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Re: Killer B Pickup Tube=False Knock?

DISCLAIMER: I am not here to bash Killer B in any way. I am just trying to figure out what is going on with my car.

Back in March 2013, I got in a Killer B oil pick up tube installed in my 2005 STI. Car was otherwise stock. . . .

Trying to diagnose this issue almost 2 years later, it was mentioned to me by a tuning shop I was talking to that it could be the pick up rattling against the pan causing an issue, and that Killer B had a bad run of pick up tubes 1.5-2 years ago. I am now leaning towards THIS causing my false knock.

I don't want a discussion about why/how I think it's false knock. . . .

That discussion is exactly what you need, neither the pan or pickup tube are loose, correct? You better hope not!!! :)

Why aren't you blaming install? From your description its certainly the likely culprit. Anything that was removed, replaced or possibly bent. Heat shields are up there.
 

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Re: Killer B Pickup Tube=False Knock?

Im not willing to discount a heatshield, except the turbo heatshield because it was recently installed (Grimmspeed shield), and have a catless DP, but an certainly willing to check all other heatshields. Maybe the stock header shield, who knows.

Im all for easy checks. Thanks guys
The mounts on the shielding on the factory crosspipe failed on both of my GD's within 40,000mi. No problem with the GR thus far though!
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Re: Killer B Pickup Tube=False Knock?

That discussion is exactly what you need, neither the pan or pickup tube are loose, correct? You better hope not!!! :)

Why aren't you blaming install? From your description its certainly the likely culprit. Anything that was removed, replaced or possibly bent. Heat shields are up there.
Im definitely going to go through all steps of the install. I certainly hope the tube itself is not loose in the pan or the pan itself. Definitely will look at it though if need be. I just meant i dont want a discussion of how/why i think its false knock versus real knock. My main reasoning for that is because im sure with up to -12* of knock while cruising over 2 years something would have happened by now

Ill take a look at the cross pipe too. Id never thought of that being a possibility. Thanks so much everyone:tup:
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Re: Killer B Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Just to update-

Upon a smoke test, it was discovered that my MAF was leaking (o-ring not seated properly) and turbo to TMIC coupler was leaking on the turbo connection. Fixed MAF, switched connector side so it's tight on turbo, no more leak on smoke test. My TMIC to throttle body connector is also torn, so I need a new one of those if anyone happens to have one for sale.

Mounts were looked at. My engine mounts aren't necessarily broken, but are in rough shape. What was discovered was a lot of misfiring on cylinder 4. Went in for a compression test on that side fearing the worst, compression is fine with cyl 2 at 143 and cyl 4 at 145. Leakdown was a tad worse off, but not bad for the 126k mile engine, I was told. cyl 1 at 6%, cyl 2 at 3%, cyl 3 at 10%, cyl 4 at 6%. Spark plugs were taken out and re-gapped and re-torqued, car ran better, but still misfired on cylinder 4. Swapped cyl 2 and 4 coilpacks, misfire did not follow.

Next step is to check grounds in engine, and then if not it's looking like an injector issue. If anyone has any other thoughts or suggestions feel free to post them up. At this point it seems to have nothing to do with the killer b oil pickup tube.
 

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Re: Killer B Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Being on the path to finding the problem is better than having no clue :)
Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Re: Killer B Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Well, still no fix on this (for anyone looking through this thread having a similar issue).

After cleaning grounds, new TMIC hoses, some fuel cleaner, and seafoaming the engine, the car runs smoother and the Cyl 4 misfire is gone. However, I still have the knock. The car will be heading to Innovative Tuning in Buffalo to crack open the oil pan and look for something that may be loose/contacting in the pan w/ the pickup tube (oil pan needs re-sealing anyway), getting Cusco engine/trans mounts to replace the very worn (130k mile) mounts which may be causing the knock, and new front sway bar endlinks so I can pass inspection. Will update with results.

Also wanted to give a shout out to Geoff at Cygnus Performance and the guys at Innovative. Geoff has always given me the best prices on all of his parts and is always the first one I call when I need something new. Also, Mike and the guys at Innovative have been nothing but helpful and patient with me and my questions while we try and solve this issue. Would recommend both companies to anyone.

Hope everyone is having a happy and safe 4th of July:banana:
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Well, it was a pretty eventful day at Innovative Tuning.

First of all, I just want to say that the guys there are great. I've never met a friendlier and meticulous staff out of the tuning shops I've been to.

Firstly, it was decided the header heatshields were rotten, so they came off permanently. When the oil pan came off, everything was inspected and was completely okay as far as the pick up tube is concerned, minus the shiny metal shavings at the bottom of my oil pan. I'm not sure when they're from/why they were there after going through a list of possibilities, but I've decided I will be getting an oil analysis through Blackstone at my next oil change.

