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Re: Project Silverstreak: driveshaft is back in!

[URL=http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/SubySal/STI%20journal/Time%20Attack%20Schedule.jpg]Image Link
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The Time Attacks are kinda like a big autocross, but also very different. You don't work the events. There is no membership required. You just show up, pay the entry fee and proceed to grid. Though this last event had a short course the courses are usually longer and faster. You get 5 runs per event... and fun runs most of the time (depending on weather and such). They run the whole grid at once so there is more time between runs. Some SCCA guys don't like this, but I do. 71R's run better cold and it's nice not having to rush between runs. The track surface has at least twice the grip of the back lot and is very smooth. PPIR is constantly working to improve the events and even the course itself. They've recently added a bunch of turn sections to the infield to expand course designs. In fact they are working on new improvements on the infield right now.

Most of the news and activity about events is focused on the facebook page here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/712509272248760/?ref=bookmarks

The rules, roster, overview, etc. are here:
http://ppir.com/page/25
Sounds awesome. I love our local SCCA events, but if I were to change things... it would be faster, longer courses less focused on slaloms :lol: and a bit more of a relaxed sort of attitude. This sounds right up my alley. Also would be cool for the girlfriend to get out on some longer/faster events. She's killing it in autox but pretty nervous about jumping up to a HPDE event.

I'm about 4-5 hrs from the Springs... looks like I'll probably be making the trip for the July event at least, hopefully some of the fall ones too.
 

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Discussion Starter #102
Re: Project Silverstreak: Loving it!

Ya know I'm giving the SCCA a break. I'm not even renewing my membership this year. I'm tired of the way the SCCA does things. Just too much regulation not enough driving for me. The icing on the cake is two years after I spent a heap of money and time building my STI for STU they dropped Corvettes and 350Z's into the class. I (and others I'm sure) wrote many letters to the SEB that fell on deaf ears about how true sports cars don't belong in STU.... give them their own class! We can't compete with that kind of car with our rule set.

They came back with lame excuses like the Vette's don't have optimal gearing and such. When those cars took the first four spots at Nats in their first year competing the SEB then made an allowance for AWD's to go up to 265's. I can't fit those. Everyone I know with GD's that went to 265's either changes tires at the track because they rub so badly or has the struts/coilovers modified to get enough backspacing to fit them properly. I'm not doing that. I like my car's balance with 245's and I don't want to start popping half-shafts.

Since the SCCA is all about competition and they effectively outmoded my car there is no incentive for me to bother with them. In fact I feel a bit alienated. The SCCA says they're a club, but they are really a business looking for a buck. Sport compact cars are yesterday's news. They are not many of us left so we get pushed to the back. CAM is the new fav. Hmm... I guess I didn't need to say all that. Take it for what it's worth. I'm just really glad the Time Attacks came along.

Time Attacks focus on the drive and having fun. The courses are not as technical, but they are challenging and flow well. They are fast and the surface is grippy. The way I see it, Autocross is for competitors and Time Attacks are for drivers.

If you like to drive I'm fairly sure you'll like the Time Attacks!
 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Loving it!

Ya know I'm giving the SCCA a break. I'm not even renewing my membership this year. I'm tired of the way the SCCA does things. Just too much regulation not enough driving for me. The icing on the cake is two years after I spent a heap of money and time building my STI for STU they dropped Corvettes and 350Z's into the class. I (and others I'm sure) wrote many letters to the SEB that fell on deaf ears about how true sports cars don't belong in STU.... give them their own class! We can't compete with that kind of car with our rule set.

They came back with lame excuses like the Vette's don't have optimal gearing and such. When those cars took the first four spots at Nats in their first year competing the SEB then made an allowance for AWD's to go up to 265's. I can't fit those. Everyone I know with GD's that went to 265's either changes tires at the track because they rub so badly or has the struts/coilovers modified to get enough backspacing to fit them properly. I'm not doing that. I like my car's balance with 245's and I don't want to start popping half-shafts.

Since the SCCA is all about competition and they effectively outmoded my car there is no incentive for me to bother with them. In fact I feel a bit alienated. The SCCA says they're a club, but they are really a business looking for a buck. Sport compact cars are yesterday's news. They are not many of us left so we get pushed to the back. CAM is the new fav. Hmm... I guess I didn't need to say all that. Take it for what it's worth. I'm just really glad the Time Attacks came along.

