IW STi Forum banner

61 - 80 of 149 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #61
Re: Project Silverstreak: 1st track day!

No brake ducting. SCCA Street Touring rules have some restrictions about that for some unknown reason. I can tell you before the car ever sees track again it will have ducting and circuit pads first.

How do I brake? Hard... and as fast as I can. I wait until the last possible second then try and shed as much speed in the shortest distance possible. I always want to be on the brake or throttle. In autocross coasting at all is a no-no. However driving like that on track overheats the brakes very quickly without the proper mods. If I'm going to spend the time and money to drive track I just don't see the point of holding back. If that's the case it's not worth it to me. If I do another track day I'll be prepared. This one was a freebie that came up quick so I just did it. I know better though and I knew that this would be the result. I built the car. I know its limitations and I know the brakes were not up to track duty the way I drive it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,396 Posts
Re: Project Silverstreak: 1st track day!

I always ran brake cooling ducts in STR class since I have them for road course and too lazy to cover them up (and they're not doing anything but adding weight anyway). Nobody at the local level has ever cared. I've lost brakes on track with a passenger (Chris Mayfield) in the car back at Second Creek Raceway when it existed. All was fine; I just made a drift car for one turn. Since then, I've over-braked my cars so that I have more than I need.

What pads were you on and what pads are you looking to get for road course? What were your lap times?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
899 Posts
Re: Project Silverstreak: 1st track day!

Do you brake so hard you hit the ABS?

But basically what you say that's the right way to brake.
What surprised me the most, that I was able to have a solid brake only by adding those Prova Brake Ducts . Well not exact the carbon ones but replicas out of sheet metal but they work really well.

And the Hockenheimring Grand Prix Course is VERY brake demanding.
Just for the Record: Tarox F2000 Rotors and Pagid RS14 Pads, SS Brakelines and Motul RBF 600 Fluid.

Obviously I'm not familiar with the rules you have for the class you run in. But there really is no point in running a car in a class that doesn't allow brake cooling. Especially one where you know the brakes are not up to par for track duty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #64
Re: Project Silverstreak: 1st track day!

I only hit ABS if a tire looses contact with the ground under heavy breaking. So the surface of the tarmac has a lot to do with it. I remember those Prova brake ducts. I could see them being beneficial.

I didn't build my car for track. I built it specifically for STU class autocross. The brakes don't come anywhere near overheating at an autocross due to the lower speeds and the way the events are run.

Yamaha,
Sounds like you had quite the adventure. Loosing brakes on the track is um... disconcerting. I dont like it. Did Chris even flinch? He's usually super calm.
Your right. Brake ducting is not an issue at local events. It's not a performance advantage anyway. Just one more archaic rule deemed by the SEB that doesn't make sense. Meh.

Anywho I'm running on Project Mu B-force pads. I love em for autocross. They are rated for "light" track duty, but with a heavy STI and my driving habits I all but knew they would overheat. I like the Project Mu pads so if I decide to do track more regularly I want to try their circuit pads along with full ducting. I actually picked up some foglight bezels yesterday. There were only 13 sets left in CGM so I figured buy it, store it. If I do ducting I will go the roo duct route. Thing is I'm not doing anything (unless I get restless) until some of my friends get certified for track. I will get bored running track by myself and I'm still plenty entertained by autocross and PPIR's Time Attacks. That being the case and with the added expense of track time I can take it or leave it. So we'll see.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,396 Posts
Re: Project Silverstreak: 1st track day!

Yamaha,
Sounds like you had quite the adventure. Loosing brakes on the track is um... disconcerting. I dont like it. Did Chris even flinch? He's usually super calm.
Your right. Brake ducting is not an issue at local events. It's not a performance advantage anyway. Just one more archaic rule deemed by the SEB that doesn't make sense. Meh.
Chris didn't say anything as we were coming up to the turn at a high rate of speed, but when I threw the car sideways, he just started laughing. He later said he kept wondering when I was going to brake, but I was hard on the brakes. :) This was back in 2004 or 2005. I'm not even sure he had done a track day prior. He did co-drive my while SHO that day and spun it with a large cloud of dirt in the air. I almost spun it in the same spot on the next session... Was a great day.

Anywho I'm running on Project Mu B-force pads. I love em for autocross. They are rated for "light" track duty, but with a heavy STI and my driving habits I all but knew they would overheat. I like the Project Mu pads so if I decide to do track more regularly I want to try their circuit pads along with full ducting. I actually picked up some foglight bezels yesterday. There were only 13 sets left in CGM so I figured buy it, store it. If I do ducting I will go the roo duct route. Thing is I'm not doing anything (unless I get restless) until some of my friends get certified for track. I will get bored running track by myself and I'm still plenty entertained by autocross and PPIR's Time Attacks. That being the case and with the added expense of track time I can take it or leave it. So we'll see.

