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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

That sucks, all i have to say is that my original block got manhandled during honing. The actual sleeve was ripped from the motor while on the machine. Sean @ vigilant where as he takes care of all the balancing and assembly and the machining is done out of house he still covered getting me a whole new engine block and went back re did all the clearences etc with nothing more out of my pocket than what I originally paid and only set me back about 4 more days from original date of completetion.

What I'm trying to get at is if your local machine shop hasn't actually done a subaru engine before I would really look into giving him a call just based on how everything was handled for myself and that he also specializes in sleeved blocks. There isn't a problem that he won't fix or straighten out and you can trust that it will be done right without a doubt. Vigilant is in Missouri just outside of STL and depending on where you are in Ohio it can be a driveable trip.

Still best of luck with the build whatever the route. I hate to see unexpected down time as I'm used to it myself and know how much of a turn off from everything that it is.
 

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Smitty,
I have been following your build. I have the used block out of my 2011 in Louisville KY. I'll help you out big if you need the block. I had #4 factory ring crack at 12k miles of ownership and bought a new built engine, etc. I don't know your needs as of today, but if this will help let me know. Sorry about the roadblock in your progress.
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

lol so cliff notes ...

These cases like to flex. It seems from what we saw that adding main bearings can cause the case to flex compared to not having the mains in, torque procedure on the case bolts can cause the measurements to be different and a torque plate is beyond necessary.

The interim fix is to perform the final hone with all these things in place to get it as close to perfect as possible. The long term is a redesigned case that is stiffer and incorporates through studs rather than bolts for the case halves eliminating the possibility of flexing the case when torquing it down.

I am unhappy with how the situation was covered by Benson but I am getting a new case that will have the final hone done locally so I cna control the process and have it done right.
hmmmm. good stuff in here for sure, sorry it had to be at the expense of your wallet. Thats pretty arrogant how he treated you, I really think you named the big ones, using proper torque sequence with the same bolts you intend to run using the lube that was supplied with them during all steps from honing to measuing. Without question a torque plate for these squirmy little blocks. We never left any bearings in (except for measuring mains), now I'm interested throwing in a set on a spare block to check the specs.

Oh here is your long term fix....

Billet EVO Block Their EVO block holding 65 psi... I think that should be good. :devil:



 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

hmmmm. good stuff in here for sure, sorry it had to be at the expense of your wallet. Thats pretty arrogant how he treated you, I really think you named the big ones, using proper torque sequence with the same bolts you intend to run using the lube that was supplied with them during all steps from honing to measuing. Without question a torque plate for these squirmy little blocks. We never left any bearings in (except for measuring mains), now I'm interested throwing in a set on a spare block to check the specs.

Oh here is your long term fix....

Billet EVO Block Their EVO block holding 65 psi... I think that should be good. :devil:




Jesus H. ****ing christ that is amazing...
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

Have you fit the Cipher Racing Harness Bar yet? I saw it listed for the '08+ Hatch. This looks like a good option and sure beats the $400+ for the sparco bar.
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

We haven't yet purchased them at this point. Once we get them, we will check the quality on them and report back. My guess is that we'll have one for each the GR and GD within the next few weeks.

It's not a complicated part, so the only potential issue would be with fitment. The price is great and the function should be the same as the Sparco bar.
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

Anybody heard anything on that billet block running as yet?
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

Wow, I lost touch with your thread and just read what the resolution was with Benson. It makes me wonder if I need to follow up a bit more on what he did with mine. I was under the impression he used a torque plate. I was also told he used my H11 studs we sent him when he did the sleeve work and his part of the machining. [I have not had any of the H11 issues that were in the nabisco thread]. When my local builder completed my block (with a torque plate), all specs were good (but... I have yet to see the actual numbers... they are 'lost' on SCR's computers, I was assured that it was within spec and I trust my builder). My engine has performed very well since it was done - I have about 5k miles on it - all daily driving, no track days. It is a much more solid feeling engine than my last rebuild (quiet as OEM once warmed up). I am retuning it in a couple of weeks once we install the new Warlbro in tank 460 pump and will know more then...

But, I will pay more attention to what you are resolving and see what if anything applies to me. Please let me know if I can help you in anyway...

good luck!
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

We haven't yet purchased them at this point. Once we get them, we will check the quality on them and report back. My guess is that we'll have one for each the GR and GD within the next few weeks.

It's not a complicated part, so the only potential issue would be with fitment. The price is great and the function should be the same as the Sparco bar.

You'll have to help me understand what you mean about "we haven't purchased them yet". The Cipher website had them for the 08+ Hatch
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

Me and Smitty are working on his STI and my WRX. We are planning to get one of the bars for each car. And will report back on fitment, quality, etc.
Got it! def. looking forward to the result.
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

That sucks, all i have to say is that my original block got manhandled during honing. The actual sleeve was ripped from the motor while on the machine. Sean @ vigilant where as he takes care of all the balancing and assembly and the machining is done out of house he still covered getting me a whole new engine block and went back re did all the clearences etc with nothing more out of my pocket than what I originally paid and only set me back about 4 more days from original date of completetion.