Time Attacks focus on the drive and having fun. The courses are not as technical, but they are challenging and flow well. They are fast and the surface is grippy. The way I see it, Autocross is for competitors and Time Attacks are for drivers.

If you like to drive I'm fairly sure you'll like the Time Attacks!
Who hosts the Time Attack events? Are you saying for SCCA or a separate club all together?

Also, bummer about the change to STU. I was thinking about getting more involved in SCCA, but between you and Jack Baruth's complaints it's making me a little reluctant. I'm sure if I was tracking a C6 vette or something it'd be great, but I'm not and don't ever plan on it.
 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Loving it!

The way I see it, Autocross is for competitors and Time Attacks are for drivers.

If you like to drive I'm fairly sure you'll like the Time Attacks!

I completely hear you on that. I often feel that a large percentage of the folks at our SCCA races are there almost exclusively to talk about classes and rules and less so to actually just go race cars.

And then when/if they get beaten, more often than not the discussion is about how that person classed themselves wrong, or how that's a cheater car, or whatever. Not just about holy crap that dude just pulled a crazy time.

Anyways... I'm pretty stoked to have found out about these. Seems there's lots more racing/events in CO than appears at first (google) glance. :tup: Definitely planning on the July one and hopefully some fall ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Re: Project Silverstreak: Loving it!

Who hosts the Time Attack events? Are you saying for SCCA or a separate club all together?

Also, bummer about the change to STU. I was thinking about getting more involved in SCCA, but between you and Jack Baruth's complaints it's making me a little reluctant. I'm sure if I was tracking a C6 vette or something it'd be great, but I'm not and don't ever plan on it.
The Time Attacks are done in-house by the racetrack. The SCCA has nothing to do with it. Vette's never get outclassed. I think it's because the higher ups at the SCCA race them, but who knows. The SCCA events can be fun though. They are worth checking out. Then you can make your own determination..

I completely hear you on that. I often feel that a large percentage of the folks at our SCCA races are there almost exclusively to talk about classes and rules and less so to actually just go race cars.

And then when/if they get beaten, more often than not the discussion is about how that person classed themselves wrong, or how that's a cheater car, or whatever. Not just about holy crap that dude just pulled a crazy time.
Yea, I've seen that occasionally. I try to stay out of the drama. I think for the most part the people that run/participate are a great bunch. My problem is the regulations get in the way of driving. COR does a better job at getting in more runs than CDR... but 3 or 4 runs for $40-45 plus yearly membership and you have to work and such.... blah. It comes down to math for me. Time Attacks are a better value.


Anyways... I'm pretty stoked to have found out about these. Seems there's lots more racing/events in CO than appears at first (google) glance. :tup: Definitely planning on the July one and hopefully some fall ones.
Take a look at the Growlfest at PPIR put on by Hueberger Motors. That is the most fun I'vs ever had at a driving event. The entry was $30 something and we ran all day. I got like 15 runs!
 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Loving it!

I completely hear you on that. I often feel that a large percentage of the folks at our SCCA races are there almost exclusively to talk about classes and rules and less so to actually just go race cars.

And then when/if they get beaten, more often than not the discussion is about how that person classed themselves wrong, or how that's a cheater car, or whatever. Not just about holy crap that dude just pulled a crazy time.

Anyways... I'm pretty stoked to have found out about these. Seems there's lots more racing/events in CO than appears at first (google) glance. :tup: Definitely planning on the July one and hopefully some fall ones.
And that's a major reason I like the race track. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #107 (Edited)
Re: Project Silverstreak: Loving it!

So here's some pics and a vid of PPIR Time Attack #3. The series is really evolving. They have changed the format from the high speed autocross they had before. The new track sections allow them to set up great courses with a minimum of cones. It now has a very different feel then autocross. I like it a lot, but I do kinda miss slaloms. They also got a new timing system in place which allowed them to make 700 runs in 4.5 hours! It was the smoothest running event I've ever done!!








 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

That looks super fun. Kinda more like a mini track day vs a big autocross like the previous one. How fast do you think you were getting up to? I'm guessing the MPH data on the bottom wasn't quite accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter #109
Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

It is super fun! ...definitely more road course then autocross. You're right about the speed. The sampling is not fast enough to keep up and the obd II dongle won't work with the Accessport reflash. I'd say my peak speed was high 60's maybe 70. There was one fast course last year where I got into 4th! It was confusing at first and I ended up in the wrong gear a couple times.

