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It was not made to compete with the S2K.

Read and you shall be informed...

2013 Subaru BRZ Side In Motion Photo 1


As a side note... I drove the brz... I think it's complete garbage, my wife who thought she wanted one agreed. It doesn't feel like a Subaru to me. Maybe when they make a "wrx or sti" version it will be better , even though it is not AWD.
 

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I would rather have an s2000 than a brz any day.
2 seater, looks better, convertible, quicker, high reving, not the same car as a Scion. Very cheap for used at this point, long lasting Honda engine. The list goes on. Would be a nice 2nd car after the STi of course.
 

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To postulate on the question of why subie would release a BRZ with such low horsepower:

Because at this point the car is selling as is to those who really want it, and are more of a I like the way it looks kind of people. So they are making sales, and that's what really matters to them.

For the most part in the car world they need to improve every so many years. Simply put the BRZ will probably just get additional horsepower, and once again sales will resume.

Personally I have seen more BRZs running around town than I have seen 11+ year model STIs. Its a dang good looking car in person I will admit.
 

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I would rather have an s2000 than a brz any day.
2 seater, looks better, convertible, quicker, high reving, not the same car as a Scion. Very cheap for used at this point, long lasting Honda engine. The list goes on. Would be a nice 2nd car after the STi of course.

But that's not what the OP asked. He asked why it lacked power, compared to the S2000, and why it wasn't faster.

You're not saying anything that hasn't been said hundreds of times in the BRZ STI sub-forum.

And your statements don't change the fact that the S2000 is dead. You're comparing a car that's 3 years dead to a new one that's in a totally different market segment than was the dead car. MSRP for a 2009 S2000 was a bit over $37K. MSRP for a Limited BRZ is $27K (the Premium is lower). Huge difference there, and it highlights the fact that Subaru/Toyota wants to keep the pricing low. If they marketed the BRZ as a $37K car, you can bet you'd be seeing a better car to compare to the S2000. Maybe that'll happen in the next iteration or two.

Sure, S2000s are good buys now but I can say that for any used sports car.

The S2000 is/was a nice car, but it's really not a good car to compare with the BRZ.

I do wonder how many BRZ/FR-S owners own or have owned WRXs/STIs. I'm betting not many. I'm also wondering if there are many WRX/STI owners that have actually tracked (on a regular basis) small HP cars and small-sized cars. I don't think many Subaru owners get the "less is more" ideology.
 

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This BRZ model is comparative to a 2.5i Impreza. The market Subaru is after would have been lost if they came out with a FI engine from the get go. People do not understand this, and when Subaru does decide to give us a FI variant people will be making comments like "why didn't they give us this to begin with?". The answer is, because they didn't want people modifying it and wrecking engines to give the platform a bad reputation. This car doesn't have the heritage of WRC, like the WRX did when it came to the US, that helped boost it's sales. By the time a FI engine is available, tuners will already have figured out how to tune the car for FI and Subaru will be comfortable to release it. Think about the masses of people who would think twice about buying a BRZ if there was a bad reputation on the internet cause Joe-schmoe threw every bolt-on part available and went crying to the interwebs because of his poor decision.
 

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S2K is an awesome car. Dead or not, I want one, with a hard top.

BRZ. Looks like a fat chick with skinny legs. Those wheels are a crime against nature. Never buy the first MY of a new Subaru platform. The next iteration will no doubt be 100x more awesome.

F1 driver. Tell us who you are because F1 is fucking awesome and you can't just drop that without saying who you are.
 

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This BRZ model is comparative to a 2.5i Impreza. The market Subaru is after would have been lost if they came out with a FI engine from the get go. People do not understand this, and when Subaru does decide to give us a FI variant people will be making comments like "why didn't they give us this to begin with?". The answer is, because they didn't want people modifying it and wrecking engines to give the platform a bad reputation. This car doesn't have the heritage of WRC, like the WRX did when it came to the US, that helped boost it's sales. By the time a FI engine is available, tuners will already have figured out how to tune the car for FI and Subaru will be comfortable to release it. Think about the masses of people who would think twice about buying a BRZ if there was a bad reputation on the internet cause Joe-schmoe threw every bolt-on part available and went crying to the interwebs because of his poor decision.
The thing is, more than likely, most people aren't going to be modding their BRZs with performance mods. IWSTI and the other forums are niche, but while WE may do it, the rest of the world doesn't really care about such things.
 

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The thing is, more than likely, most people aren't going to be modding their BRZs with performance mods. IWSTI and the other forums are niche, but while WE may do it, the rest of the world doesn't really care about such things.
Go run a search for "Subaru WRX problems" and look at how many post come up with major problems.

Do the same for the BRZ.

