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Discussion Starter #1
Since all the posts are similar, let's do some more speculations :wink:

You know, maybe on january 15th, when we were all waiting for the release of the STi, Subaru had something in mind.........

MAYBE they were supposed to announce the STi as a exclusive beast 300HP, 300TQ model at 35995$ USD$ that would wipe all other brands ass for the money... At 35995$ USD$ it would have been priced near the Mustang SVT Cobra (ok ok, I know, Muscle american car compared to a import BUT similar performance but AWD for the STi) so it was a good deal to buy a STi.

MAYBE they have seen announcment of the EVO VIII the day before at 28995$ and they said :eek: :eek: :eek: "If we price the STi at 35995$, we will definitly not sell as much as we plan to and that could result in a great loss of people to the hand of Mitsubishi" so they decided to make a quick urgent meeting and decided to announce a low 30k price instead of saying nothing or announcing the car at 35k to avoid people going for the Evo VIII right away............

SPECULATIONS again but a good marketing strategy would have been to announce right away the "low priced" STi to immediatly make that people won't want the Evo VIII and want the STi and make people who weren't sure to place a order right away for the STi. Don't forget that right now, several people are ordering Evo VIII and more would do it if the STi is too pricy so it may have some sense that the original price announcment for the 15th of january has been reported...

Sorry for my english, since i'm from Quebec, I do my best to write correctly, hope you will understand everything in the post

Sylvain
 

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i think they're testing the waters and checking message boards like ours in order to see what the general consensus is on what people are willing to pay.
 

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I got the impression from the rumours before NAIAS and the mood there that Subaru really got blindsided by the US introduction of the Evo VIII... Like maybe they heard about it only a few months before NAIAS and had to get the STi ready in a short amount of time. The reason I say this is because rumours about the EVO VIII seemed to really start flying around this last summer, whereas rumours about the STi jumped significantly around October / November. Then you have to look at the fact that both the EVO VIII and the STi were shown on the same day at NAIAS, and both were nearly (95%+) production models, but the EVO VIII had way more details (weight, acceleration specs, pricing) and a much sooner release date. This makes me think that Mitsu has had a good deal more time to plan the US launch of the EVO VIII than Subaru has with the STi. Last but not least, there's the features. I like Subaru and all, but the fact of the matter is that Foreign car companies have always viewed the US as somewhat of a liability in that they've never been eager to produce full-fledged sportscars for US comsumption, most likely due to the rampant lawsuits and enhanced legal liability that the US market brings. I simply cannot believe that they would release a car so close to the WRC model for any reason other than lack of time to make what they would consider prudent changes.
Just my $.02
 

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Rear Diff Type?

hmm. i thought rumors about the sti and evo coming started back in 2001; i.e. like back when JJ started this forum in august 2001. nevertheless, there is a logic to your suggestion. if they've been working/considering it for so long, why is *the* critical spec ($$$) missing and why a "delayed" release? dunno.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The thread is becoming more and more interesting :)... I agree with you guys on everything right now. Why no pricing? Why no weight? Why did they not tell the options on the car? MAJOR issues... Did they found it was becoming a "big pig" compared to the Evo VIII and decided to try to reduce weight between now and until the official production date? Same thing for the price OR:

It's *really* planned for a while now and it's a marketing strategy not to tell the price (maybe they will come with 29500$ and with almost the same weight as the Evo) so they will totally screw up Mitsubishi's ass............ For now, we can just wait and speculate on weight, pricing and some options like the wing or whatever :)

Sylvain
 

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Well as per the Mitsu press releases, the EVO VIII will be available in February. I can't see how it could benefit them to let speculations fly only to come out on top in the end. I mean, they would most likely just lose hundreds of sales between February and May.
I got a brochure with a letter from Subaru this weekend, it said pricing and other specs would be available shortly.
As for the price, I've spoken with three dealerships, one rep, and a booth bimbo and all five sugested that the MSRP would fall between $32K and $34K. I see a lot of big talk on this board about how all these people will pass on the STi if it's that much, but do you really think there's not people in line? The estimated production numbers (5K - 6K /yr) are around the same as the Honda S2000, and the dealerships still sell every S2000 that comes in, in pretty much every market. ~$34K is an excellent price for a car that will smoke just about everything with no mods, not to mention the amount of control that Subaru is placing in the hands of the driver (DCCD, Water Spray, 6-speed, etcetera) and the practicality for those of us who live in areas with heavy snowfall.
 

