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Discussion Starter #1
ll, like many of you guys here i have been researching alot of different options regarding modding my sti.
trying to figureout what is safe and what needs to wait for eng mngmt.
well aside from guru (dan) most of the performance shops i have called or emailed have given different views on what to do and what works.
also, it seems like none of them have experienced the most common prob we seem to be having... boost creep with tbe's.

xxtuning in ct:
1. recommends hks dp when doing a separate cat back
(personally, don't like the design @ all)
***edit, just found out it was one guy who likes it over the perrin***
2. will not give me a definitive answer if they will or will not port the wastegate on my turbo if i install a full tbe.
(they want me to upgrade to a vf34 instead!)
3. originally said "no prob" to perrin pulley, now they seem to be on the "harmonic dampener" side of the coin. (no biggie i guess, many people seem to be undecided about this)

speedsport teknika in ct:
major aps dealer. that's their blue sti on aps's site
1. seems to have never heard of boost creep @ all with a tbe on sti.
2. advises against porting wastegate
3. advises against perrin pulley (no biggie tho)
4. recommended cai over rai. (thought it was the other way around for sti)

easystreet:
they do have the quickest wrx in usa...so.....
1. again, has not had any creep issues with tbe.
(they sell their own bellmouth dp with injen ses catback)
2. recommends injen cai over any rai
(says rai's seem to cause more cel probs)
3. uses stock headers on their cars
(guess that's a good thing if our headers can handle that kind of power!)

basically, i am just wondering what gives?
i realize shops will always have differing views as to what works best...
but, it seems to be an all-too-common problem that sti owners have had issues with boost creep when installing full tbe's and many places seem to have never heard of the prob.
porting the wastegate seems to be a reliable fix along with having an ebc, but yet i haven't been able to find a place that will do it or acknowledge that fix.

anyone who wants to chime in please do so...
 

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If there was only one way of doing things, everyone would be doing the same thing, and what fun what that be? :D

Obviously, the tuners will encourage you to buy the things that they sell. Easystreet may have the fastest wrx in the US, but how much is their ESX740 package? $28,500 :eek: . But, they add nitrous, new transmission, etc, which are things I am not going to do. So, just because they have the fastest wrx does not mean they know what is best for me. For me, it comes down to tradeoffs between price, performance, and reliability. I am not interested in paying $28K to have the fastest STi. I am also not interested in melting my bumper with an exhaust system. That's why I am doing research and trying to figure out (from the guinea pigs :D ) what are the best aftermarket products for me. It's still fairly early in the STi modification process, so there's bound to be more products and more testing come out that I can draw information from.

So, as for your question "What gives?", it's like asking why there are so many different models of cars...different people want different things out of their vehicles.
 

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I take offense to that. I do NOT make recommendations based on what I sell or what I make profit on. I can make money selling fuel rails but I know they do not help with anything and in fact cause fuel curve changes that can actually hurt more than they help so guess what? I actually tell people NOT to buy them even though other less srupulous shops (or less knowledgable) sell them to make profit. I base my recomendations from the tests I conduct on the dyno and the results and feedback I get from customers. I have found the least expensive way to make good power on this car but if other people want to spend more on other company's packages that's their own business. Now different tuners WILL have different preferred methods to make power and different styles but better for me to go back and rebuttle what others have said and let you make your own choice.
 

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xxtuning in ct:
1. recommends hks dp as #1 choice when doing a separate cat back
(personally, don't like the design @ all)

No idea why they would recommend that one. It blocks the wastegate flow badly and many have experienced creep with JUST this downpipe and an intake.

2. will not give me a definitive answer if they will or will not port the wastegate on my turbo if i install a full tbe.
(they want me to upgrade to a vf34 instead!)

VF34 is about same size as the stock VF39. I sincerely doubt you'd get any power increase and it is already undersized for the displacement. Any reputable shop can port the wastegate. It's a very simple procedure.

3. has not heard of txs's redesign of the rfl muffler to accomodate the sti and prevent melting.
(they just bend the hangers)

As I mentioned, not recommended to use muffler upgrade as boost creep will occur.

