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Put the HP aside... I still like the design of the S2000 more then the BRZ or FR-S. And I would rather have a STi then a BRZ. That's just my opinion.
I bet you may not know this, but this forum is for BRZ fanbois only.

IWSTi.com will be renamed BRZmanlove.com. The redirect will be up shortly.

Notice the sub-forum, "Subaru BRZ STI," even though no such model exists.
 

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The car is all new to Subaru, they had nothing like this before the BRZ. It is a new market, new model as well, but it is honestly a new market they weren't in before the BRZ. People who want a small RWD car didn't look to Subaru, it was a market they were not in.
Point taken.



Every car manufacturer wants a bigger slice of the pie. If you don't believe Subaru is marketing this car for more customers, you are saddly mistaken. Look at luxury car manufacturers making smaller and more economical cars, they make them to fill a market, just like Subaru is looking to sell to a certain market. It's swim or get eaten by sharks, Subaru can't use "the power of all-wheel drive" forever.
I didn't state that they weren't marketing for new customer...that's all most car companies want. Read what I said again. I said that it is NOT because of a bad reputation that they're doing this. In fact, Toyota needed this car more than Subaru ever did.


Subaru has people looking at forums, they do care. Buddy of mine had a cracked sunroof and a Subaru rep said he had seen the thread about it.
A cracked sunroof is a whole different story than what I mentioned: engine modifications. Good that he saw the thread but Subaru is a BIG company. While your friend's rep saw it, I'm doubting that there's an actual mandate for every Subaru dealer to allot time to read the Subaru forums just to determine if they're dropping the ball on their services.

And Subaru has been doing ECU reflashes on 2012 STI's. They do care, about not spending so much money on warranty repairs. Save a penny, earn a penny.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/warranty-service-issues/240686-had-ecu-updated-dealership-2012-sti.html

I've read the ECU updates thread 4-5 days ago. They don't apply to every car (there are a few people in that thread that were denied the updates). And apparently, no one has yet looked at what was 'fixed'. Until then, one shouldn't assume anything is fixed. That thread also highlighted an issue with the tune but I seriously doubt that the update addresses the tune across the board.


My Subaru dealership sells Cobb APs, and down pipes and catback exhausts and wheels. They also carry Motul Racing brake fluid. I don't know if they deny warranties if you install one though, but they realize what people are using the car for.
Well, that's the dealership. SOA won't be agreeing with that. I'm betting the dealer (and certainly SOA) won't be covering any mishaps.

You're missing the point I was making. The consumers who aren't brand loyal will definitely be doing internet searches on issues with the car. Internet marketing goes way beyond a Car And Driver blog and their review of a vehicle, what ever pops up in a search is what consumers will look at, even if they don't click the link and read the thread/post they'll read the header in the search. People don't want to spend money on repairs after their 30k mile warranty is up, and initial reports of large repairs only ads to the worry of the consumer, especially those who don't buy and sell a car every three years. But, if they are reading stuff that can easily be repaired after warranty, those become less of a problem.
Car and Driver. They don't do the things to their cars that IWSTI does...not even close. Car and Driver and their counterparts test stock vehicles for the most part, or vendors that are sanctioned by car manufacturers, at least. Car and Driver dont' go herrafrushed. The don't swap turbos and headers, and they don't install Hella horns. Sure, they're concerned about warranty. But they should be concerned about it no matter what car (BRZ or Impreza). Sorry, I'm not getting why warranty is such an issue for a Subaru that an average person expects to purchase. Subaru hasn't had issues covering standard warranty items, from what I've seen.

Look at the 944 Porsche, they should be worth more than they are on the used market (every other Porsche retains value), the issue is that they require expensive servicing and is what drives the value of them way down. It takes something like 20 hours to change a clutch in one of those, and the timing chain needs to be adjusted something ridiculous like every 8k miles. People don't want to spend money to fix cars, or be hassled with cars that leave them stranded while major repair need to be done.
944s are the bastard child of the Porsche company. Porsche is Porsche. When have their service EVER been cheap (in price). That's a Porsche issue (design and service-wise). If someone bought a Porsche and was expecting cheap maintenance...sucks to be them.



See above. Alot of people won't do anything more than read the header in an internet search. When you're hit with 20/100 threads that have "broken transmission" and another 10/100 that say "blown motor" then that person is more likely to look at another car/brand.
Half of them will say "broken transmission" but when you investigate further, you'll find something like "was running a Cobb" or "was protuned by company X". Bad.

This is where Subaru ranked in 2009 for repairs per 100 cars. If you think Subaru is happy where they are, then why did they team with Toyota who is ranked 1st, 4th and 5th? To share the money? No way, they don't like being where they are in reports like this. They have to spend money to make repairs which drives up future car prices so the company can survive.

