an STi, obviously, but I do currently own an M3 and I would guess that a completely stock STi would have no problems keeping up with the M3 on the highway... Even my '90 Eclipse GSX was MUCH faster than my M3, although it was heavily modified. That is assuming that we don't get a detuned version of the STi here in the states. If you do crave more power, however, you can easily swap out the top mounted inter-cooler for a FMIC and add a boost controller.
Later,
-Adrian
Later,
-Adrian
A FMIC boosts HP? Why is it better than a top mounted?
M3Driver, what year M3 do you have? I love Scoobies and all, but the new M3s are wicked fast from what I've seen - way faster than a UK spec STi.
As to the intercooler: Go to http://www.cobbtuning.com and read the "RT spec" stuff. Basically, a front mounted intercooler is bigger than a top-mount, so it has more surface area to cool the air more before it gets to the engine. Cooler air = denser air = more gas = bigger boom, etc.
As to the intercooler: Go to http://www.cobbtuning.com and read the "RT spec" stuff. Basically, a front mounted intercooler is bigger than a top-mount, so it has more surface area to cool the air more before it gets to the engine. Cooler air = denser air = more gas = bigger boom, etc.
M$, I have a Dakar Yellow '99 E36 M3 Coupe, so it is does not have the muti-port throttle-body intake manifold or the double vanos system that the Euro M3 and the E46 US spec M3's have. However, it has run a 13.67 @ 102.1 (with traction control fuse removed) at the track and a friend that has a E46 M3 Coupe only runs slightly faster with a times around 13.3 @ 106. As a comparison my '90 Eclipse ran 12.4's at 112+ MPH, albeit, heavily modified. You also have to remember that even though the new car has more HP, it also weighs about 300 - 400 lbs more (which = uninspired handling)... Plus, the E36 M3's horsepower claim of 240 is well below what it actually should be... My car dynoed 243 HP at the rear wheels in 4th gear; corrected for ~15% drivetrain loss, that equates to about 285 HP at the flywheel.
Chawklit, a FMIC can defnitely boost HP. There are a number of factors you have to consider. First of all, as M$ mentioned, you will have a much larger surface area to cool the air and this surface also is mounted so that fresh air constantly moves accross it. You will also experience more "heat soak" (which = less consistant cooling) with a top mounted unit, because it sits right on top of the engine. Another factor is that a good FMIC will have much less pressure drop accross it than the factory top mounted unit, this mod alone will increase the boost at the manifold slighty (1-2 psi), which in-turn will increase HP... but, even if you use a boost controller to turn the boost back down to the factory levels, the turbo will not have to work nearly as hard to produce the same boost pressure, because there is less pressure loss in the intercooler / piping after the turbo. A larger FMIC will also support a much larger turbo in the future (which means more potential HP), because of its greater flow capability.
Hope this helps.
Chawklit, a FMIC can defnitely boost HP. There are a number of factors you have to consider. First of all, as M$ mentioned, you will have a much larger surface area to cool the air and this surface also is mounted so that fresh air constantly moves accross it. You will also experience more "heat soak" (which = less consistant cooling) with a top mounted unit, because it sits right on top of the engine. Another factor is that a good FMIC will have much less pressure drop accross it than the factory top mounted unit, this mod alone will increase the boost at the manifold slighty (1-2 psi), which in-turn will increase HP... but, even if you use a boost controller to turn the boost back down to the factory levels, the turbo will not have to work nearly as hard to produce the same boost pressure, because there is less pressure loss in the intercooler / piping after the turbo. A larger FMIC will also support a much larger turbo in the future (which means more potential HP), because of its greater flow capability.
Hope this helps.
Hey! Its "D$" not "M$" !
Thanks for the M3 info. I've been thinking lately that I'd like an STi to modify and something like an M3 for daily driving. Has your experience with it been a good one? I hear people say you can't drive a Bimmer like a sports car without it having problems...
Thanks for the M3 info. I've been thinking lately that I'd like an STi to modify and something like an M3 for daily driving. Has your experience with it been a good one? I hear people say you can't drive a Bimmer like a sports car without it having problems...
D$, sorry about the name thing, I think I just had M3 on the brain. :wink:
Anyway, the M3 is an awesome everyday driver... It's smooth, quiet, quick, and handles like a dream, plus it gets about 29 MPG on the highway. I just wish I could afford to keep it and buy an STi, but alas, I'm building a new house right now and will have a huge mortgage payment soon and I don't forsee myself winning the lottery anytime soon. :smile: However, the M3 has been far from trouble free... It probably goes to the dealer 5 or 6 times a year for non-routine warranty mainenance. The dealers are first class though, and make it as hassle free as possible (i.e. brand new 5 series loaner car... wish it was an M5 :wink: All problems have been relatively minor though, and I have yet to have any major problems (knock on wood). The main reason I'm gonna replace the car with an STI is because it is just too expensive to modify. To really make this car fast would cost me a fortune, and the WRX's are relatively easy to modify, just like DSM's... plus, I miss that AWD turbo fun that I had with my Eclipse.
One word of advise if you do decide to buy a used M3; make sure you buy one that is BMW certified. My BMW warranty has saved me several thousand $ is unscheduled maintenance.
