IW STi Forum banner

3841 - 3860 of 3886 Posts

·
'do right & fear no one"
Joined
·
8,564 Posts
this argument is like the age old argument about whether a chick is good looking or not. Good looking compared to what? call it a draw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,383 Posts
I just want you to educate me. Where are all these 300 horsepower sedans, or even coupes that can equal or beat the STI?? You make it sound like they are everywhere. You said that the STI is just an average performer relative to most average cars and you've said that in other threads as well. So I just wanted you to list all of these average cars that can equal or beat the STI's performance stats, because I know i have looked for them and I can't find any that can match the STI's 0-60. 1/4 mile 0-100 or top speed, let alone handeling. The cars that I do find, are the ones you have already mentioned. The High performance camaro's and mustangs with 120++ more horsepower. Or other cars that cost 10,000 on up more and much more horsepower..which are relative uncommon on the roads. So again compared to the VAST majority of cars you'll encounter in daily driving the STI is in fact fast. You kept bringing up cars completely out of context, like 1000 WHP street machines and mega dollar and mega horsepower SUV's which are completely opposite of what you were saying were average cars. Also I don't know why it's so hard to downshift to the right gear in an STI and dust pretty much every modern "family" sedan, that you seem to think will be able hang with an STI from 45 MPH on up...sure maybe for a few seconds but after that it's night night when the STI starts pulling to its 160MPH + top speed.

As far as stage 2 2015 STI vs a stock 2015 mustang GT, your also taking things out of context a bit. As far as what it takes for the STI to put out the same horsepower numbers as the 420++ stock GT you are correct in that it will take an aggressive stage 2 with E85 to equal the numbers or just get close. But what you arent stating accurately is that a stage 2 2015 on E85 will easily out accelerate a 2015 stock GT, because as you seem to have started to understand the STI platform is so good that it punches way above it's weight(your words) for the horsepower it puts out such that an STI with the same horsepower is going to blow the mustangs doors off.....is there a sweet spot that the 2015 GT will generally always out pull the STI stock or stage 2, sure and you mentioned that. But there are also sweet spots the STI has that it will generally out pull the GT stock and stage 2.

As for top speed any car that can go over 160 MPH better have several miles clear in front of them if they are going to do it. I get what your saying relative to highway pulls to top speed and how quickly one car can get there over another and sure a 420+ horsepwer Mustang will have an advantage there, but the STI still ultimately can pull out a few more MPH....so on a test road that lets each car get to it's top speed the STI will be as fast or faster at the limit...again with 120++ less horsepower , extra parasitic loss from allwheel drive sedan etc etc. 165 MPH??? That's is a fast car in the context of what we are talking about and way faster than the majority of average modern production cars you'll see in daily driving on the street.


I just want you to know, I am NOT hating on the STI. I just personally feel the car is begging for more power from the factory because its chassis, brakes, and suspension are all so good. Those acceleration #'s are not that impressive to me is really the only thing I am getting at.

I don't mean to offend others when I say it might seem fast if you're coming from a normal car, but that does have some truth in it. Obviously if you have been in any decently quick cars, you aren't going to be really too impressed with the STI's power.

Sure there may not be many other cars besides, the RS, Golf R, and Evo that are similar in price and in acceleration. However, that was never anything I was arguing against. That point is completely irrelevant to me hence why I am not really arguing against it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,954 Posts
I just want you to know, I am NOT hating on the STI. I just personally feel the car is begging for more power from the factory because its chassis, brakes, and suspension are all so good. Those acceleration #'s are not that impressive to me is really the only thing I am getting at.

I don't mean to offend others when I say it might seem fast if you're coming from a normal car, but that does have some truth in it. Obviously if you have been in any decently quick cars, you aren't going to be really too impressed with the STI's power.