I've never run their pads, so I'm not sure on their capability. If you do find that those aren't doing the trick with cooling, my recommendation would be Hawk DTC-70's.

I need to get my car back, get it fixed, and get back out on track. Currently, I feel like this:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
Re: Project Silverstreak: 1st track day!

Wow that was a long time ago. That's about the same time I started autocrossing.

Will do on the pad recommendation. Thanks.

I think I heard about your car if it's a blue S2000. Good luck getting it all fixed up. Hopefully you'll be back out there soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #68
Re: Project Silverstreak: 1st track day!

OK yea.

Nice... well that's if Robert can tear himself away from his own S2000. He can't seem to leave that car alone. I guess things are getting serious now that it's caged.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
New gauges!!!

So what prompted this install? I wasn't really happy with the current gauges. I'm not into the space shuttle look in my STI so I wanted to keep the gauge placement subtle. It seemed dual digital gauges would be a great way to go.

It didn't work out. Digital gauges are great in a tow vehicle or RV, but are useless in a race car. They just take too long to read. I thought as much though which is why I made sure these gauges had peak recall. I got into the habit of checking my numbers after every run.

Problem number 2... the EGT and oil temp seemed fairly accurate, but boost and oil pressure were way off. I run stock boost maps and peak boost recorded was usually over 20 psi. The vacuum readings were off too at idle by a couple pounds. Even my tuner was surprised by this considering how much these British made gauges cost. Oil pressure was the same story... peak pressures were usually between 120-126psi. Running on the highway the pressures seemed more in the ball park, but probably still a bit high. So much for laboratory grade sensors.

I still wanted to keep the gauge count to two spaces. I thought long and hard. I wanted to go analog because they're easier to read and I like the aesthetic better. There are a few dual analog gauges, OLED gauges and combo analog digital gauges. I didn't really care for them. Either the face was too cluttered or the look just didn't appeal to me. So I decided to just run two gauges... Oil temp and EGT.

This is odd I know because the popular choices are oil pressure, turbo boost, and Wideband AF. Well here's my thinking... boost is entertaining and if accurate (most electric gauges are not) can tell you if you're not reaching full boost. I personally don't see the point of a dedicated boost gauge. I'm running stock boost maps and I inspect my car after most every event for any leaks or something out of the ordinary. I figure from time to time I could just hook up the Accessport, go for a run, and check boost ...or just do a log.

Oil pressure. I can't control oil pressure. It's like controlling your heart beat. It just does it's own thing. If it fails and I caught it on a gauge maybe I could do something, but the chance of that is minute to say the least. Even so I'd probably still have to tear the engine down. I have a stock engine with Killer B pick-up, pan, baffle and I'm running Redline 5W30. I've made the oiling system as safe as I reasonably can. That said I did install a new oil pressure switch. I thought about it and what I really want to know about the oil pump is that it's working. As long as it's working I don't need to know the pressure. The OE switch comes on at a useless 2.1psi. The new switch (an Autometer 3241) comes on at 15psi and goes off at 18 psi. That's the bottom of the normal range for the oil pump so that was my choice. The cool thing is you can get lots of different switches set to come on at different pressures as well as adjustable switches you can set to whatever you want. That seems more useful to me than trying to monitor a gauge on the off chance I lose oil pressure.

The only thing I'll say about Widebands is I trust my tuner. He gave me a good safe map so I don't need to monitor AF ratio's. Again I'm very near stock. It might be a different story if I started messing with the fuel system (I'm not).

So that left oil temp and EGT...
Oil temp is the most important gauge to me. With a stock engine and a Killer b lower end my temps haven't gotten too high even on a track day. I'm not really concerned at this point about high temps. For me the importance is minimum oil temps. This comes into play when I autocross or time attack. When the car sits between runs I want to make sure that oil is at least 160� before making a run. Knowing the oil temp also helps me manage heat soak on hot days while waiting to run the car instead of just idling for no good reason.

EGT tells me how hard I'm pushing the car. This is something I can control. If I check it after a run and it's off this will tell me whether I want to run again or not depending on the reading. If it's high it can also be an indicator the fuel is leaning out. If it's low maybe I'm not getting full boost and I can then check that with the AP. In short I like EGT because it tells me my demand on the engine in real time.

Well there's my reasoning. If you've made it this far I applaud you. Enjoy the pics. :)


I put up these first two pics because the gauges look red in one and amber in the other. In real life they very closely match my stock gauge cluster.