What I'm trying to get at is if your local machine shop hasn't actually done a subaru engine before I would really look into giving him a call just based on how everything was handled for myself and that he also specializes in sleeved blocks. There isn't a problem that he won't fix or straighten out and you can trust that it will be done right without a doubt. Vigilant is in Missouri just outside of STL and depending on where you are in Ohio it can be a driveable trip.

Still best of luck with the build whatever the route. I hate to see unexpected down time as I'm used to it myself and know how much of a turn off from everything that it is.
That is how this should have been handled, unfortunately it was not and cost me more. Customer service is a ***** I guess.

The local shop has machined many Subaru blocks with near perfect results and I will be there to supervise the situation to make sure it is done correctly this time.

Benson also "specializes" in sleeved blocks but from what I have found out he isnt in the know about these engines as much as he should be epically considering who he does most of his Subaru sleeves for :mad:

Obviously for the next one I will be going elsewhere and I have some ideas where. I need to make some calls about that but there is no rush. Vigilant is on the list but other are ahead of them right now.

sucks man.. hope all works out for you!
Thanks!

Smitty,
I have been following your build. I have the used block out of my 2011 in Louisville KY. I'll help you out big if you need the block. I had #4 factory ring crack at 12k miles of ownership and bought a new built engine, etc. I don't know your needs as of today, but if this will help let me know. Sorry about the roadblock in your progress.
I really appreciate the offer man! I dont need another one at the moment but if your actually looking to get rid of it I may be interested in taking it off your hands lol.

hmmmm. good stuff in here for sure, sorry it had to be at the expense of your wallet. Thats pretty arrogant how he treated you, I really think you named the big ones, using proper torque sequence with the same bolts you intend to run using the lube that was supplied with them during all steps from honing to measuing. Without question a torque plate for these squirmy little blocks. We never left any bearings in (except for measuring mains), now I'm interested throwing in a set on a spare block to check the specs.

Oh here is your long term fix....

Billet EVO Block Their EVO block holding 65 psi... I think that should be good. :devil:
Yep, there are so many things you need to do to make sure these engines come out right and you expect one of the big name machine shops for this kind of work especially on that does the sleeves for one of the big name ships would be doing theses things without question. Maybe if it were easier to contact that him more questions would have been asked but I specifically asked about TQ plates the first time and was told they were used. I guess there was some confusion there and I didnt feel the need to keep asking questions considering the reputation and clientele for the shop.

I do wish I could afford that Billet block or better yet make my own. The billet for that damn thing alone before machining is going to be so expensive but it does fix almost all of the shortcomings I noted.

Have you fit the Cipher Racing Harness Bar yet? I saw it listed for the '08+ Hatch. This looks like a good option and sure beats the $400+ for the sparco bar.
As Mark noted, we have not, but we are in contact with Cypher about them. I am interested to see the quality and fitment on it. It is not a complicated part to make and there is no reason that the MachV and Sparco ones should cost what they do. It isn't like they have to recoup any money from getting the certified or anything like that.

Anybody heard anything on that billet block running as yet?
I haven't seen anything on them. I saw the video a long time ago but hear nothing since it was posted here. I imagine that it is priced well out of most peoples budgets even the semi large race teams. A good engine is $10-15K and that would just cover that block, I believe they are $10K or something crazy.

Wow, I lost touch with your thread and just read what the resolution was with Benson. It makes me wonder if I need to follow up a bit more on what he did with mine. I was under the impression he used a torque plate. I was also told he used my H11 studs we sent him when he did the sleeve work and his part of the machining. [I have not had any of the H11 issues that were in the nabisco thread]. When my local builder completed my block (with a torque plate), all specs were good (but... I have yet to see the actual numbers... they are 'lost' on SCR's computers, I was assured that it was within spec and I trust my builder). My engine has performed very well since it was done - I have about 5k miles on it - all daily driving, no track days. It is a much more solid feeling engine than my last rebuild (quiet as OEM once warmed up). I am retuning it in a couple of weeks once we install the new Warlbro in tank 460 pump and will know more then...

But, I will pay more attention to what you are resolving and see what if anything applies to me. Please let me know if I can help you in anyway...

good luck!
Thanks man, it seems that his results vary much more than he claimed on the phone the day we found the problem. He told us his tolerance was half a thousandth which obviously it isn't. He claimed that when he got mine and measured it and saw it was outside his claimed tolerance that he called Dom at Maxwell and Dom stated that he sees, conveniently enough, the same measurements that Dan was claiming to see on mine and he doesn't have any problems with them.

I have a lot of problems with this. First, I doubt Dan measured the diagonal l measurement like we told him to since it was the furthest out. Second, the comment of not seeing bore gauge marks basically implying we either measured with something else or didn't measure at all. Third, I have read enough of Dom's stuff to find it hard to velieve he would be OK with these results. Lastly, how does it take this situation for you to call the main shop for which you do your sleeving for Subaru's and you have never found this out until now and how does Dom not call Benson the first time they saw this result. Somehow it took this situation to make a call happen between those two which is hard to believe.