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All very good points mike, but you also have to look at the other options.

Granted not the same car, but the WRX is still an amazing car for $24k, which would be 30% cheaper than the STi. To that same effect, think about the models of other cars. You have the entry level, the mid level, and then the upscale version. You'd have a model that increases in value by nearly 100% if the STi is $35k.

At some point, you have to realize that performance isn't everything about a car. Think quality, build, comfort..... I know, I know, the STi is for the extreme enthusiasts and I plan to use the STi for that. However, you're talking some serious money here for a sports car! For that same money, you can have a great performing BMW that is a luxury vehicle. I'm sorry, but any Impreza is not a BMW. For $32, I'll take the all out sport of an STi. If it goes higher than that, it's either a BMW or a standard WRX with some fun toys.
 

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I agree with CloNeGTS, anything higher than 32k is pushing it. Plus, the WRX now comes with leather options etc. With a few toys added on, it would be an even more fun ride + everyday driver.

From what i've known about Subaru, they seem to exaggerate the price of their vehicles then dramatically decrease the price when released. If all goes well, we should be getting an STI that is comparable in price to an EVO VIII.
 

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Rob makes some good points Mike. True for performance the STi is sweet, but even the S2000 came with leather, its a roadster, etc.

The STi (in my opinion) has taken away the luxury and put it towards performance. There is no way they can do both for the same money, ie; M3. If the car reaches past a certain amount I'm going to go with a BMW 330i. I can get one over here delivered, tax free, pretty much fully loaded for $35K..so let's see here BMW 330 or STi for same price?! For $35 delivered I'll buy the STi, much more..no thanks Subaru...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just look it that way:

The Evo VIII is going to be available in march-april... It *looks* like Subaru are running everywhere to get us the final specs BEFORE Mitsubishi begin to sell their Evo because they don't want to lose sales to Mitsu...... I'm not 100% sure that Subaru already knew everything on the car (prices and final specs)... The Evo brochure is already finalized, announced and options are already unveiled......

YES, the STi gives us a lot of things but not only people on messages boards will buy this car... Here, we are sold to the STi but people who are looking at both with similar performance and "similar" specs might not all want the water spray, DCCD and some more things for the extra 3-4k...... Here, we will buy the STi but people who are looking at both may go with the Evo if the price difference is more than 3-4k... The STi and Evo VIII will always be compared in magazines so I think Subaru will aim low... That's what I think...

I have a company for now 12 years, you can't go blinded against competitors so Subaru can't go with 35k... People who are not sure between the Evo and the STi would definitly go with the Evo at a 6k difference, believe me. :wink:
 

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I think the reason we haven't seen pricing yet has been mentioned already, but the conclusions drawn from it are incorrect. Believable rumors of the EVO started picking up last summer. Once Subaru had a chance to look into it, they realised how behind Mitsubishi they really were. Both companies have been keeping tight lips, but Mitsubishi has seemed more prepared.

I think the reason is that Subaru has taken on a larger engineering project in a complete redesign of the STi, versus Mitsu regurgitating most of the EVO VII. The pricing is dependent on calculations done on average cost of manufacturing the product. Since Subaru is scrambling to complete all of the design for manufacturability, tooling design, assembly engineering, etc., while Mitsubishi just removes a couple of factors from their already established calculations, Subaru simply doesn't have the information yet to calculate MSRP.

