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Discussion Starter #1
It is quite strange to me how the classing of the STi and Evo are at this time. I am wondering if any one else might shed a light here.

Evo 8 is classified in AS (A stock) with E46 M3s, E55 AMG, NSX, M Coupe, Boxter S, ZR-1, etc.

STi is not classified explicitly as of yet, but Subaru NOC (not otherwise classified) is HS.

On top of it all, Evo 8 is ESP (E street prepare) with SP modifications, and Subaru's 4WD Turbo NOCs are listed as FSP.

In short, what this means to me is since stock Evo 8 is in AS, most likely STi will be in AS as well. In that class, I do not think they will be very competitive. But, if modified and under SP classes, Evo 8 would be very competitive and a great advantage to have. Furthermore, if STi is left under NOC and in FSP, it would be even more competitive and almost impossible to beat even with an average driver.

On the other hand, the 350Z being in the B Stock category without any modifications, it would have the advantage over Evo 8 and STi as well as M3s (E36 and E46).

Any comments???
 

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I've been assuming I will run the STi in the same classes as the Evo, at least until we get word in Fasttrack. I don't think I'll get any protests, especially if I'm moving it up. I can almost guarantee I'd get a huge amount of flak if I tried to run it in HS -- that just seems ludicrous. Given the WRX in DS, we're kind of left with SS, AS, and BS as choices -- which it belongs in, I don't know and will be fascinated to see after this year.

I've been intending to run it in ESP, though of course that could change on me. I'm really hoping it doesn't go into BSP or ASP -- if it does I'll just go straight to SM. I think they're kind of in a bind there, as they need to have a SP class that has a PAX less than SM, yet higher than AS/BS. That doesn't leave much -- basically ESP.

What makes me wonder what I'm missing is the AS vs. ESP decision. In ESP I can do a bunch of things to the car, including stiffer springs, wider rims, exhaust and intake, etc. Yet I get an equal or better PAX, and looking at national tour results, the cars might be a bit slower than the AS cars (as you'd expect from PAX). Why wouldn't I want to run ESP? SM I can see -- while I gain the ability to mess with the turbo, I get a worse PAX and my competition is harder (obviously varies depending on who's running in your area).

You mention that the 350Z in BS has an advantage. How so? (I'm not disagreeing so much as wondering what your thinking is). The PAX isn't much different right now (BS: 0.825, AS: 0.828). Are you thinking of the competetion in the class, that the 350Z has an easier time of it? While the S2000's in our region don't do much, nationally they seem to definately be the car to beat (quite a few national tours the top BS car has beaten the AS cars). AS has the raft of Corvettes to fight (one reason I'll go to ESP).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You are reading my mind :D

I'd rather have a car that I can do the right modifications and stay in ESP than, god forbid, be in ASP. I also would rather go all the way to SM, again rather than be in ASP.

Any how, to set the stage: I am looking in to obtaining a second car for Solo 2 and in the future Solo 1 events. I want to car to be new, keep it stock for about a season and then start modifying where ever it needs it. In this quest, I am trying to find a car that will give me the most in both solo 1 and 2 configurations; hence the STi, Evo, and the 350Z (I am still a RWD person :)).

In terms of the 350Z being in the BS class: the main competition are the E36 M3s and S2000s. The 350Z has more hp and trq than either one of them, it has better and stiffer and less roll in stock form than the E36 M3s and you do not really have to keep the revs as high as the S2000 to get going. So, I think the 350Z has a visible advantage over those cars in stock form. In modified form, I do not know at this time which class it gets in to, ASP (like the S2000)?

Hence, depending on how the classifications are settled going over to the next season with SCCA re: STi and Evo; they may be the right cars for the long haul :wink:
 

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I'm pretty sure the 350Z has not been classified in SP yet (nothing in the 2003 rules, nothing in the FasTracks). Technically it goes in ASP given the current rules, but lots of people are running them in BSP. I don't know where it will get officially classified of course.

That leaves you with all three cars being somewhat of a mystery for long-term classification (well, 350Z will probably stay in BS). Interesting that the STi and Evo start in a higher class but then go lower than the 350Z (AS->ESP->SM vs. BS->ASP->SM2). In stock form the STi/Evo is expected to be 0.2/60 seconds faster than the 350Z, but in SP form 1.0 to 1.4 seconds slower, and 1.2 seconds slower in SM/SM2 form. The latter is terribly complicated since the Z can add FI while the STi/Evo can play with boost, but in SP form I'd think they wouldn't have such unequal gain.

In my case I need a semi-practical 4-door car that fits child seats in the back seat (at least occasionally). It also has to be my daily driver to work, and meet my needs for autocross and ideally occasional hill climbs and HPDEs (track driving schools). This doesn't leave many cars, especially if cost is included (goodbye M5, new 911, new M3). STi, Evo, RX-8, BMW 330i, WRX, Audi S4. The 330i is nice, but fairly expensive and doesn't match the STi in performance. The RX-8 is intriguing. For a variety of reasons I've decided on the STi over the Evo.