Press Release - 2012 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study | J.D. Power
OK. This is news to me and you answered one of my comments above.

The engine tune is to deal with emission regulation requirements, nothing more. Look at the air pump they installed, it is strictly for smog and has an issue with failing and possibly leading to failed engine internals. Subaru denies it's there to meet smog regulations so they can deny emission warranties after the standard warranty is over. Remove the pump and try and get it smogged in California, the the tech will fail the vehicle on the visual inspection alone. How is that possible, Subaru claims it isn't there for emissions?

See above referance about ECU updates.

Oh, I'm very aware of the tune issue. I've already responded above. I'm not going to question Subaru in that. It's their car. They designed it. I don't really care about why, or if they're lying. It doesn't affect me now (I'm stock and will stay stock for awhile) and if the stock engine croaks, they'll deal with it and the repair will be covered under warranty. This isn't a huge deal to me. I've tooled around cars over the years, so all I want now is a functional car. It's working fine for me and when it doesn't, I'll get it serviced.
 

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I'm just saying that there are people on this forum who do in fact do some serious racing, not just (IMHO) boring auto-x.

There IS an F1 driver on the forum, who drives for Lotus, and had a bit of a shunt in Monaco. There's a thread about it.

Others of us race in other series, like Baja, FSAE, Hill climbs, boats, sailboats, airplanes, etc, etc.
Well I'll be damned. I'll go ahead and shut up now.
 

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I didn't state that they weren't marketing for new customer...that's all most car companies want. Read what I said again. I said that it is NOT because of a bad reputation that they're doing this. In fact, Toyota needed this car more than Subaru ever did.
You stated WRX and STI owners would be intersted in the BRZ, I never said they wouldn't be. The main point of introducing a new car (product) is to expand your potential customer demographic. Subaru owners are going to like the BRZ because it's a Subaru, some Miata owners will like it because it's another option, drifters are going to like it cause it's RWD. All Subaru is doing is casting more fishing rods into the water, who ever bites, bites.

How does the worlds largest automotive manufacturer need Subaru? Toyota is looking to make alot of money off the FRS, and they split the cost of designing the car. Again, a penny saved is a penny earned. This is a business decision that they will come out ahead on.

A cracked sunroof is a whole different story than what I mentioned: engine modifications. Good that he saw the thread but Subaru is a BIG company. While your friend's rep saw it, I'm doubting that there's an actual mandate for every Subaru dealer to allot time to read the Subaru forums just to determine if they're dropping the ball on their services.
No, it was a SOA rep, not a service writer. Dealerships are not owned or operated by Subaru.

The point was that reps are looking at these forums. Internet marketing is as valuable as Super Bowl commercials, if not more. Most people use the internet to make alot of their decisions on major purchases. Subaru recognizes this and is using it to their advantage to market the BRZ. Why allow the possibility of bad publicity if you (Subaru) have a direct influence to avoid it?

I've read the ECU updates thread 4-5 days ago. They don't apply to every car (there are a few people in that thread that were denied the updates). And apparently, no one has yet looked at what was 'fixed'. Until then, one shouldn't assume anything is fixed. That thread also highlighted an issue with the tune but I seriously doubt that the update addresses the tune across the board.
Then how can you make a remark that Subaru isn't doing anything about correcting tune issues? :confused: They've taken a step. They as a company can't go and make everything perfect without a system of checks and balances.

Not all Subarus react to a copy of a tune the same way. Some cars react to a Cobb tune very well while another will have alot of knock. The fact that some cars didn't get an update only shows Subaru thought those cars were running well on the tune they had.

Well, that's the dealership. SOA won't be agreeing with that. I'm betting the dealer (and certainly SOA) won't be covering any mishaps.
I already said I don't know what that dealership does for these instances.

Car and Driver. They don't do the things to their cars that IWSTI does...not even close. Car and Driver and their counterparts test stock vehicles for the most part, or vendors that are sanctioned by car manufacturers, at least. Car and Driver dont' go herrafrushed. The don't swap turbos and headers, and they don't install Hella horns. Sure, they're concerned about warranty. But they should be concerned about it no matter what car (BRZ or Impreza). Sorry, I'm not getting why warranty is such an issue for a Subaru that an average person expects to purchase. Subaru hasn't had issues covering standard warranty items, from what I've seen.
Again, your missing the point. Doing a search for "WRX problems" doesn't bring up C&D, or any other publication, it brings up mostly forum posts that consumers can skim over and miss the point the car was moddified.

944s are the bastard child of the Porsche company. Porsche is Porsche. When have their service EVER been cheap (in price). That's a Porsche issue (design and service-wise). If someone bought a Porsche and was expecting cheap maintenance...sucks to be them.
It doesn't take 20 hours to change a clutch in a 911. The price of a 911 the same model year and in the same condition as a 944 will always sell for more. Even more than the turbo 944, even though the turbo is more rare than a standard 911. Repair cost play a direct role in what cars people buy, be it collector cars or daily driver.