Anyway, the M3 is an awesome everyday driver... It's smooth, quiet, quick, and handles like a dream, plus it gets about 29 MPG on the highway. I just wish I could afford to keep it and buy an STi, but alas, I'm building a new house right now and will have a huge mortgage payment soon and I don't forsee myself winning the lottery anytime soon. :smile: However, the M3 has been far from trouble free... It probably goes to the dealer 5 or 6 times a year for non-routine warranty mainenance. The dealers are first class though, and make it as hassle free as possible (i.e. brand new 5 series loaner car... wish it was an M5 :wink: All problems have been relatively minor though, and I have yet to have any major problems (knock on wood). The main reason I'm gonna replace the car with an STI is because it is just too expensive to modify. To really make this car fast would cost me a fortune, and the WRX's are relatively easy to modify, just like DSM's... plus, I miss that AWD turbo fun that I had with my Eclipse.
One word of advise if you do decide to buy a used M3; make sure you buy one that is BMW certified. My BMW warranty has saved me several thousand $ is unscheduled maintenance.
M3Driver, what dealer did you go through? I bought my 318 from The BMW Store. I have been in contact with them about the possibility of buying a '98 M3sedan. They tried to sell me a new 325. they even went as far as telling me that it would perform as well as the M3. I plan on leaving my next car stock. -"Plan"- If that is the case what do you think about my dilemma? M3 vs 325 vs STi. Everyone I have asked so far has said the same, STi is raw performance, BMW is more comfort. Tell me more. -j
Thx for the info, I think I understand now!
STiWant1, I actually bought my M3 from Harold Ziegler BMW in Kalamazoo, MI... However, I do have all my service work done at the BMW Store. As far as I'm concerned, they are the only BMW dealer worth going to in Cinci. What they told you is probably worse than trying to say that the WRX will perform as well as an STi... there is absolutely no comparison between the 325 (or even the new 330) and the M3! If you want to discuss the big differences between the 325i and the M3, or the STi for that matter, then e-mail me privately at [email protected], so we don't waste anymore of the bandwidth on the STi forum.
My Dad told me that in Japan the car companies must pay a fine if the car creates more than 280 bhp. That is why the WRX and the EVO7 both have about 280 bhp. Could someone confirm this please?
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I highly doubt that the wrx will "hang" with the m3. the new m3 does have the (now one and only ) european 333 hp powerplant. as for hangin' in the twisties, I sincerily doubt it seeing as how Motor Trend just did a comparison with the 6 spd Matrix 17", mazda protoge 5 16", and the wrx wagon with the optional BBS 17"'s. guess who came in last in the slalom behind the 1st place matrix, and 2nd place mp5? I would hope that this would be remedied by a nice set of coilovers to replace the "snow" suspension, seeing as how I will always be on road.
The M3 will smoke the STi...sorry everyone! The M3 is an AWESOME car in every aspect.
If you want to smoke/hang with an M3 wait until its rainy or snowy then the M3 won't have a chance...or spend PLENTY of money on the STi, waste an M3, then shortly thereafter watch your car blow and then spend more money rebuilding it. Oh yeah an M3 will hold its value much better too.
Don't get me wrong I am still very much in love with an STi, but apples and oranges. Owning an STi means you are faster than 99% of the cars on the road and if driven correctly you can be a major contender in SCCA.
If you want to smoke/hang with an M3 wait until its rainy or snowy then the M3 won't have a chance...or spend PLENTY of money on the STi, waste an M3, then shortly thereafter watch your car blow and then spend more money rebuilding it. Oh yeah an M3 will hold its value much better too.
Don't get me wrong I am still very much in love with an STi, but apples and oranges. Owning an STi means you are faster than 99% of the cars on the road and if driven correctly you can be a major contender in SCCA.
My .02
Having driven all three US market M3's (and a 91 M5), I woulod say the E36 is the M3 with the most un-inspired handling. It is a dog in feel when compared to the E30, and the E46 just blows them both away.
Having driven all three US market M3's (and a 91 M5), I woulod say the E36 is the M3 with the most un-inspired handling. It is a dog in feel when compared to the E30, and the E46 just blows them both away.
M3Driver said:M$, I have a Dakar Yellow '99 E36 M3 Coupe, so it is does not have the muti-port throttle-body intake manifold or the double vanos system that the Euro M3 and the E46 US spec M3's have. However, it has run a 13.67 @ 102.1 (with traction control fuse removed) at the track and a friend that has a E46 M3 Coupe only runs slightly faster with a times around 13.3 @ 106. As a comparison my '90 Eclipse ran 12.4's at 112+ MPH, albeit, heavily modified. You also have to remember that even though the new car has more HP, it also weighs about 300 - 400 lbs more (which = uninspired handling)... Plus, the E36 M3's horsepower claim of 240 is well below what it actually should be... My car dynoed 243 HP at the rear wheels in 4th gear; corrected for ~15% drivetrain loss, that equates to about 285 HP at the flywheel.
Chawklit, a FMIC can defnitely boost HP. There are a number of factors you have to consider. First of all, as M$ mentioned, you will have a much larger surface area to cool the air and this surface also is mounted so that fresh air constantly moves accross it. You will also experience more "heat soak" (which = less consistant cooling) with a top mounted unit, because it sits right on top of the engine. Another factor is that a good FMIC will have much less pressure drop accross it than the factory top mounted unit, this mod alone will increase the boost at the manifold slighty (1-2 psi), which in-turn will increase HP... but, even if you use a boost controller to turn the boost back down to the factory levels, the turbo will not have to work nearly as hard to produce the same boost pressure, because there is less pressure loss in the intercooler / piping after the turbo. A larger FMIC will also support a much larger turbo in the future (which means more potential HP), because of its greater flow capability.
Hope this helps.
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