I've thought about a dedicated autocross car, like a Spec Miata, or a SM2 Miata (how about 1999 Sport Miata with an RX-8 engine, ready for a supercharger). The problem is that a F125 kart would be a lot cheaper and more fun. Not terribly practical though.

My long term plan is to run the STi and have fun with it, watch the stock market soar to new heights, then buy a 911 GT3. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
2004 STi @ MSRP

WRX_Mundi said:
...My long term plan is to run the STi and have fun with it, watch the stock market soar to new heights, then buy a 911 GT3. :)
:lol: Amen to that!

Well, it looks like we have very similar thoughts, except that I gave up having a car that can do it all. The 330Ci is truly a wonderful car, I just cannot let it go; it does not do any one thing exceptionally, but it does all that I need and want at this time. Also, the BMWCCA community is the best that I have been part of thus far, and don't want to give that up either :) Adding a second car to to the Bimmer is the only logical choice for me.

Good luck to you :)
 

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Ya know, letter of the rules could be interpreted to say that you could run your STi in HS being as is is a Subaru and is "Not Otherwise Classified". :)

Not that I would do it, but I hope the STi gets classed soon..
 

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I just ran my STI in the Siskiyou Sports Car Club (http://www.ssccmedford.com/) event this past weekend. They decided to class me in DS (D Stock) with the WRX because the car is not classed, however they felt HS would be protested.

I did pretty well, it was my first time out on a track in this car, I still have a lot of learning to do. I improved my time each run. At the end of the morning session I had best time in my class, but left before the afternoon session and the official race results haven't been posted yet.

The I put the tires to work, over the course of the two days I must have taken at least 2k miles worth of tread off em. They heat up nicely and got quite a bit stickier than I was expecting. I didn't up the pressure as much as I should have (43 front/41 rear), they had a bit more roll over wear than I would have liked to see.

Everything went very well overall, nothing broke =) The car got lots of attention, there aren't many up in the Pacific North West so its still rare enough to be one of the star attractions.
 

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93 up north

I'll be in SM at my next event. Greddy intake, Invidia Downpipe and manual boost controller should do the trick ;) now I just have to learn to drive it as well as I could drive my totally stock 2002 WRX :D
 

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Before I went to my local AutoX I asked the head of SCCA Pro racing the classification and his response after consulting with the Solo board was AS for the STI.
 

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AS is the correct classification from everything I have heard. However the index difference between AS and SM is .006. SM allows more modification to the car and I have chosen to go this route and take the .006 multiplier penalty since I really like the increased power the downpipe, intake and boost controller will give, especially at lower RPM's.
 

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August FastTrack came out in late June and it is officially AS. I ran July 4th in AS. Results were pretty good, even though I was horrible with the car (bad lines due to insane acceleration, too slow entering corners due to not knowing how the car rotates, tried to back off throttle after 5.5k rpm since it was at 850 miles). I beat the times of the 5 cars in ESP, and the 5 cars in SM (no really fast ESP or SM people there), but lost in AS by 2.5 seconds. The winner in AS is a former national champion and has a well prepared Corvette with race tires that he's been driving for a while, and he placed 3rd in PAX, so it isn't like I was surprised. He's typically 2 seconds faster than a lot of car owners driving their cars.

I'm planning to run in ESP. That lets me do most of the stuff I want with the car, gives me an even better PAX than AS, and the modifications are limited enough that I don't have to spend a fortune to compete. On the down-side, not being able to touch boost really bites in a WRX or STi, so I may end up in SM someday.

Medford, huh? I've been thinking it would be fun to go to an event there since my parents live nearby. I'm not sure I'll get out this year though -- too many other events.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It is AS, even though still shows NOC; but I missed the last issue of the SCCA letter, so I do not know if there was anything in it. I have been competing in AS with the Evos and other STis. Also, it looks like ESP still stands, which is a huge advantage, so let's go ahead modify the vehicle for next season and run ESP ")

However, again, I might have missed something in between monthly letters, but the 2004 season rules should come out within couple of months I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
STi Forester

i just noticed that in FSP it says All Subaru 4WD Turbo (all NOC - not otherwise classified) is listed. Hmmm, then we can run the STi in FSP, no other car would have a chance in that class independent of the driver.

Any how, wrote an e-mail to the chairman for clarification, I'll post his response if he does respond.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
B11s concept car

OK, Doug Gill - SCCA Solo Technical Manager - replied quickly and he says... "The WRX STi was not available when the 2003 Rules were published, so it wouldn't go there [FSP] just because it says NOC. However, the WRX is classed in ESP (and so has the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8). Since the STi version has not been specifically listed in Street Prepared, you could enter it as a version of the WRX (which it is) in ESP or enter it in ASP since it hasn't been classed.

The 2004 Rules should be available in January."

Hope it is clear :)
 
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