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It's not about that. It's about the exclusivity, not "it's this much faster than a regular STi"
I think you are missing the point of this car, much like people don't see the point of a BRZ.
I think what a lot of people were hoping for was for Subaru to follow through on the forged pistons and they didn't, at the very last minute.

I can appreciate the exclusivity point of view, heck the Type RA has a good amount of that too, but I and others can't help feeling like Subaru gutted the heart of an S model for the sake of one step above an RA.

The S208 has much more of a bespoke interior than that of a Type RA and the first S209 has damn near the same interior of an RA - and I'm not trying to shine back on the RA, both of their interiors are way too similar to a regular STi.

Personally, I think STi could've done a little more than simply throwing the vast majority of their part's catalog, at what is effectively a Type RA at heart.
 

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I agree, I may just wait for the S210. And in the meantime build my 05 into a monster.
That's what I'm planning to do myself; I can't help thinking like the S210 will be the one to get, with Subaru insisting the S209 be a 2019. That leaves the door open for one last halo model STi and I think it'll be the S210.

Of course I could be way off base and we end up getting nothing, or some other lame "series" whatever, but I think we'll see something unique and I truly believe it'll have made all the waiting worth it.

In the meanwhile, I've got a Type RA and have nothing to complain about - life is good.
 

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"STi" has approval now for US markets now with acceptance of the S209. They are never going to be special like the JDM variants. The S210 and following S cars will be similar variants I'm afraid. :(
 

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"STi" has approval now for US markets now with acceptance of the S209. They are never going to be special like the JDM variants. The S210 and following S cars will be similar variants I'm afraid. :(
Just curious, do you still plan to move forward with your S209 purchase despite the lack of forged pistons?
 

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Just curious, do you still plan to move forward with your S209 purchase despite the lack of forged pistons?
This is a great question, and I don't have an answer for you yet as I'm mulling over alternative options.

I'm personally disappointed about the internals being the same/same. On the other hand I had no intentions of making it into a big power build like we've typically done, so the forged internals really have no bearing on our plans.

Tough choice as I firmly believe this will be the epitome of factory Subaru performance for the EJ powered STi, and like everyone else here, I love these cars.
 

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I don't see how the cast piston is more durable... Because it physically cannot be. But, they know their target base and what they'll believe, I suppose.
100% correct. From a mechanical engineering perspective, I can't see any benefits besides cost/time. I think for 65-70 thousand dollars, I could easily reach 600ish HP in my 05.

I think that's what I'll end up doing.
 

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"STi" has approval now for US markets now with acceptance of the S209. They are never going to be special like the JDM variants. The S210 and following S cars will be similar variants I'm afraid. :(

I think the S209 will be the first car to make a Type RA look like an actual bargain. :lol:

I'm grateful we're getting an S model; however, I would be lying if I didn't say that I'm disheartened by Subaru's last minute bait and switch. If the RA's pistons were 'good enough', why even bother stating the S209 would have forged internals?

To me, it looks like they went out of their way to water down the S209 to save face in their own market; Subaru, once again, keeping the best for themselves and hyping and then ultimately watering down what could've truly been something special.

I'm not here to hate, as I was amped out of my mind for the S209, but I've lost most all the wind in my sails for it.
 

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I don't see how the cast piston is more durable... Because it physically cannot be. But, they know their target base and what they'll believe, I suppose.
I'm assuming they meant longevity and something was lost in translation. That's the only way I can make any sense of it.

At the end of the day, this is an STi with bolt-ons for $60k. You can get a new C8 and a used truck for that much.
 

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I don't see how the cast piston is more durable... Because it physically cannot be. But, they know their target base and what they'll believe, I suppose.
I think if you read the marketing, it's just that. IMO what they are saying between the lines here is that the S pistons are stronger (and forged not necessary) because they are using the same 'upgraded' pistons that came in the RA (and 19+ STi).

It's a stretch, but I can't think of how else they can justify making that statement because otherwise it makes no sense. To the layman it sounds great, but to us Suby nerds, we know this is no upgrade compared to the current MY base engine.
 

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To the layman it sounds great, but to us Suby nerds, we know this is no upgrade compared to the current MY base engine.

Exactly.

I don't know anyone who is casually into Subarus that would be willing to drop between $60-70k+ on an STi, just because-because. People who buy S models know what they're getting and want said S model because of what it represents - the best of STi.

What the S209 is looking more and more to be is a glorified Type RA that had STi Japan's catalog thrown at it; I can't fathom how anyone would get excited about the S209 having damn near the same block as the base STi, that checks in at nearly 50% cheaper than the S209 will most likely be.

Yes, I know all about the exclusivity, the badge, the fenders - the holy intercooler water sprayer. :lol:

What it boils down to, for me, is that I'm not going to accept Subaru going back on their word - per their "announcement" in the eleventh hour. I can't logically justify the upgrade, from a Type RA, to an S209 that will share damn near the same block as I do and the base STi - **** that. I'll keep my cash in the bank and wait for Subaru to get the memo.
 

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It was well said on the other forum...

Subaru themselves were unsure what to call it and almost named it the 25B :lol:

Jalopnik said:
There was a branded plaque on the center console below the shifter, just like normal, but instead of reading “S209,” the plaque on this test mule read “25B.”

Yes, that’s right. 25B. You know... like the ultra-legendary, supercar-beating Subaru 22B from the late ‘90s.

When asked about the mismatch, Subaru explained that it considered giving the “25B” name to the new model, but felt it would be more appropriate to stick with the S-line naming scheme. Subaru North American business planner Yoshihide Yano seemed a bit frazzled when we noticed the strange plaque, but he explained the decision stemmed from higher-ups who were concerned about how the car would be sold in America.