4. originally said "no prob" to perrin pulley, now they seem to be on the "harmonic dampener" side of the coin. (no biggie i guess)

Japanese cars have no harmonic balancers but they do have a minor rubber isolator between the belts to lessen NVH levels. We find them to work but not be worth the cost usually and some have reported false knocking when combined with lightweight flywheel (which makes more of a difference than the pulley).

speedsport teknika in ct:
major aps dealer. that's their blue sti on aps's site
1. seems to have never heard of boost creep @ all with a tbe on sti.

i'll have to talk to Mitch about that.

2. advises against porting wastegate

NO idea on that one. I think they just mean make sure someone reputable shodul do it so as to prevent customer's screwing up their turbo housing.
3. advises against perrin pulley (no biggie tho)

I generally agree

4. recommended cai over rai. (thought it was the other way around for sti)

I stick with the short rams. They work ell and are compatible with most of the FMIC kits out there.

easystreet:
they do have the quickest wrx in usa...so.....
1. again, has not had any creep issues with tbe.
(they sell their own bellmouth dp with injen ses catback)

Hmm. . . . odd.

2. recommends injen cai over any rai
(says rai's seem to cause more cel probs)

I have to tune Injens quite a bit due to the resonances caused by the longer piping. I actually recently cut one up for my new inlet pipe. I donot like using them unless I'm tuning the customer's car.

3. uses stock headers on their cars
(guess that's a good thing if our headers can handle that kind of power!)

They do retain heat better due to iron construction but I have had great luck with headers both in terms of power gains as well as knock resistance (which is important on this car).
 

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chrisfx811, i'm with you man.....i bought(under the recommendation of xx tuning) the hks down pipe....bad choice....wastegate chatter...and they also claimed no cel WRONG!....I got a great deal so i cant complain too much...the gt specII headers work great...and it's kinda hard to screw up defi gauges....but yet i'm left to feel "on my own" now that i have started modding and have a few glitches....the truth is I shouldve waited....but once i stepped in the shop my knees got weak....they had all the parts i had been looking at on the web.....so i spent some coin....made a mistake.....you live you learn....cel light..cruise blinks...it comes and goes....one day its there the next day its not.....the guru([email protected]) is probably the only one speaking honestly. the car is new most mods will be trial and error.....its not as cut and dry as get a big block,some good heads,a holley 850cfm,jet it,straight pipes,tranny rebuild,and rearend....those were the days! i feel my best option at this point,because i do see a performance increase in the mods i have done is start switching things around to see what works and what dont...that can be an expensive process...so research before you buy, and then research some more...i jumped right in...oh well.... i think(based on my dyno results) that a cai is better...i had a great curve a/f..to boost. the hks downpipe is too small so i will buy the godspeed dp....staticx313 is having a good result with it....and what could be wrong with porting and polishing the turbo? nothing it improves the air flow....reduces turbulence...so that with the dp i'm hoping will help.... but i wont know till i try....and try i will...the more i read the more i learn....and i guess i'll need an ebc,as guru suggests...and so the saga continues....until engine management come out we really wont know what the full potential of the car is...i'll be a guinea pig...like staticx313...and hopefully i wont run out of money :roll: i stepping off my soap box now
 

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Sorry, Dan, didn't mean to offend. I should've clarified that with "SOME" tuners (all advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt).

Just trying to make the point about tradeoffs (price vs. performance vs. reliability). The tuners mentioned here are a good example. Easystreet's main emphasis is on performance. Cost appears secondary. I can't say much about the quality/reliability.

Many of the tuners who sell packages try to balance all 3, since most people who buy WRX's don't have $30K to drop on upgrades.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Guru said:
I take offense to that. I do NOT make recommendations based on what I sell or what I make profit on.
i hope you don't think i meant that about you dan?
i, actually posted that you have been the only tuner thus far that has consistently confronted the issues head on, and have been str8 up as to what works and what is worth it or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
salisbury:
i was in the same boat, but my trip to xx was late @ night so i knew i couldn't just drop my car right there.
and i'm notorious for being a slow decision maker.
they def seem like a cool shop, but some of their recommendations have me puzzled.
with the cai, are you concerned about it's performance on the sloppy, slushy roads we'll be having here for a while?
 