So, IMO, Subaru can't give us final pricing because they haven't completed the final design for manufacture. They released what they could so that everyone wouldn't be so caught up with the EVO, that Subaru would lose their potential customers. This way they let us know it is coming, keep us excited and in line, and even draw potential EVO customers away with a list of specs that were obviously selected to compete with what Subaru anticipated Mitsubishi was going to do with the performance of the EVO VII. The funny part is that Mitsubishi went the entirely opposite direction, and potentially lost the battle. At least for this year.

I think right now Subaru is searching for every little manufacturing corner they can smooth out to reduce the MSRP of the STi. Typically top of the line performance cars do not make near the profit of average commuter cars. Their benefit comes from brand recognition. Subaru may even be contemplating making the STi an order only car, which would reduce MSRP by removing dealer holdback entirely. Honestly, I am not going to pass judgement until there is a car on the lot, and I am negotiating with the dealer. If things don't look good, I will walk away. The simultaneous release at least lets us pit the dealers against each other. If it were just the EVO out this year, I guarantee it would be getting marked up to $30k-$35k. If anything Subaru has saved us all a lot of money.
 

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Argh! Women drivers! Except for the good ones of course....

I agree the regular WRX is looking nicer if the STi price is too high.

Leather, and I am very bent on the sunroof option. If I get the STi I will have to spend an xtra grand for an aftermarket....
 

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Why are you so dead-set on a moon-roof? Looking at the picture of what they think the frame is going to look like it might not even matter that you want it though...
 

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I agree...why the sunroof so badly? I guess since I've never owned a car with one (but I've driven plenty with them) I wouldn't know. They are nice, but not worth the cost and rigitiy issues. Aftermarket is going to just cause you leaks and problems..for sure..go with the WRX and mod it if you want the sunroof.

VV, interesting points. I think you are definately right about brand recognition. One, the WRX STi brings serious performance to a name like Subaru (I still enjoy telling people I am getting a Subaru and they look at me weird). Two, it brings the name STi into America, which sets the stage for the STi Legacy, etc, parts, etc.

I agree, I don't think I would go with the Evo even if the STi is too much..its just not my kind of car. I am either going full sports (STi) or sports luxury sedan..but I want the first.
 

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VV, nice points. I believe you have the best theory so far.

Mitsubishi is delivering their evo VIII's in the second week of February. I know this because i have a friend whose evo will be at the dealership on feb 11th.
 

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VV.....excellent post. Until this post, I'd never really thought that deeply into how and why things have played out the way they have. I think you are telling a great deal of the truth.

In regards to the sunroof issue...I don't see where people go pulling these rigidity issues from. With current production cars, engineers (such as myself) have realized that cutting thru a structural member to put a glorified hole in it's place is not smart. Show me one current production vehicle in which the manufacturer is cutting something other than sheet metal to put the sunroof in, and then we can discuss rigidity. Otherwise, the only issues are weight....and to that point, running around with a spare is as big of a hinderance, not to mention stereo equipment, that double quarter pounder you ate for lunch.....

To back up my structural rigidity claim...here's a pic of the frame from the japanese Subaru site...



If I'm missing something other than the obvious, please let me know, but how can you honestly say you are affecting the rigidity of a frame when all you are doing is dropping a hope in sheet metal between frame members?

People get all crazy about weight savings and most times they couldn't tell the difference in a car unless it was a full size adult.

Personally, if subaru offered it, I'd love a sunroof. I've had one in all of my past cars I there is nothing like having the sun on your face on a nice spring day.
 

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Subaru won't *lose* STi sales to Mitsu. THe numbers for the STi are so limited that most people who want one will be waiting as it is. They will have no problem selling the quota.

If the numbers I've heard are correct (for the sake of argument), Subaru will bring 300 STi per month. Does anyone think that they won't sell that many in the US per month, even at 35k?

Just trying to be realistic, here.

growl
 
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