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Discussion Starter #21
It's better to properly torque a bolt/nut while using the appropriate loctite rather then over-torque it because you feel like it will come loose. I reassembled my entire car using this method.
Can do:tup: Is it blue loctite that's recommended?
 

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Yes, blue or medium strength should work fine there. I used blue on all the larger fasteners and purple (low strength) on the small ones. Just stay away from red and you should be ok.
 

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Torque to spec. Locktite is good stuff, but you shouldn't need it for very many things.
 

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I need it everywhere! It does two things... prevents hardware from coming loose (something that happened a lot on my old FJ40) and protects threads from corrosion so they can be removed if need be. Although the latter is really a non-issue anymore since I no longer live near the ocean.
 

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Torque to spec. Locktite is good stuff, but you shouldn't need it for very many things.
I need it everywhere! It does two things... prevents hardware from coming loose (something that happened a lot on my old FJ40) and protects threads from corrosion so they can be removed if need be. Although the latter is really a non-issue anymore since I no longer live near the ocean.
Don't know anything about an FJ40. Not even the mfg. I've never owned a car motorcycle, or boat - even salt water ones where Locktite was even a thought on more than a few locations, and they are normally specified by the mfg. Flywheel bolts come to mind. Seriously, if you need that much Locktite there is another problem. To start with your hardware isn't as tight as it should be and isn't working as it was designed to. There will not be enough pressure between the surfaces it is applied to to prevent movement, and guess what? That hardware will loosen. The movement will cause wear too. That much loose hardware is a symptom.

Fix the problem, not the symptom. Most of the fasteners in modern products including our cars are designed and used properly.

Use anti-seize it you want to insure easy removal of hardware that might actually seize; like caliper and turbo fasteners.
 

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are we really arguing about the best designed and manufactured pitch stop mount? make all of them the same color, shuffle them up and try to identify one of them.

(kartboy lol)
 

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Don't know anything about an FJ40. Not even the mfg. I've never owned a car motorcycle, or boat - even salt water ones where Locktite was even a thought on more than a few locations, and they are normally specified by the mfg. Flywheel bolts come to mind. Seriously, if you need that much Locktite there is another problem. To start with your hardware isn't as tight as it should be and isn't working as it was designed to. There will not be enough pressure between the surfaces it is applied to to prevent movement, and guess what? That hardware will loosen. The movement will cause wear too. That much loose hardware is a symptom.

Fix the problem, not the symptom. Most of the fasteners in modern products including our cars are designed and used properly.

Use anti-seize it you want to insure easy removal of hardware that might actually seize; like caliper and turbo fasteners.
We'll have to agree to disagree. My assembly methods come from the aircraft industry where every fastener uses either loctite, locknuts, castlenuts, or safety wire. It's vibration that loosens components even if they are properly torqued. For me loctite is assurance against that. I also torque striped (another aircraft method) all critical bolts and nuts so I can tell from a quick glance if they have shifted at all. I did use anti sieze on the caliper bolts though. You do not want to use loctite on aluminum threads.

The FJ40 is an old jeep style Land Cruiser made by Toyota. It used to vibrate itself to pieces. I almost lost a driveshaft once as the bolts loosened from vibration. Vibration also loosened the pinion nut which killed the pinion bearings requiring a rebuild of the rear end. The former was properly torqued at first. After they loosened loctite was added. The latter was never touched. It just loosened up by itself.
 

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We'll have to agree to disagree.
No.

My assembly methods come from the aircraft industry where every fastener uses either loctite, locknuts, castlenuts, or safety wire.
Perhaps, but lock washers are generally part of a design. Loctite can be too. But if unless a design is inadequate, no. Adding Loctite everywhere is not beneficial. It might not hurt but not beneficial.

It's vibration that loosens components even if they are properly torqued.
Each case should be evaluated - like lug nuts. Ya know they used to be done "right" with nuts on the left side of a vehicle reverse threads? But people, engineers realize that if you just design them and tighten them adequately they don't come off! Most people would consider lug nuts critical Do you? Do you Loctite them? On the left side of your car they are in a location where they might actually spin off on their own! No one worries about it!

The FJ40 is an old jeep style Land Cruiser made by Toyota. It used to vibrate itself to pieces. I almost lost a driveshaft once as the bolts loosened from vibration. Vibration also loosened the pinion nut which killed the pinion bearings requiring a rebuild of the rear end. The former was properly torqued at first.
By you? You have pretty much defined that you don't know how to tighten a bolt so that it will stay put without Loctite. Sorry that doesn't count.

Last comment here: If I were to go to a mechanic who told me they used Loctite on everything cause they can't depend on fasteners - I'd leave. Go to someone who knows how to use them. Seriously.

I'm wrong? Then why don't all factory assembled car cars fall apart at every fastener all the time!

Again, seriously: there probably 100 fasteners that use something ,like Loctite of thousands in a car. For the most part like 99.99999999% of the time they work! Imagine that!

OK. You have stock in Loctite? Go for it.
 

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No.