Sure there may not be many other cars besides, the RS, Golf R, and Evo that are similar in price and in acceleration. However, that was never anything I was arguing against. That point is completely irrelevant to me hence why I am not really arguing against it.
Oh I know you are a big fan of the STI, and I understand why you feel the way you feel about its acceleration...but that's just it..your points are subjective based on perceived opinions and feelings. Lots of cars "FEEL" fast but can not post acceleration times that are actually OBJECTIVELY and relatively fast in actual hard performance numbers. A 2015 corrola S or Maxima or Camry will feel fast and sporty sure. But when you look at what you are saying relative to actual specs and what the 2015 STI can do performance wise vs average cars and even cars with 120++ more horsepower in an objective study, it is a relatively fast car and not average at all. Line up those cars from 0-100 , 0-60, 1/4 mile top speed, handeling etc etc, and see which 2 are the ones that are actually objectively fast and not just "feel" fast. Keep it in that torque peak buddy:tup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,383 Posts
Oh I know you are a big fan of the STI, and I understand why you feel the way you feel about its acceleration...but that's just it..your points are subjective based on perceived opinions and feelings. Lots of cars "FEEL" fast but can not post acceleration times that are actually OBJECTIVELY and relatively fast in actual hard performance numbers. A 2015 corrola S or Maxima or Camry will feel fast and sporty sure. But when you look at what you are saying relative to actual specs and what the 2015 STI can do performance wise vs average cars and even cars with 120++ more horsepower in an objective study, it is a relatively fast car and not average at all. Line up those cars from 0-100 , 0-60, 1/4 mile top speed, handeling etc etc, and see which 2 are the ones that are actually objectively fast and not just "feel" fast. Keep it in that torque peak buddy:tup:

I am glad we can come to some sort of twisted agreement. Although I will say it is always a pleasure debating, lol. Lets hope for your sake the next gen STI pushes 400hp+ so I can no longer make this argument :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,832 Posts
I am glad we can come to some sort of twisted agreement. Although I will say it is always a pleasure debating, lol. Lets hope for your sake the next gen STI pushes 400hp+ so I can no longer make this argument :lol:
Oh it should also push full boost at 2000rpm :rolleyes: numbnut.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,275 Posts
Honestly, I was never arguing that a STOCK STi of any year would ever even hang with a coyote 5.0...definitely not on the highway and not even from a dig. With equal drivers, it would be close from a dig for like 2 seconds, then the Mustang would show you why people say there's no replacement for displacement, lol. I agree with all of that.

What I AM saying is that MY PARTICULAR STi is not stock, and is above stage 2, but still on the stock turbo and headers, running 93 octane. SOMEHOW, magically, I have never lost to a mustang, 5.0 coyote or otherwise. Now, I'm also smart enough to refrain from racing GT500s, Cobras, and the like.

The closest I have ever come to losing to a Mustang was when I was dead even with my buddie's Mach 1 from 0-110 and he's got full straight piped exhaust from the block back, intake, and a tune. If you know anything about Machs, they're not exactly slow when modded and tuned, and I know for a fact this dude can drive the balls off his car. I probably had the most perfect launch ever, and I shifted so perfectly you could have recorded it and used the footage to teach future generations how to win at life. It was the most evenly matched race I have every been a part of. If either of us had slipped up at all, the other would have gotten an advantage.

In my case, it makes perfect sense, because my 320whp/360wtq puts me at about the same crank horsepower as a coyote 5.0 or a Camaro SS or whatever else with 400-430bhp, and then consider the fact that my car weighs a few hundred pounds less....all of a sudden, it's not such a lopsided affair. It's also no mystery to me that I haven't lost yet, lol.

And to echo your sentiments, you're absolutely correct, numbers don't lie. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,954 Posts
also I think there is a general consensus that the coyotes are a little under rated from the factory with respect to horsepower, I have read of RWH numbers of 370-390.

999 hits the nail on the head for sure when he states the STI is badly in need of a horsepower increase from the factory to get back the performance margins it once enjoyed among performance cars. Its still relatively fast for the horsepower it has, but is now more average relative to other performance cars that can post the same acceleration numbers. I know I wouldnt buy another one over my 06 unless there was a significant increase in power and a dual clutch option, although the former would be enough to get me interested. The 2015's are faster than the GR sedans and the new gen chassis is set up to handle well in excess of 400 horsepower, Subaru could make this car a beast, they could take it from average performance margins among high performance cars to performance margins that would really stomp.