Like you, I was told a TQ plate was used so I guess I am not crazy there because I do remember that.

I wouldn't be worried about yours. It seemed that when I talked to SCR that he was a straight shooter and knew what he was doing/taking about and if it is running well then I would think it is OK. It is very believable to me that yours could be 100% fine and mine was out that much since he isnt using TQ plates. I dont doubt that these vary that much.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,175 (Edited)
Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

04/30/12 - Build 2 Day 24

Since I still have no turbo and therefore, no exhaust or intercooler and the suspension is about finished and the interior is waiting on fuel lines and wiring to be run and the engine is not built etc., I worked on the new intake manifold this weekend.

I was finally able to find a short runner version of the 2.5i manifold and got it very cheap so I bought it. Of course, there is a bunch of **** on it that is useless and needs to be removed. Additionally there are some things that need to be modified to make it fit correctly. Yesterday I got started removing the useless items and prepping it for porting.

For starters, here are some general pics and comparison to the STI manifold. As you can see, the inner holes for the TGV housing are different. I have no logical explanation for why this is done, I guess Subaru likes having to make multiple gaskets because two holes are moved 3mm ... seems ****ing stupid to me from an engineering and manufacturing standpoint. The typical solution to this is to notch the holes, I may just weld the holes up and re-drill completely though where I want them. I haven’t decided yet. The throttle body fits on there with no issues so that is nice and will not cause any problems. You can see that the tap for the brake booster is still there where it is on the STI manifold. The tap that typically runs to the fuel pressure regulator is now under the manifold which is perfect for where I want to mount the new pressure regulator. Most importantly, you can see the significant increase in Plenum and runner size :naughty:.















So as you can see above all the **** that has to come off is marked. I spent yesterday cleaning up the outside and removing what is unnecessary. I got it mostly finished however there is still some smoothing necessary and a couple more grits that I need to go through to have the outside to a point that it can be coated.

Here are the tools of the trade, not shown and probably most important, is the electric die grinder. The electric one is nice for large amounts of material removal. I find that on more precise areas, the air grinder is better because speed is controllable. Anyone that wants to complain about the price of porting ****, go ahead and price out the stack of tools and the time necessary to do this work. :tup:



The first thing I did was cut off the top of the plenum. The reason for this is that I need to port the inside of it and do some work in there, this makes it easier.





After that it is time to get the electric die grinder and a 3" cutoff wheel and go to work. If you are planning on doing this with a dremel, you are dreaming, you will go through a pack of tiny *** cutoff wheels in 20 minutes at $7 a pack. I was able to cut off all the parts I needed to with one 3" wheel and it is still useable and the pack of 10 3" wheels is the same price as the pack of dremel wheels. Here are some pics after cutting.





As you can see there are now some holes that will need to be welded up and cleaned up when I port the inside of the manifold. Once the rough cutting was done, I used the burrs to further rough cut the extra ****. You better be using non-ferrous specific burrs for this or they won’t be lasting long and will just clog. Here are some pics after the burr.





Once the rough cutting was done then the sanding drums were used to smooth things out. I got through the 60 grit drums but have two more to go before I call this thing done and ready for coating. I also need to get the welding done before I can finish up the outside.





And here is a pile of only some of the mess created. Be prepared to do some serious clean up after this or do it outside. I used the shop vacuum to help control the chips and dust and suck **** up as I was going, I just had it attached to the work bench and it did a good job of sucking up most chips as I went and kept the mess down.



Tonight I am going to finish up the outside to the point that I think it is ready for welding and I will port the plenum so more pics to come.

Some may be waiting on the engine update so here it is:

I got the replacement from Benson on Friday but I did not have much time really inspect it. I did take it out of the box to make sure nothing looked strange and what I notices is:
  • The deck surface is 100% better than what I had previously. If you recall, I could catch a fingernail between my sleeve and the original aluminum. The old block had the sleeve sitting slightly below the deck surface, we measured about a half thousandth. This one is perfect. I can close my eyes and run my finger over it and not know there is a material change.
  • The casting is a 702 casting, obviously mine was a 704. There is not a problem with this other than that the 704 is a much cleaner casting. I will probably clean up the flash a little bit on this before taking it to the shop for the hone.
  • The lign hone on this one looks to be as nice as the last one.
  • It’s dirty as ****, I still don’t believe these come out of a hot tank like this but whatever. :rolleyes:
  • The bore looks good; obviously the hone has not been done. I may measure the bores as is befor the honing process.
Tonight I am going to inspect it closely and get some pics and get it cleaned up and ready for the final honing process.
 

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Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

you cray cray
 

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Discussion Starter #1,179 (Edited)
Re: Smitty's 2011 DGM STI Sedan - Track Build Underway

Very nice! I know EFI used to make a few modded 2.5i manifolds(they don't anymore) because the airflow is SO much better.

A lot of work, but totally worth it :D
They flow great, better than the overpriced Cosworth bull**** ... cost me $100 bucks ... $100 or so in new drums and burrs and some time and I have a better manifold than that $1K garbage lol.
 

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I want one.
 
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