Half of them will say "broken transmission" but when you investigate further, you'll find something like "was running a Cobb" or "was protuned by company X". Bad.
Again, some people won't investigate. They'll skim, and then pass on buying the car if there's bad publicity. Why not slowly immerse the BRZ into the market so a bunch of good things are said and the shadow of doubt doesn't become an issue to consumers?

Like I said earlier, tuners will have an understanding about modifying and tuning these cars well before a bad rep comes out. In fact, those tuners will be able to find the limits of what the car is capable of and help sales when a forced induction engine is introduced.

OK. This is news to me and you answered one of my comments above.
Oh, I'm very aware of the tune issue. I've already responded above. I'm not going to question Subaru in that. It's their car. They designed it. I don't really care about why, or if they're lying. It doesn't affect me now (I'm stock and will stay stock for awhile) and if the stock engine croaks, they'll deal with it and the repair will be covered under warranty. This isn't a huge deal to me. I've tooled around cars over the years, so all I want now is a functional car. It's working fine for me and when it doesn't, I'll get it serviced.
Would you mod your car if there weren't as many instances of engine failures? Would you be even more likely to mod your engine if there was zero reports of blown engines? Bad reputations of major repairs play a huge role in the choices people make, and you are proof of that when you declared you won't modify the engine as long as it's under warrant.

Psychology is a major thought in marketing as most purchases are impulsive. Limiting fear is all Subaru is doing by holding back on releasing a forced induction BRZ and allowing people to blow-up engines.
 

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Would you mod your car if there weren't as many instances of engine failures? Would you be even more likely to mod your engine if there was zero reports of blown engines? Bad reputations of major repairs play a huge role in the choices people make, and you are proof of that when you declared you won't modify the engine as long as it's under warrant.

Psychology is a major thought in marketing as most purchases are impulsive. Limiting fear is all Subaru is doing by holding back on releasing a forced induction BRZ and allowing people to blow-up engines.
I'd have to say this is spot on for me at least. When I flashed AP on my 06 at 7k miles, and put DP on it at 14k miles, I didn't even think twice about negatively affecting the reliability, because back then I've never heard of such concerns from mild mods like stage 2. Now all of a sudden even stock engines have problems... I love my older Subies, but I won't be buy anything new until they sort it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
i did not realize the s2k was so expensive brand new. i boght a ap1 2000 for 10 grand lol... and had 100k miles and still was a brand new car! i love the qality of interior.. i dont think a brz can even comepare to the s2000.. the only thing i think it beats the s200 in is the lower center of gravity.. but the s2000 is a way better track platform STILL. if you go to a track day with 215 tires people will laugh at you lol.. (i put 245 45r16 on my s2k)
 

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i did not realize the s2k was so expensive brand new. i boght a ap1 2000 for 10 grand lol... and had 100k miles and still was a brand new car! i love the qality of interior.. i dont think a brz can even comepare to the s2000..
Already given.

the only thing i think it beats the s200 in is the lower center of gravity.. but the s2000 is a way better track platform STILL. if you go to a track day with 215 tires people will laugh at you lol.. (i put 245 45r16 on my s2k)
Why would people laugh at you for putting 215's? Seriously, you are really insecure.
 

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i did not realize the s2k was so expensive brand new. i boght a ap1 2000 for 10 grand lol... and had 100k miles and still was a brand new car! i love the qality of interior.. i dont think a brz can even comepare to the s2000.. the only thing i think it beats the s200 in is the lower center of gravity.. but the s2000 is a way better track platform STILL. if you go to a track day with 215 tires people will laugh at you lol.. (i put 245 45r16 on my s2k)
Have you tried putting a set of rims in your S2000? You really have put no effort into learning anything about the BRZ.

As for tire sizes on track cars, there's plenty running tires much smaller than what comes on the BRZ. Look at Miatas. And ya, seriously. Why would anyone laugh at someone for enjoying their day at a track? That's probably the dumbest thing you've posted on this forum, and ther's been quite a few dumb posts.

I'm sure the DSM community was sad to see you leave. Your threads are epic.
 

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Don't have to read the entire thread but I would just leave this out there

s2000 MSRP was $30k in the beginning and ended its run at $35k
BRZ MSRP is $25k.. so how much more do you want for a car at that price and one that isn't the "flagship" model for the brand
 

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Wow. This thread was revived from August 2012.

I had a BRZ before the STi. It was awesome. Could've been faster, but it was fun as hell.

Got rid of it because it was too impractical (had a kid). Also, torque dip with the stock header was pretty bad. An aftermarket UEL header fixed this, but then made the car way too loud (for me).
 
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