Just some pics of the process. I had to alter the Suble Solutions pod a bit to fit the switches. The guages come with pods, but have no means to mount into a bezel. Answer... hot glue.









I was able to derive a constant hot from an unused relay socket next to the fuse box. The other wires needed (acc hot/ illumination/ ground) were derived from the small wire harness originally connected to the cigarette lighter socket. The gauge bezel replaced the ash tray and lighter so it all worked out perfectly. In the end I didn't have to cut into any of the wires on the car's harness which essentially made the install plug and play.



I had to do something with the extra sender wire so I did this. In the old days it was cut to length. I kinda miss that.



With the amount of heat this area sees proper heat management is important. Even after three years the rubber connectors from the old gauges were still soft and came right apart.



The new sender. An Autometer 3241. It is nearly a direct fit. I had already changed out the original oil sender adapter on the pump to 1/8NPT so I could mount the sender from the old gauge. Again... essentially plug and play. The new switch works just like OE, but with a higher PSI value.



The new EGT probe is far more robust than the one it replaces. It shouldn't break which is nice. That's the second probe from the old gauges. I think the armor over the wires on the original probe was too heavy. This put too much strain on the probe and snapped it. SPA has since redesigned it and that seems to have fixed the issue. The thicker probe may slow response a bit, but I can live with that.



When it came to choosing new gauges I looked at everything out there I could find. There's not much info on these Perrin gauges. I chose them because they had the features I wanted. Namely peak recall and a programmable alarm. They can do this without an external box like the Defi's which I like. Had the Defi's had the same functions without a cumbersome box I may have gotten them instead. Anyway these Perrin gauges are made in Taiwan, but seem to be good quality. Besides if the Britain made gauges were questionable I'd say all bets are off. I talked to someone that's had them for a while and he still loves them. I also talked to the folks at Perrin who patiently answered all my questions before buying the gauges.

This brings me to my last point. I'm happy I bought these gauges. They look great and have some awesome features. They are very simple to use too which is nice. That said I had a couple minor issues. First... this is something most people would not notice. The alignment cap was missing out of one of the sender connectors. Not a big deal Perrin sent me a new one. The second... if you look in the pic the warning light in the switch for the oil pressure gauge did not come on. The folks at Perrin apologized and I had a new switch in a couple days. Using isopropyl alcohol I was able to loosen the hot glue pretty easily and mount the new switch then put it all back together. This kind of support is important to me. In my experience Perrin has always stood behind their products and when buying something like these gauges that's something I take into account. I give Perrin customer service 5-stars!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #70 (Edited)
polished the intercooler!

I had to take the intercooler off to do winter maintenance and also to wire the new gauges. I had thought about polishing it for a while so this time I decided to go for it. I was surprised I got it done in one day... well one long day. While I was at it I had some new bushings made out of stainless to match the ARP hardware that now secures the intercooler. There's some other hardware I polished at well. I'm pretty happy with how it came out.













 

·
Registered
Joined
·
723 Posts
Re: New gauges!!!

The new sender. An Autometer 3241. It is nearly a direct fit. I had already changed out the original oil sender adapter on the pump to 1/8NPT so I could mount the sender from the old gauge. Again... essentially plug and play. The new switch works just like OE, but with a higher PSI value.

The new EGT probe is far more robust than the one it replaces. It shouldn't break which is nice. That's the second probe from the old gauges. I think the armor over the wires on the original probe was too heavy. This put too much strain on the probe and snapped it. SPA has since redesigned it and that seems to have fixed the issue. The thicker probe may slow response a bit, but I can live with that.

When it came to choosing new gauges I looked at everything out there I could find. There's not much info on these Perrin gauges. I chose them because they had the features I wanted. Namely peak recall and a programmable alarm. They can do this without an external box like the Defi's which I like. Had the Defi's had the same functions without a cumbersome box I may have gotten them instead. Anyway these Perrin gauges are made in Taiwan, but seem to be good quality. Besides if the Britain made gauges were crap I'd say all bets are off. I talked to someone that's had them for a while and he still loves them. I also talked to the folks at Perrin who patiently answered all my questions before buying the gauges.
Is that cylinder #4 that you tapped for the EGT? Also, I'm not sure if I missed this earlier in the thread, but are you running ELH?

Am I understanding correctly that you essentially changed the OEM oil pressure light to be triggered at 15psi instead of 2psi by changing that sender out? Thanks in advance for the help!

Love this build! It's kind of how I imagine my car looking in the very near future. Good oil upgrades, solid braking, and more monitoring ability of engine vitals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #72
Re: New gauges!!!