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chrisfx811, to be honest...i hadnt thought of that...and i took the car out of the garage for the first time yesterday...roads were pretty clear by then...but the scooby mod cai i did it gets it's air thru the front inlets,and unless a storm takes me by surprise,which around here is likely,i will drive my wifes car in the snow, but it's funny....i have one of the best awd cars around and i dont want to drive it in the snow :eek: ...oh well it's everyone else i worry about....people without awd hitting me because the cant control their car....as for xx tuning....the tech is good....and he wasnt afraid to share his opinion about modding......however since i've started to have a few glitches....no response to my e-mails.....chris was nice....but i also want more work done so we'll have to see.....ideally i'd like to trade in the hks pipe for credit and put the godspeed dp...and an ebc....until then i'll just go easy on the car...keep it in the garage when i can....are you gonna go to prov place mall on the 14th? hope to see ya there
 

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Discussion Starter #10
30 yrs old but never too old @ heart.

ok, i spoke to speedpsort again and received some clarification from the guy on the phone:
1. without some form of eng mngmt they feel the tbe is the most logical upgrade.
2. they have not experienced the creep issue personally, although they have recieved 3 or so phone calls regarding this concern from customers.
(at least 2 of those are me :wink: )
they have not been made aware of that prob from aps either, and it is their car that aps is tuning
3. they recommend the aps cai over the rai, but they said it would require some tuning to be most effective
4. if boost creep was an issue they would tackle that prob from there, although i couldn't get an answer if porting the wg would be one of the options:-?
5. i asked them which ebc they would recommend, and they said they would NOT recommend one, but rather i wait for an eng mngmt solution to come out. unless i were upgrading to a bigger turbo before then.
overall, the gentleman who answered my questions was most helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
salisbury:
o/t: i own a retail business so sat is a big work day for me...
hit me up on aim if u ever wanna shoot the $hizz: chrisx811
i feel you on the driving in winter. the 4wd in my 95 bronco is acting up so i have to drive the sti, but i too am concerned about other people's cars, sand and salt on the roads, and the parking lot gremlins at the mall.
i hope they give you some sort of credit on the hks pipe. that pipe looks like a bad design for an aftermarket product. i hope the square you away and let u get what u want.
 

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I do not scrimp on price and those who look at the products I carry know that. That being said, I was still able to bring in te packages at much less money than others. I just installed my $2500 triple plate carbon clutch on my STi and I love it. Awesome clutch and can support 1000 HP but certainly not cheap.
 

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If those people haven't heard of the creep issues then stay away. Simply put, that reflects that they don't have a lot of experience with the STi itself. I would stick with the people who have hands-on experience - i.e. Godspeed and/or Vishnu.

-st
 

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Singletrack said:
If those people haven't heard of the creep issues then stay away. Simply put, that reflects that they don't have a lot of experience with the STi itself. I would stick with the people who have hands-on experience - i.e. Godspeed and/or Vishnu.

-st
Amen to that,,way too many of us have had the boost creep issue fr this to be a non issue with the the tuners/vendors.
Dans advice has been very helpfull as he has addressed the problem headon and given advice , tips,and recomendations be it his product or someone elses as we all try to get around the boost creep isssue.
The car is still in it's infancy,,we WILL figure out a solution, it will just take some trial and error.
Rudy
 

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I'm not a big fan of RSR products due to the many fitment issues and quality but moreso because of their theft of the RSR name. The real RSR went bankrupt last year in Japan. This new company is out of Taiwan and stole RS"s likeness, name and logos. Since RSR does not exist anymore, they can not sue.
 

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I don't understand boost creep. Could someone explain it or point me to a previous thread? I tried searching but didn't have much luck.
 

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Boost creep is when the wastegate can not flow enough exhaust around the turbo and this boost goes up as you increase load on the motor (say 5th and 6th gears. You can NOT control boost anymore when this happens no matter what you do. It is very dangerous. There are only 3 ways to solve problem:
1. increase restriction in the exhaust flow (ie, keep stock cat back exhaust)
2. install external wasgate and weld stock wastegate shut (expensive)
3. port wastegate so that it can better flow those gasses around the turbo and keep boost stable.
 

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OK, thanks Dan. Couple more questions...

Do you need a boost guage to detect it, or are there other symptoms?

Is a muffler alone enough to cause creep? I've got a Scoobysport. No other mods, not even an air filter.

I thought you were saying in the big clubwrx thread that the turbo was too small and wasn't able to maintain boost at high revs. How does that reconcile with boost creep?
 
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