Going up on to the outer ring is a really fun aspect too because of the steep banking. It adds another dimension. You have a lot of grip there ...more than you'd think.
 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

It is super fun! ...definitely more road course then autocross. You're right about the speed. The sampling is not fast enough to keep up and the obd II dongle won't work with the Accessport reflash. I'd say my peak speed was high 60's maybe 70. There was one fast course last year where I got into 4th! It was confusing at first and I ended up in the wrong gear a couple times.

Going up on to the outer ring is a really fun aspect too because of the steep banking. It adds another dimension. You have a lot of grip there ...more than you'd think.
I bet. It seemed like you were able to carry a lot of speed though there.

I'm really excited to come check one of these out. Hoping that my work schedule will allow me to come up for the next one here in July.

One thing I do really like about autox vs track days is how hard I can push. Autox I feel very comfortable pushing the car to the limit... I'm not worried about spinning it. Track days are super fun, but not the same story -- much more to risk if I lose it in in a 90mph corner or near a wall.
 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: playing with poly...

[URL=http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/SubySal/STI%20journal/driveshaft%20w%20poly.jpg]Image Link
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So I cured the urethane as per the instructions (7 days @ 77ºF) and reinstalled the shaft. Frankly I was surprised at the difference it made after driving the car. The car feels so much more solid and consistent. Especially at lower speeds. I guess it makes sense when you've replaced every bushing in the entire car in an attempt to tighten everything up... that 1/4" or so of play in that carrier bearing bushing can really be felt. There is a bit more gear noise, but that's all as far as the detractions go. I don't foresee any long term adverse effects, but only time will tell. For now I can't wait to try it out at the next time attack on the 7th!

I'm kinda surprised no one has thought of doing this before.
I do center bearing supports (or as you call it, carrier) for a living and I am going to voice my skepticism at this statement. Just because there's more NVH doesn't mean you gained anything. The shaft still transmits the torque the same. You should not be able to feel a performance change. The rubber element is merely to take up the "bouncing" of the shaft, isolate minor vibrations, and ensure a reliable angle into the diff. If the shaft is putting a radial load on the bearing (side load with torque), you have other problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #112 (Edited)
Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

You're entitled to your opinion though it does not reflect my observations. As far as me having other problems... just no. I went over every inch of that car when I built it. I've replaced every bushing in the car (save for the bushings that connect the carrier bearing to the body), torqued every bolt then marked them with torque stripe. I check it after every race. If something else was loose I'd know immediately.

As far as the torque transmitting the same do me a favor... try tightening a bolt using a ratchet and a universal joint with a 3" extension, then do it again adding another universal joint and 3" extension. I guarantee that second joint will have to be held in place to get linear force to the bolt from the ratchet.

The Subaru driveshaft is a two piece design with a center u-joint. The carrier bearing bushing allows deflection at that point between the two shafts. The bushing that holds the carrier bearing in place has an open void approximately 1/4" all around (no doubt to reduce noise). That means under loads when the bearing shifts in it's bushing from one side to the other it can move ~1/2". That's a lot of play! Especially when every other bushing in the car has been stiffened/strengthened. It's enough play that the driveshaft makes contact with the body of the car albeit lightly when I launch it off the line. A friend I race with has an 05 and he's having the same problem. The driveshaft contacts the body during hard launches. He also did a fun run in my car at the last event and was also surprised at how much less the car bucks... which to say was not at all.

I haven't really noticed an increase in NVH actually. It may be a bit louder under certain conditions, but seems about the same as before on the highway. I think that's because I purposely left the OE bushings in that location. I'm sure the aluminum replacements would add some noticeable drivetrain noise.

Whether someone else wants to do this mod is up to them. What I know for sure is my car feels much smoother and consistent on course and just driving around then it did before.
 

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Discussion Starter #113
Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

I bet. It seemed like you were able to carry a lot of speed though there.

I'm really excited to come check one of these out. Hoping that my work schedule will allow me to come up for the next one here in July.

One thing I do really like about autox vs track days is how hard I can push. Autox I feel very comfortable pushing the car to the limit... I'm not worried about spinning it. Track days are super fun, but not the same story -- much more to risk if I lose it in in a 90mph corner or near a wall.
Definitely come out!

I'm the same way when it comes to autocross vs. track days. I like all that back and forth abrupt change of direction. I liken it to a mini tarmac rally.

Funny you mention the wall... they actually moved it a bit closer to the course. That made a few of us nervous, but the way the course was laid out it was not an issue. I'm not sure why they moved the wall though.