Most of the WRX transmission problem stem from modifying the engine for more power, all people see when they read this is $$$ to repair the car. This niche market does alot of reporting on the internet, and even a quick search (as above) can deter people from wanting to buy one, especially if they're not Subaru loyal. Subaru stepped into a new market, and is trying to win new customers, and is being conservative to keep bad publicity down. Last thing they want are threads saying "warranty denied", even though most people won't mod their BRZ, the slim few who do have a major impact on reporting problems on the webs. The few posts about loose panels and condensation in the taillight of the BRZ also state the dealership is fixing the problem under warranty, that makes people more comfortable to try something new and exciting.
 

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I don't suppose anyone here has done serious road racing (IE 24 hours of Nurburgring) and been good at it.
I'm just saying that there are people on this forum who do in fact do some serious racing, not just (IMHO) boring auto-x.

There IS an F1 driver on the forum, who drives for Lotus, and had a bit of a shunt in Monaco. There's a thread about it.

Others of us race in other series, like Baja, FSAE, Hill climbs, boats, sailboats, airplanes, etc, etc.
 

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There IS an F1 driver on the forum, who drives for Lotus, and had a bit of a shunt in Monaco. There's a thread about it.

Others of us race in other series, like Baja, FSAE, Hill climbs, boats, sailboats, airplanes, etc, etc.
If this is true that would be awesome and I will certainly start watching. The company I work for just recently made a sponsorship deal with Lotus.

Avanade - Avanade and Lotus F1 team to drive performance improvements on and off the track with cutting edge technology
 

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I'm just saying that there are people on this forum who do in fact do some serious racing, not just (IMHO) boring auto-x.

There IS an F1 driver on the forum, who drives for Lotus, and had a bit of a shunt in Monaco. There's a thread about it.

Others of us race in other series, like Baja, FSAE, Hill climbs, boats, sailboats, airplanes, etc, etc.
Hmmm I missed that thread about Conor. To be fair, GP3 =/= F1 but still, Conor is the man on this board for sure.

What series do you race in Blu?
 

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Go run a search for "Subaru WRX problems" and look at how many post come up with major problems.

Do the same for the BRZ.

Most of the WRX transmission problem stem from modifying the engine for more power, all people see when they read this is $$$ to repair the car. This niche market does alot of reporting on the internet, and even a quick search (as above) can deter people from wanting to buy one, especially if they're not Subaru loyal. Subaru stepped into a new market, and is trying to win new customers, and is being conservative to keep bad publicity down. Last thing they want are threads saying "warranty denied", even though most people won't mod their BRZ, the slim few who do have a major impact on reporting problems on the webs. The few posts about loose panels and condensation in the taillight of the BRZ also state the dealership is fixing the problem under warranty, that makes people more comfortable to try something new and exciting.
I don't think Subaru has stepped into a new market. The BRZ is a new model, with some different focus on the car being sold, yeah, but the same people that are interested in a WRX can be interested in a BRZ...it depends on the needs of the potential buyer. I've not read anything that states or even hints that Subaru is trying to win new customers and don't want bad publicity due to what you state. I don't think they care bout IWSTI and other sites, otherwise they'd be fixing the stock tune of the WRX/STIs. If a guy comes to the dealership in a BRZ that has engine mods and a Cobb AP, they'll turn him away just as they would anyone else. They're fixing those loose panels and condensation issues because that's what they're supposed to do under warranty, seeing as all BRZs are still less than a year old.

If I searched for 'Subaru WRX problems' and read through them, I'm betting a majority of them would hint at someone being tuned and modded...that's not a problem with the car, as the car was making power beyond the design limits of the transmission (from your example). That's a people issue, not a parts issue. Where are you seeing/reading that Subaru has a major public image issue regarding faulty parts or shoddy workmanship?

Me? I've no engine mods. When I first bought the STI, I stated in my first post on IWSTI that I wouldn't be modifying the engine because I don't want issues with SOA if/when the engine starts giving me trouble. I'm still mod-less, going on a year. I've never owned a Subaru before now, but I didn't see any build quality issues when I was conducting research either (other than the stock tune issue). I autocross the car and trust me when I say that I'm happy with how the car performs, and I haven't even fully tapped the car's potential. If and when I decide to add power, I know that I'll be fixing my own engine from then on (I'm not rich but I can definitely afford to build another engine if need be). Plus, I'm 45 years old with a busy job and busy family life. I don't have a lot of time to be tinkering with the car, whether I'm adding mods or if I'm repairing the car. While I love my STI, it's just a car. I bought it to drive it, to work or on a track. While I realize most people on IWSTI have engine mods, I can understand SOA's standpoint on why they deny claims (although I still can't understand why the stock tune is so weak/dangerous). I'm a strong proponent of "you play, you pay". I don't need to join the pity party.
 

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Hmmm I missed that thread about Conor. To be fair, GP3 =/= F1 but still, Conor is the man on this board for sure.

What series do you race in Blu?
Not much anymore. FSAE and local hill climbs, I'm assisting a friend with finishing up his truck for off-road racing, I help a friend out with some dirt track stuff.

Nowadays I'm lining myself up to get my daughter in karts, managing the FSAE team, and giving some instruction to friends when they want it.
 

