[StiLimited]

Hello,

I rarely post here but I'm in a bind here and looking for some help.

My car is 2007 Sti.

2 years ago I had ring land failure on the stock pistons. So I had a new engine built. Due to Covid and lock downs it took till this year to get it installed.

I have been driving it with the "break in tune" for about a month. (400+ miles so far.)

Here are the symptoms:

Idle is horrible when I start it. It takes a full 2 minutes for it to stabilize. Once it does it's good. I can then drive it for 20-30 minutes and it's a dream. No issues.

After that time, if I come to a stop, the engine wants to die. It'll go crazy trying to find an idle. At least half the time the engine will just die. Quite often as I'm coming up to a stop sign or light I'll see the red light, drop it in neutral and coast to the light. By the time I get there, the engine has died.

The tuner who gave me the break in tune sent me an updated tune and it helped. For awhile. But now it's back and worse then before. IOW the problem seems to be mechanical, not the tune.

The tuner will no longer respond to my emails.

The guy who did the work was supposed to be a Subaru guru. He had 20 Subies in his shop when I meet him. He has 2 employees. Seemed like a knowledgeable guy.

But when I got the car back initially I found:

#1. Fuel pressure sensor (aftermarket) was installed in the return line, not the pressure line. (I have fixed it now.)
#2. The OEM EBC was plumbed backwards. When I informed him of this he sent me the instructions for some aftermarket EBC. I said that's not what I have and he said 'Oh, I thought you did." The boost side went to atomsphere and vice versa. I took pictures and video showing how it was hooked up wrong. I read dozens of forums and article to confirm, it was 100% backwards. (I have fixed it now.)
#3. The clutch shield was left off. No reason why.
#4. The air pump was not hooked up. He said there was no reason to hook it back up as it has "no where to go." I don't know what that means. That I can tell there are lines from it going someplace under the TMIC but I have no idea where or where they are supposed to go.
#5. The rear O2 sensor wire was not tied up, it was literally laying on the 2nd cat.
#6. There were various other scratches on the car that were not there when I dropped it off. Some serious.
#7. There was about 1/2 cup of oil on the top of the engine. I removed the TMIC and cleaned it up, it has not come back. The oil level has remained good. The guy said they "might have spilled some when filling it." (But clearly to lazy to pull the TMIC to clean it.)

And there are more items but you get the idea.

So clearly I picked the wrong shop. I'm NOT naming anyone at this point until I know exactly what the underlying issue is.

So here is my way of thinking: Whatever it is, is temp related. Once this dying starts there is no going back. I can reset the ECO and it still does it. The only way to resolve it is to let the car sit overnight and go totally cold again.

I have no faith in the guy who did the work. ZERO. I do not want to take it back to him because I don't believe he knows what he is doing.

The tuner will not respond to my emails. I know he's busy and he already has helped me so much I understand his position.

I'm hoping someone can offer some advice as to what this could be so maybe I can fix it myself.

The only CEL I get is P0442. But I had this code since before the old engine retired itself. I have checked all the obvious things (fuel cap, cracks in hoses, etc) Everything visibly looks good. And I had it with the old engine and the new engine. Some of the items off the old engine were reused on the new so maybe it's there, but that I can tell it looks okay. One thing I am not sure of is are all the hoses routed correctly. Since he got the EBC and fuel pressure sensor wrong, that is my primary concern. I know old domestic cars very well but these new ones I'm pretty ignorant of. But I am willing to learn.

P0442 is the only CEL I get. I can clear it and it fixes nothing. (Cobb AP). No other codes. And the car acts up the same way whether I get the code or not.

This has to be some valve that opens up when the car is well into operating temps. That is causing a vacuum leak.

Also monitoring the knock, it shows pulling timing from time to time. I have seen as much as -11. I'm running 91 (Shell Premium, that's all I have were I live) and that is what the tune is for. I have even added Boostane to get it to 94 Octane and even 97 and it's made no difference.

On the highway it runs well. Smooth as silk but at idle, backing into the garage, maneuvering thru a shopping parking lot is a nightmare. It'll die 3-4 times before I can get out.

And it's getting worse. Tonight the engine sounded like it was running on 3 cylinders. Very lumpy idle, almost trying to die and then save itself and then repeating over and over.