Exhaust leak was just at the DP to catback gasket, didn't worry about it. No boost leaks after a test. Oil leak fixed, which is nice. New endlinks went on nicely. The Cusco mounts are GREAT. I don't regret them one bit, and the NVH doesn't bother me at all. I like the feel a lot, actually. Car feels fantastic.

However, while the mount (motor, trans, pitch stop, and cross member bushings) are all stiffer, I still have knock just as high as ever. My only other idea is to look at the sensor itself even though I've been informed multiple times that 2005+ Subarus and STIs don't really have issues with the knock sensor itself, but it's the only idea I really have left.
 

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New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Metal shavings aren't what I'd want to find in my oil pan...

That aside, presuming it's false knock, how is your clutch? When you see the knock, is it instantly -12 or does it build up? Is it under specific driving conditions? I know you said never under boost or load. You said the car was stock on the pickup install... Is it still now?
 

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Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

So, the header heatshields were toast, did you check the up-pipe heatshield? Very common for those to be broken and rattle causing false knock.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Metal shavings aren't what I'd want to find in my oil pan...

That aside, presuming it's false knock, how is your clutch? When you see the knock, is it instantly -12 or does it build up? Is it under specific driving conditions? I know you said never under boost or load. You said the car was stock on the pickup install... Is it still now?
Yea the metal shavings are a thing of their own. I'm just not going to worry about it until my next oil change because there's nothing I can immediately do about it besides a new engine, and that's just not really possible at the moment.

The clutch is stock as far as I know and it's fine. Never had it slip and grabs well from a stop. I have no lightweight pulleys. When the knock does hit -12, it usually does shoot right up there. However, it does not always go up to -12. Sometimes it's 4, sometimes 6, sometimes only 2. If it's at 2 or 4, I can hold throttle position and it drops over the next few seconds. If it hits higher, I can change throttle position, add or reduce, and the knock goes away immediately and completely. The knock only consistently out of boost. Sometimes when I accelerate quickly after upshifting I get a hint of knock even if it's a smooth shift, other times it just randomly shows up while cruising at any RPM really. I've had it occur from 2K RPM to slightly over 3K RPM just cruising.

Pickup is a killer b pickup, and that's what was inspected and re-installed today.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

So, the header heatshields were toast, did you check the up-pipe heatshield? Very common for those to be broken and rattle causing false knock.
I did not check that. Good call
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Talked to the guys at Innovative. They had said the up pipe heatshield was rotted and broken, but together. They left it on due to heat concerns. Guess it's time for a new, coated/wrapped up pipe. Just trying to decide if I want to do this, the knock sensor, or both.

I had plans for an EWG setup, but don't really have funds for the fueling recommended to go with it at the moment
 

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Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Just asking. The guys at the shop didn't think the metal shavings in the pan had anything to do with the elusive knock you're chasing?
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Just asking. The guys at the shop didn't think the metal shavings in the pan had anything to do with the elusive knock you're chasing?
Not quite the case at all.

In reality, we're not really sure where the metal shavings came from or when they're from. Like I said, we went through a list of what the usual suspects are for metal shavings in an oil pan, and none of them were the case. However, it was mentioned that if the bearings have a lot of clearance (which is what they speculated the shavings were, bearings) could certainly cause the knock. For this reason, I'm just waiting until the next oil change to do an analysis and see what comes up.

Back in March, even with the knock going on for ~2 years, my main misfires were the typical cylinder 4, however the compression on that particular cylinder was 143, IIRC. Leakdown was also fine on that cylinder, and was actually only somewhat high on cylinder 2 or 3, I don't remember.

I know things change all the time, but the compression and leakdown were pretty telling of it not being a real, internal knock issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Would anyone here personally recommend getting yet another compression and leak down test? Again, the last ones were done in March of this year. I'm running out of ideas for this issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Didn't realize you got absolutely hosed on NABISCO for posting the exact same thread. Funny how you "edited" your IWSTI thread title though... :rofl:

Killer B Pickup Tube=False Knock? - NASIOC
Gotta try to keep the masses happy somehow ;) Plus there was nothing wrong with the pickup tube in the end, so I figured it's good to edit it anyway
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Re: New Pickup Tube=False Knock?-UPDATE

Well, it's fixed. Turns out it was the knock sensor itself, even though I got no CEL. Changed it and no knock. Also fixed a misfire on cylinders 2 and 4 by putting in 2 used but functioning stock injectors. All is well with the car again. Let it be known that the knock sensor in STIs can just go bad, even though I heard from dozens and dozens of people that they've never heard of it happening.
 
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