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I don't think Subaru has stepped into a new market. The BRZ is a new model, with some different focus on the car being sold,
The car is all new to Subaru, they had nothing like this before the BRZ. It is a new market, new model as well, but it is honestly a new market they weren't in before the BRZ. People who want a small RWD car didn't look to Subaru, it was a market they were not in.

I've not read anything that states or even hints that Subaru is trying to win new customers and don't want bad publicity due to what you state.
Every car manufacturer wants a bigger slice of the pie. If you don't believe Subaru is marketing this car for more customers, you are saddly mistaken. Look at luxury car manufacturers making smaller and more economical cars, they make them to fill a market, just like Subaru is looking to sell to a certain market. It's swim or get eaten by sharks, Subaru can't use "the power of all-wheel drive" forever.

I don't think they care bout IWSTI and other sites, otherwise they'd be fixing the stock tune of the WRX/STIs.
Subaru has people looking at forums, they do care. Buddy of mine had a cracked sunroof and a Subaru rep said he had seen the thread about it.

And Subaru has been doing ECU reflashes on 2012 STI's. They do care, about not spending so much money on warranty repairs. Save a penny, earn a penny.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/warranty-service-issues/240686-had-ecu-updated-dealership-2012-sti.html

If a guy comes to the dealership in a BRZ that has engine mods and a Cobb AP, they'll turn him away just as they would anyone else. They're fixing those loose panels and condensation issues because that's what they're supposed to do under warranty, seeing as all BRZs are still less than a year old.
My Subaru dealership sells Cobb APs, and down pipes and catback exhausts and wheels. They also carry Motul Racing brake fluid. I don't know if they deny warranties if you install one though, but they realize what people are using the car for.

You're missing the point I was making. The consumers who aren't brand loyal will definitely be doing internet searches on issues with the car. Internet marketing goes way beyond a Car And Driver blog and their review of a vehicle, what ever pops up in a search is what consumers will look at, even if they don't click the link and read the thread/post they'll read the header in the search. People don't want to spend money on repairs after their 30k mile warranty is up, and initial reports of large repairs only ads to the worry of the consumer, especially those who don't buy and sell a car every three years. But, if they are reading stuff that can easily be repaired after warranty, those become less of a problem.

Look at the 944 Porsche, they should be worth more than they are on the used market (every other Porsche retains value), the issue is that they require expensive servicing and is what drives the value of them way down. It takes something like 20 hours to change a clutch in one of those, and the timing chain needs to be adjusted something ridiculous like every 8k miles. People don't want to spend money to fix cars, or be hassled with cars that leave them stranded while major repair need to be done.

If I searched for 'Subaru WRX problems' and read through them, I'm betting a majority of them would hint at someone being tuned and modded...that's not a problem with the car, as the car was making power beyond the design limits of the transmission (from your example). That's a people issue, not a parts issue. Where are you seeing/reading that Subaru has a major public image issue regarding faulty parts or shoddy workmanship?
See above. Alot of people won't do anything more than read the header in an internet search. When you're hit with 20/100 threads that have "broken transmission" and another 10/100 that say "blown motor" then that person is more likely to look at another car/brand.

This is where Subaru ranked in 2009 for repairs per 100 cars. If you think Subaru is happy where they are, then why did they team with Toyota who is ranked 1st, 4th and 5th? To share the money? No way, they don't like being where they are in reports like this. They have to spend money to make repairs which drives up future car prices so the company can survive.

Press Release - 2012 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study | J.D. Power

Me? I've no engine mods. When I first bought the STI, I stated in my first post on IWSTI that I wouldn't be modifying the engine because I don't want issues with SOA if/when the engine starts giving me trouble. I'm still mod-less, going on a year. I've never owned a Subaru before now, but I didn't see any build quality issues when I was conducting research either (other than the stock tune issue). I autocross the car and trust me when I say that I'm happy with how the car performs, and I haven't even fully tapped the car's potential. If and when I decide to add power, I know that I'll be fixing my own engine from then on (I'm not rich but I can definitely afford to build another engine if need be). Plus, I'm 45 years old with a busy job and busy family life. I don't have a lot of time to be tinkering with the car, whether I'm adding mods or if I'm repairing the car. While I love my STI, it's just a car. I bought it to drive it, to work or on a track. While I realize most people on IWSTI have engine mods, I can understand SOA's standpoint on why they deny claims (although I still can't understand why the stock tune is so weak/dangerous). I'm a strong proponent of "you play, you pay". I don't need to join the pity party.
The engine tune is to deal with emission regulation requirements, nothing more. Look at the air pump they installed, it is strictly for smog and has an issue with failing and possibly leading to failed engine internals. Subaru denies it's there to meet smog regulations so they can deny emission warranties after the standard warranty is over. Remove the pump and try and get it smogged in California, the the tech will fail the vehicle on the visual inspection alone. How is that possible, Subaru claims it isn't there for emissions?

See above referance about ECU updates.
 
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