I guess I should mention I have seen three crashes so far this season. The one I saw happen could have been avoided, another I was told went a long way off course to find a wall. The third I'm not sure on. It happened on the practice course on the outer ring. It's kind of tight at the turn around plus it was an MR2 Spyder. It may have snapped around. That said you can cut loose on course, but to have to use some caution.

In some ways TA is safer than autocross because the course doesn't snake around back onto itself. That always worries me if there is a new driver on course with me. I saw an accident last year at an SCCA event at PPIR where an MR2 got lost and circled back towards the beginning where he ran into a Civic. The driver in the MR2 was clueless. The driver in the Civic turned away to the right, but the MR2 driver turned into him by going left. This is not an issue with Time Attacks. You generally don't have to worry about other drivers just yourself.
 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

Definitely come out!

I'm the same way when it comes to autocross vs. track days. I like all that back and forth abrupt change of direction. I liken it to a mini tarmac rally.

Funny you mention the wall... they actually moved it a bit closer to the course. That made a few of us nervous, but the way the course was laid out it was not an issue. I'm not sure why they moved the wall though.

I guess I should mention I have seen three crashes so far this season. The one I saw happen could have been avoided, another I was told went a long way off course to find a wall. The third I'm not sure on. It happened on the practice course on the outer ring. It's kind of tight at the turn around plus it was an MR2 Spyder. It may have snapped around. That said you can cut loose on course, but to have to use some caution.

In some ways TA is safer than autocross because the course doesn't snake around back onto itself. That always worries me if there is a new driver on course with me. I saw an accident last year at an SCCA event at PPIR where an MR2 got lost and circled back towards the beginning where he ran into a Civic. The driver in the MR2 was clueless. The driver in the Civic turned away to the right, but the MR2 driver turned into him by going left. This is not an issue with Time Attacks. You generally don't have to worry about other drivers just yourself.
Yeah that's scary. I haven't seen anything too much like that in AutoX but I've definitely seen times where someone's spun and stalled and corner workers weren't paying attention and didn't red flag nearly quickly enough... leading to some tense moments as someone is stopped in the middle of the course and someone else is bearing down at full speed.

I did see the wall looked fairly close in one part of the course in your video... it did look like a section where it would be unlikely to go off at least.

I mean, there's definitely some risk in any sort of motorsport. I've seen one car crash at autocross, though it was mostly his fault (BRZ spun, driver was pissed he lost his lap so he just kinda let it spin, after it stopped the spin it rolled backwards into a lightpost. If he'd just been hard on the brakes and not let it spin he would've been fine).

It's all fun though. Cool to have both the higher speeds and different skills of track days and also the tighter autox courses. Going to plan on coming out to the Time Attack on July 2!
 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Loving it!

So here's some pics and a vid of PPIR Time Attack #3. The series is really evolving. They have changed the format from the high speed autocross they had before. The new track sections allow them to set up great courses with a minimum of cones. It now has a very different feel then autocross. I like it a lot, but I do kinda miss slaloms. They also got a new timing system in place which allowed them to make 700 runs in 4.5 hours! It was the smoothest running event I've ever done!!



movie

[URL=http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/SubySal/STI%20journal/TA%203%201.jpg]Image Link
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[URL=http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/SubySal/STI%20journal/TA%203%202.jpg]Image Link
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Looks awesome!!
 

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Discussion Starter #116
Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

Well I realize it's been a long time since I updated my thread. I finally got all the pics back up. I think that's why I haven't done much here in a while. I was not looking forward to that daunting task.

So I made it through another season of Time Attack. It's getting way more popular and the competition is getting fierce!

I decided to try some new tires last season. Nexen SUR4G's. I really like them. They seem to have the same peak grip of the RE71R, but they're more forgiving and more controllable beyond their limits. They are wider than the RE71R's I was using before. I had to go with a different wheel that had a bit more offset. I chose the SSR GTV02 (17 x 9 et45).

The new combo was great at the first event. The car was sticky and felt awesome. However the event after that was the Growlfest. I was asked to do a demo run at the event. It was early and the track was cold. The car got loose going into the esses and the rear slipped off the track. All I could do was ride it out. It had rained the day before so there was some mud on the infield and the ground was soft. As I drifted with the front wheels on the track and the rear on the dirt and mud the car sank a bit. The right rear wheel kicked up rocks which dinged the paint on my brand new SSR wheels. I wasn't happy about that. I ended up using some touch up paint after I cleaned the wheel. I guess they were broken in after that... because racecar.