Perhaps, but lock washers are in part of the design. Loctite can be too. But if unless a design is inadequate, no. Adding Loctite everywhere is not beneficial. It might not hurt but not beneficial.
After a lock washer is used once it has to be replaced to maintain it's original effectiveness. Many lockwashers on the Subaru are captured so that means the bolt has to be replaced also. How many people actually do that? Most don't even want to go to the dealership to buy parts.



Each case should be evaluated - like lug nuts. Ya know they used to be done "right" with nuts on the right side of a vehicle reverse threads? But the people, engineers realize that if you just design them and tighten them properly they don't come of.. Most people would consider lug nuts critical Do you? Do you Loctite them?
I do not loctite lugnuts. I just didn't think I needed to state that. I do torque them though.



By you - you pretty much have defined that you don't know how to tighten a bolt so that it will stay put without Loctite. Sorry that doesn't count.
Now you're getting personal. When parts are assembled in the factory they are brand new parts in a consistent ambient temperature. When you do a repair it could be outside or the parts may not be clean or the bolt may have stretched or deformed slightly from normal usage. Loctite negates all these factors. And if you don't think I know what I'm doing then just take a look at my build thread.

Last comment here: If I were to go to a mechanic who told me they used Loctite on everything cause they can't depend on fasteners - I'd leave. Go to someone who knows how to use them Seriously.
Maybe this is my fault for not being explicit and obvious. I use my experience and judgment as to what bolts get loctite.


I'm wrong? Then why don't all factory assembled car cars fall apart at every fastener?
Again, seriously: there probably 100 fasteners that use something ,like Loctite in a car of thousands. For the most part like 99.99999999% of the time they work! Imagine that!
Again cars are assembled under ideal conditions. This whole subject came up because one poster here had correctly torqued his pitch mounts bolts but they came loose anyway. And the OP thought he needed to up the torque to be safe. Which brings me to another point. This is a modification. Therefore the OE torque parameters may not even apply. When you stiffen a car like I have done it increases the vibration throughout the car. This means that the OE torque specs may not be sufficient anymore to keep the fastener from vibrating loose. Since I'm not going to arbitrarily increase torque values I use loctite to accommodate for this issue.
OK. You have stock in Loctite? Go for it.
I don't have stock in loctite, but I'll go for it anyway thank you. I look at the stock car as a starting point to be improved upon and that's exactly what I've done. You do what you want, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm doing. I'm done with this.
 

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Sorry if I was being a D,,k

Using a bunch of Loctite isn't going to hurt anything.
Drive shaft bolts are a use where it might be warranted.

Still, common split washers are generally multiple use - especially if they are retained.
Few fasteners require Loctite.
If you are having problems with lots of bolts loosening there is probably something causing it, and its' not the increased NVH so commonly experienced by many here, incl me.
 

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If you are having problems with lots of bolts loosening there is probably something causing it, and its' not the increased NVH so commonly experienced by many here, incl me.
Wrong. It is vibration, plain and simple, harmonic vibration in the situation I've dealt with the most. We have a generator family we use that will literally vibrate itself apart within a month if the bolts aren't constantly retorqued. This is a genset produced by Caterpillar who I'd say should have their shit down. Can't speak for using Loctite on them as we weren't allowed to yet when I left.

Regardless, this is more common of a problem that you'd think. Anyone who thinks it doesn't happen is being ignorant.

Oh, and upping the torque values didn't help either. The hardware deformed and lost the ability for reuse after a single use.
 

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Late to the party, but I found when replacing OEM shifter bushings out with KB Bushings I got more noticeable NVH there, then the Perrin Pitch Stop which I replaced at the same time. With the Pitch Stop I saw a little less lurching when shifting and liked it. This was about a year ago. I have since then changed almost all my other bushings (Engine, Trans, Drive Train, Steering, etc.) and noticed a large increase in NVH. This is not for everyone but it handles incredibly better now.
 

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Wrong. It is vibration, plain and simple, harmonic vibration in the situation I've dealt with the most. We have a generator family we use that will literally vibrate itself apart within a month if the bolts aren't constantly retorqued. This is a genset produced by Caterpillar who I'd say should have their shit down. Can't speak for using Loctite on them as we weren't allowed to yet when I left.

Regardless, this is more common of a problem that you'd think. Anyone who thinks it doesn't happen is being ignorant.

Oh, and upping the torque values didn't help either. The hardware deformed and lost the ability for reuse after a single use.
Sounds as though the fasteners are inadequate, iE will not be secure in the application where they were used. That is a case where use of lock title might be justified. I have few problems keeping the threaded fasteners on my vehicles tight though. Nether do any of the mechanics I know. They can't spend even the time to apply it. They use it where instructed. Bet there's only a handful of cases in your service manual.
 

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I've run group-N on 2 STIs and it is a quiet but effective upgrade. If you're upgrading engine/trans mounts to group-N (which I'd recommend) this upgrade will match w/other mounts. My experience with other owners is that Beatrush increases NVH substantially.
 
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