“[Subaru] executives discussed [what] this car should be called...because it’s the first U.S. car [from STI],” Subaru North American business planner Yano told Jalopnik.

Yano wouldn’t explain deeper than that on why the company shied away from the “25B” branding, except for explaining that it was what Subaru used for internal development purposes.

Subaru spokesman Ron Kiino added some clarity in a followup email.

“Given the history of STI’s limited-edition models (22B followed by S201 through S208), it simply made sense to name the next car in sequence the S209 – especially since the car is US only and US-based STI fans have been clamoring for an S model for years,” Kiino told Jalopnik in an email.

So does this all mean the S209 is the spiritual successor to the 22B—the one true Subaru god? Sure. Maybe. Subaru at least thinks so, or did, just not enough to tell it to Americans.

The Subaru WRX STI S209 Was Almost Called the 25B
It's certainly not 22B legendary for the time period.. and Type RA-R wouldn't have sounded as appealing to the consumer even if it's more appropriate.

Subaru's main goal was to come up with a name for marketing that will help sell a $60-70k special edition Subaru in the US. The S209 name will help Subaru charge the most for the car without tarnishing the 22B legacy.

Maybe S251 would have been more appropriate? Indicating that it was the 1st 2.5L S series for the US market. This could have distinguished it from its JDM counterpart and not set such high expectations for it to be improved successor of the S208. Granted.. Subaru put it on a pedestal advertising that it would have a hand-built engine with forged pistons and then yanking that dream away.

It's great that Subaru is finally giving us an S car in the US, but it's a slightly watered down version of what the S207 & S208 were. But that tends to be the case with the STIs that we get in the US. Sure, it makes more peak power on paper, but there were a lot of missed opportunities for Subaru/STI to make it the best that they have to offer for the EJ's last hurrah.
 

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Base model STI and s209 could be a drivers race real world straight line. 30-40k price diff?

S209 hits TTRS territory price wise. 3300lb 5 cyl DI, lightly modded 500whp high 10 second car. Granted even light mods are expensive with the Audi.
 

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I can't logically justify the upgrade, from a Type RA, to an S209 that will share damn near the same block as I do and the base STi - **** that.
S209 is 5 seconds faster than the RA. That's a decent jump and will certainly be the reason for a good amount of the S cars selling.
 

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;)I'll never understand. You can buy a used but newish STI and build an actually fast car for that kind on money!!!
 

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;)I'll never understand. You can buy a used but newish STI and build an actually fast car for that kind on money maf
Then you would potentially be out of class rules. To some this matters.

Really if you look at any price range you'll find winners and losers. The winners don't always sell the most and the losers are not always the 'worst' cars. I think most rational people strive for a good value (bang-for-the-buck) and the USDM S car is too far from that ideal for a lot of us and that's what we angst over. Without too much of a struggle I (and I'm sure many of you) could come up with 10 cars that are over priced considering their performance specs or standings. They still sell, and many sell well.

Flagship cars are often overpriced undervalued and there are LOTS of examples of this in the car world. In the Subaru world we've not seen it because those cars have not been in our market before so I think we're all caught up in the initial shock of it. How dare Subaru give us a car that bests the RA and expect a exorbitant premium price! :lol:
 

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Then you would potentially be out of class rules. To some this matters.

Really if you look at any price range you'll find winners and losers. The winners don't always sell the most and the losers are not always the 'worst' cars. I think most rational people strive for a good value (bang-for-the-buck) and the USDM S car is too far from that ideal for a lot of us and that's what we angst over. Without too much of a struggle I (and I'm sure many of you) could come up with 10 cars that are over priced considering their performance specs or standings. They still sell, and many sell well.

Flagship cars are often overpriced undervalued and there are LOTS of examples of this in the car world. In the Subaru world we've not seen it because those cars have not been in our market before so I think we're all caught up in the initial shock of it. How dare Subaru give us a car that bests the RA and expect a exorbitant premium price! :lol:
Exactly what I think. To some, we want a car that is the whole package out of the box. Guess that means I'm getting old. But I myself wouldn't get a 209 because its not enough of a jump over my 2018. If I wanted to build a faster car, I'd buy mine at the end of the lease for 21k, it will have less than 20000 miles on it. Think of what I could do with only 10k in mods....But I won't. Been there done that with STI, it'll be time for something different. Same reason I didn't get an RA.
 

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Then you would potentially be out of class rules. To some this matters.

Really if you look at any price range you'll find winners and losers. The winners don't always sell the most and the losers are not always the 'worst' cars. I think most rational people strive for a good value (bang-for-the-buck) and the USDM S car is too far from that ideal for a lot of us and that's what we angst over. Without too much of a struggle I (and I'm sure many of you) could come up with 10 cars that are over priced considering their performance specs or standings. They still sell, and many sell well.

Flagship cars are often overpriced undervalued and there are LOTS of examples of this in the car world. In the Subaru world we've not seen it because those cars have not been in our market before so I think we're all caught up in the initial shock of it. How dare Subaru give us a car that bests the RA and expect a exorbitant premium price! :lol:

I'm not so much annoyed by the car itself, I'm more annoyed with STI / Subaru and the way they've handled rolling this car out to the US market. Someone previously mentioned that this car should have been called the S251, and I couldn't agree more. The S209 carrot should have never been dangled this side of the pond. And then to add insult to injury, they re-neg on the forged internals bit. Is this technically a halo STI for the US market? Yes. Is this a legitimate extension of the S20x family? Hell no.



This was supposed to be our Type R. Instead we got a Type S. :tdown:
 
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