Anyway as far as street racing...which I try to avoid anyway(that mustang I referenced happened to stop at a redlight next to me on an empty stretch of 4 lane highway) it's still a potent platform...good enough anyway to show plenty of cars the tail lights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
If my goal was to win highway races, or any straight-line race for that matter, I wouldn't choose the STi. It's well known the STi kills many vehicles in the first 300 feet and then falls flat on top, and it takes a decent investment to really sure-up the EJ25 and bring the top-end up to par. Am I crazy and alone on this statement? Can I get an amen?!

The STi is built with a nice twisty road in mind, something plentiful here in Colorado.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
657 Posts
If my goal was to win highway races, or any straight-line race for that matter, I wouldn't choose the STi. It's well known the STi kills many vehicles in the first 300 feet and then falls flat on top, and it takes a decent investment to really sure-up the EJ25 and bring the top-end up to par. Am I crazy and alone on this statement? Can I get an amen?!

The STi is built with a nice twisty road in mind, something plentiful here in Colorado.

I'd say your 100% right!

Thing is STi is still "quick" enough to still have fun going straight so many choose to do just that, go straight...

I find some are just too scared to do anything but go straight...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
657 Posts
I went WOT on a corner the other day and lived. Thats all I care about. My mustang would have made friends with the trees.

yea I remember when I first bought my STi all I wanted to do was try and drift it LOL

even in the rain with open center diff it was not easy just to go WOT and get sideways, have to dump the clutch to get some real wheel spinning in my experience... I was also a noob back then, still am actually LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,954 Posts
some good points in these last few comments. The mustangs increase in horsepower with the coyote engine also increased the "white knuckle" factor when "getting on it" on the street, especially if roads are damp or cold. The only thing I'd be scared of would be one of these cars trying to race me and getting sideways and taking out a utility pole or worse. Honestly I wouldnt race one on the street period..just for that reason alone. If I owned one I would'nt push it on the street at all, fun could still be had dipping into the throttle with that torque but any racing well, that would be for the drag strip or autocross track on weekends.

The STI traction and grip with a lot of throttle is amazing on dry and wet roads not even an issue. It's nice to be able to put down 100% throttle from rest at 4000 RPM while the all wheel drive just claws up the pavement and launches without so much as a peep from the tires as long as no other cars are around, the car still requires absolute attention to surroundings. The tracks are much more fun anyway, can't get tickets, they have all the room you need, it's usually like a car show at them, etc etc etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts
some good points in these last few comments. The mustangs increase in horsepower with the coyote engine also increased the "white knuckle" factor when "getting on it" on the street, especially if roads are damp or cold. The only thing I'd be scared of would be one of these cars trying to race me and getting sideways and taking out a utility pole or worse. Honestly I wouldnt race one on the street period..just for that reason alone. If I owned one I would'nt push it on the street at all, fun could still be had dipping into the throttle with that torque but any racing well, that would be for the drag strip or autocross track on weekends.

The STI traction and grip with a lot of throttle is amazing on dry and wet roads not even an issue. It's nice to be able to put down 100% throttle from rest at 4000 RPM while the all wheel drive just claws up the pavement and launches without so much as a peep from the tires as long as no other cars are around, the car still requires absolute attention to surroundings. The tracks are much more fun anyway, can't get tickets, they have all the room you need, it's usually like a car show at them, etc etc etc.
I agree the STI is easier to drive hard. I find myself driving more cautiously with the GT, while I can throw the STI around and WOT around corners. In that sense the STI is more fun for me and more smile inducing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,383 Posts
some good points in these last few comments. The mustangs increase in horsepower with the coyote engine also increased the "white knuckle" factor when "getting on it" on the street, especially if roads are damp or cold. The only thing I'd be scared of would be one of these cars trying to race me and getting sideways and taking out a utility pole or worse. Honestly I wouldnt race one on the street period..just for that reason alone. If I owned one I would'nt push it on the street at all, fun could still be had dipping into the throttle with that torque but any racing well, that would be for the drag strip or autocross track on weekends.