This season I going to get some new Nexen's even though my current set have plenty of tread left. Unfortunately I also overheated them at the Growlfest doing back to back competition runs. Live and learn, but I didn't really have a choice there. I tried to cool them, but just didn't have the time between runs. After that peak grip really suffered for the rest of the season. I feel like the rubber was tempered from heat cycling that was too aggressive. This new crop of 200TW tires are very fast, but also very unforgiving. I've decided I will keep the old tires and mount them up just for Growlfest, flog 'em ...then take them off.

Here's some pics from last season. It was October so the track was a bit cold and many of us got a bit loose on the carousel.






I also noticed my turbo elbow wasn't sealing completely. It's original and wasn't treated very well by the previous owners. It's kind of a blessing in disguise. I noticed oil seeping down transmission bell housing and couldn't figure out where it was coming from. I didn't think I was blowing by that much oil being that I still run the stock boost tables and it wasn't dropping much on the dipstick. However the latter might be because the car holds more oil now so the difference can't be seen as easily on the dipstick. And with the super sticky tires we run now I guess boost tables don't matter. That lateral force will push oil out regardless. To help this issue I'm going to install and air oil separator.

Originally I wanted the Killer B unit, but like most if not all auto drain style separators they have to be mounted fairly high to drain properly. This makes the possibility of keeping the strut tower brace (which I'm not willing to give up) questionable at best. I decided to go with the Moroso set up because it maintains the original flow and circuit separation of the PCV system. The separators came with brass fittings, but I decided to upgrade to AN fitting to make servicing it easier. I haven't installed it yet because I'm waiting on some related parts to get cad plated.



 

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Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

I'm curious to hear how you like the AOS. I've also been considering one (though I don't seem to lose any oil even after Time Attacks or track days) and I also don't like the idea of getting rid of my strut tower brace.

Do you have to empty the Moroso unit like a catch can? Or does it recycle the oil back into the pan?
 

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Discussion Starter #118 (Edited)
Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

Hey Dan,

I didn't seem to be losing much oil either. It was only after the turbo elbow didn't seal completely did I notice how much oil was blowing by. Of course this could be a case where it looks like more than it is. Either way with the separators installed I expect [hope] there will be a large reduction in oil entering the intake. From what I've gleaned about these separators they seem effective. It won't be a 100% reduction, but I'm ok with that.

These units do not self drain. For that to happen they would need top be mounted higher so the port at the bottom of the container is above the PCV port on the block. I'm OK with that. I'd rather just remove the sludge instead of draining it back into the engine.

That said these units don't drain like a normal catch can. The small ball valve (I forgot to put in the photos above) at the bottom of each separator can be opened to drain it more easily. You can drain them into a small cup or attach a hose and let them drain into a pan. I'm going to use -4AN fittings to make my life easier. Also it's an added measure of safety. If the valve leaks at all the oil will be contained by a -4AN screw on cap.

 

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Discussion Starter #119 (Edited)
Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

Making some progress. I learned some very important lessons too. AN fittings are pretty easy to work with because they seal at the flare. NPT adapters on the other hand require some care.

When working with adapters some things became apparent. First, teflon tape does not work... it just jams up in the threads. Liquid thread sealant is required.

Second, when installing an aluminum fitting into an aluminum housing don't do it dry. Not even to test fit. The fitting and the housing will gall themselves together before you know it. I think it's possible to do it with just finger tight. It happened to me. I could not get the fitting out. It almost immediately stripped in place. I finally cut it out, but the threads on the separator were damaged. Luckily I had an 3/8" NPT tap and was able to reconstruct the threads. Fortunately everything turned out OK, but I think if I had to do it over I may have splurged for the stainless adapter fittings.

Progress so far...
 

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Discussion Starter #120 (Edited)
Re: Project Silverstreak: Time Attack #3 pics and vid!

Finally got the new air oil separator installed!








Here's some pics of the canister for the PCV system. Routing the hoses around everything was difficult, but one benefit of this system is it's adjustable. You can change the angles of the fittings as well as the separator itself so the hoses will clear even if only by a few mm's. I also chose this system because there was no question that I could retain my strut tower brace.







By the way this is not how the kit comes. I added the AN fittings, changed to Parker socketless hose, modified the PCV cross over tube as well as a few other things. Basically I used the canisters and mounting brackets from the original kit. I'm sure it would work fine as it was, but I saw room for improvement.
 
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