Is that cylinder #4 that you tapped for the EGT? Also, I'm not sure if I missed this earlier in the thread, but are you running ELH?
Yes, I have a Killer B ELH with a 1/4" npt bung welded into the #4 runner. Killer B provides this service which made installing an EGT gauge super easy.

Am I understanding correctly that you essentially changed the OEM oil pressure light to be triggered at 15psi instead of 2psi by changing that sender out? Thanks in advance for the help!
Yes. That is correct.

Love this build! It's kind of how I imagine my car looking in the very near future. Good oil upgrades, solid braking, and more monitoring ability of engine vitals.
Thank you! I'll have to check out your build as it progresses. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
723 Posts
Re: New gauges!!!

Yes, I have a Killer B ELH with a 1/4" npt bung welded into the #4 runner. Killer B provides this service which made installing an EGT gauge super easy.

Yes. That is correct.

Thank you! I'll have to check out your build as it progresses. :)
Interesting about Killer B's bung weld. Kind of puts that debate to rest in my mind about which runner to tap into for the best EGT accuracy.

Thanks for the info! Maybe one day soon I'll get a page going. I don't want to be one of those guys that starts a build and only does gauges, fog lights, and speakers or something :lol:

I have a feeling that this track season is really going to get the ball rolling!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #74
Re: Project Silverstreak: Perrin Gauge install!

I've heard #4 is the best place for the egt probe... at least on an STI. You're welcome! I'm happy to answer any questions I can. I hear ya on the journal. I started mine just after I got the car back together. It was just easier for me that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #75 (Edited)
Rear brakes glazed as well...

Well I was in the process of bedding in the new front pads and about half way through the rear brakes started to howl very loudly. When I initially inspected them the rotors nor the pads looked glazed like the front brakes, but it seems the heat did it's job on these pads as well...

They're not mirror polished like the front rotors, but glazed just the same.


Looks like I boiled the glue right out of these as well. At least I'm consistent. The new pads should be here tomorrow.


As an added bonus the axlenuts decided to back off a bit too. I should've torqued them, but I didn't. I did the "tighten with the impact gun method" everyone else I know uses. Lesson learned. Still not too disappointing after three seasons of autocross. I'll torque the new ones then peen the hell out of them.


This turned out to be an expensive free track day. I think I'll stick to Autocross/Time Attacks from now on. Track was OK, but as odd as it sounds I like the pitching and drifting of autocross and time attacks better. :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,688 Posts
Re: Project Silverstreak: Perrin Gauge install!

Ok, tracks are not for everyone, nor is autocross for that matter. But understand your point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
Re: Project Silverstreak: Perrin Gauge install!

Yea it takes all kinds... I find point to point racing exciting. Maybe because it reminds me of stage rally ...I bite into a York Peppermint Patty and I get the sensation I'm tearing through a tarmac stage in Corsica just like Tommi Makinen! :banana:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #78 (Edited)
Re: Project Silverstreak: Perrin Gauge install!

Well it finally happened! After three seasons of autocrosses and time attacks I broke something. The left rear shear pin (aka CV axle).



First run with brand new RE71R's (aka axle breakers). I went to launch then BOOM! What was amazing is the car was still pretty quick. Anyway, it didn't feel right so I limped off course, then a friend put it on his trailer and towed it back to my house while I drove his car. An Audi TTS. Nice car... so comfy!

I read somewhere that some Subaru engineer got the job of seeing how many launches it takes to break an axle. This was with an '04 I believe. I figured I've done about 23 events in the last three years averaging 4-5 runs per ...so pretty close to his assessment. Anyway if the new axle lasts three seasons I'll be happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
723 Posts
Re: Project Silverstreak: Perrin Gauge install!

Well it finally happened! After three seasons of autocrosses and time attacks I broke something. The left rear shear pin (aka CV axle).

[URL=http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/SubySal/STI%20journal/20170313_123402.jpg]Image Link
[/URL]

First run with brand new RE71R's (aka axle breakers). I went to launch then BOOM! What was amazing is the car was still pretty quick. Anyway, it didn't feel right so I limped off course, then a friend put it on his trailer and towed it back to my house while I drove his car. An Audi TTS. Nice car... so comfy!

I read somewhere that some Subaru engineer got the job of seeing how many launches it takes to break an axle. This was with an '04 I believe. I figured I've done about 23 events in the last three years averaging 4-5 runs per ...so pretty close to his assessment. Anyway if the new axle lasts three seasons I'll be happy.
What should that look like normally?
 
61 - 80 of 149 Posts
Top