The STI traction and grip with a lot of throttle is amazing on dry and wet roads not even an issue. It's nice to be able to put down 100% throttle from rest at 4000 RPM while the all wheel drive just claws up the pavement and launches without so much as a peep from the tires as long as no other cars are around, the car still requires absolute attention to surroundings. The tracks are much more fun anyway, can't get tickets, they have all the room you need, it's usually like a car show at them, etc etc etc.
Believe it or not the new 5.0 is actually really easy to drive. Yeah I wouldn't be going WOT in corners with it like the STI, but I wouldn't consider it sketchy at all to drive hard on the street. Ford did a nice job with the car, and is leaps and bounds better than the previous generation.

I do know what you mean though, if someone wrecks and dies while they're racing you, your ass is on the line. Hence why I no longer really mess with randoms on the street anymore. I have too much to lose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,275 Posts
See, I'm basically at the point where I would need to upgrade my suspension/tires to go WOT on corners. I enjoy a straight line race as much as the next guy, but about every weekend I take the STi on lonely back roads and push the limits on every corner. Straight line performance is great, but a good balanced car for cornering is where it's at, honestly.

Now that my block is built to handle the power, I'm seriously considering going to the track and putting it through its paces. I was always too scared before to track it, for fear of blowing a ringland or spinning a bearing or any of the other catastrophic failures stock EJs have become famous for. The nearest track to me isn't close, so it would be a hell of a day to drive all the way out there and need a tow home, lol.

And I agree 1,000% that a stock STi is BEGGING for more power. When my car was stock, I had a run in with a modded civic, and I didn't hear any turbo spool or supercharger whine, yet I was just barely able to pull a fender on him from a 50 roll. Literally the next day I started modding the car, lol....I don't care what he had done to it, for an NA Civic to be able to keep up with a stock STi is just ridiculous. Subaru seriously needs to add some more power. The next version of STi needs 330hp minimum, and that will only put it in the middle of the pack with G37, S4, and Focus RS numbers. I think 350hp is really where most people would like to see it, honestly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,954 Posts
See, I'm basically at the point where I would need to upgrade my suspension/tires to go WOT on corners. I enjoy a straight line race as much as the next guy, but about every weekend I take the STi on lonely back roads and push the limits on every corner. Straight line performance is great, but a good balanced car for cornering is where it's at, honestly.

Now that my block is built to handle the power, I'm seriously considering going to the track and putting it through its paces. I was always too scared before to track it, for fear of blowing a ringland or spinning a bearing or any of the other catastrophic failures stock EJs have become famous for. The nearest track to me isn't close, so it would be a hell of a day to drive all the way out there and need a tow home, lol.

And I agree 1,000% that a stock STi is BEGGING for more power. When my car was stock, I had a run in with a modded civic, and I didn't hear any turbo spool or supercharger whine, yet I was just barely able to pull a fender on him from a 50 roll. Literally the next day I started modding the car, lol....I don't care what he had done to it, for an NA Civic to be able to keep up with a stock STi is just ridiculous. Subaru seriously needs to add some more power. The next version of STi needs 330hp minimum, and that will only put it in the middle of the pack with G37, S4, and Focus RS numbers. I think 350hp is really where most people would like to see it, honestly.
The civic could have just as easily been using Nitrous Oxide, much more common than turbo or supercharger swaps.
 

·
'do right & fear no one"
Joined
·
8,564 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Funny this thread is talking about mustangs and wet. I had one want to play tonight (scattered showers) I had a few drops hitting my windshield. at 70, he went and I stayed. A second later we were into a healthy rain cloud where he started fishtailing 2 or 3 cars ahead of me. I am really glad I wasn't beside him when he started that.

All that being said, if he would have ended in a ditch (pretty stang glad he didnt) would that make me a winner even if I didnt go?
 
3841 - 3860 of 3886 Posts
Top