The only other tidbit I can offer is the oil pressure is all over the place at idle. 20psi, 5, 1, 15, 5, 7, 15, 3, 20, etc.. At RPM it's fine. 40-50 psi pretty steady. I suspect that is an effect of the idle issue, not the other way around.

So if you have some time and insight I'd love to hear it. If you have photos of that EVAP system at the engine, and were all those lines are supposed to go that would be great. Anything else? I'm all ears.

Thank you.

 

[knyg]

I have no helpful input but you have my condolences. What a shitty position. With such an investment I would have definitely done a lot more research on who touches the car. Your mechanic shop is definitely a shitter and you should not hide their company. Shitty people should get blasted and have a bad reputation. Save a homie. Not condoling brigading.

 

[Karlot]

Where are you located? sounds to me like it's more than likely a mechanical issue(s) because of shotty work from the shop you went to. If we know where you are located we may be able to help find a shop that is a quality subaru performance shop close ish to you.

so far as the tuning side, you can reach out to @yamahaSHO on here. he's a well known tuner (jaz tuning). and if there is a tuning issue, i'm sure you could hire him and get sorted out on the tuning side without any worries. Even if you arent near him he can remote tune the car and will explain the whole process (remote/e tuning is not anything to worry about, some people will make it out to sound like it's worse than a dyno, it's not, at all, provided the tuner is competent, which from multiple reviews you can find on here, yamaha is)

 

[AustinSedz]

IMO you want to get this in to a shop so they can go over all the relevant sensors and make sure they are connected properly and showing proper current readings with a voltmeter (so you know they are working), then address the tune.
The idle hunting under temp leads me to believe front 02 sensor, temp sensors, Idle air control valve, or throttle position sensor.
Something that controls or impacts idle but would be impacted directly by it's surroundings changing temp and altering the operating range on readings.
If your shop was reluctant to plumb the air pump that leads me to believe he may have been lazy in other areas.
What you are describing sounds a lot to me like a faulty or failing IAC valve.
Make sure that is connected properly or try to find how to test it with a volt meter (a thread likely exists here or elsewhere).

Since the issue is inconsistent that tells me something is hooked up wrong/shoddy or something is on it's way out but it's not completely failed.

 

[Jay11STI]

This sounds like a sh*t show. Im sorry this has gone so poorly for you. What are your AFL 1 values on the accessport while at idle and while driving? Like Austin mentioned, its possible this could be IAC, MAF, or possibly oxygen sensor. I would say do a boost leak and smoke test. Lets make sure you dont have any air leaks before throwing parts at it.

 

[StiLimited]

Thank you all for your replies. The closest metro area to me is Las Vegas. And I agree, I need to get it to a shop that I KNOW FOR sure knows what they are doing. Thanks for the tuner suggestion. I'll contact him.

 

[StiLimited]

I have no helpful input but you have my condolences. What a shitty position. With such an investment I would have definitely done a lot more research on who touches the car. Your mechanic shop is definitely a shitter and you should not hide their company. Shitty people should get blasted and have a bad reputation. Save a homie. Not condoling brigading.

I agree and normally that's what would have done. But this was just about the time everything was getting locked down and I emailed a dozen places. Only 2 responded that they were taking work. This one and other. But the other was not a suby specialists so I went with the guy who had 20 subies in his shop... :-( Yes, bad on my part.

 

[StiLimited]

deleted. irrelevant to this discussion

 

[Karlot]

Well basically I am F*cked. The Cobb Software will no longer connect to my AP. I tried to reinstall the old version and it will not run. It says I MUST upgrade to the newest version which will not communicate with the AP. I can't log. I can't send maps to it. I just spent an enormous amount of money on an engine and car that I can no longer maintain. Or use. I'm stuck with the break in map for the car. Which runs like shit.

I’m not sure why you’re surprised that the software wouldn’t work. This has been news for months. That said. You can get tuned. You can go open source for sure through a tactrix cable. Possibly hptuners or ecu tek (not sure if these require emissions related items to still be around). And standalone would work although it’s very expensive. Cobb works fine if you retained all your emissions related items.

reach out to @yamahaSHO. He’s a well known tuner on Here and can likely help.

 

[Jay11STI]

Regardless of which tuning platform or tuner you decide to go with now, you still need to make sure the car is mechanically good. I would still make sure at the very least that dont have any serious air leaks before going forward with alternative tuning methods.

Given your situation, I think its time to take this to a professional and let a subaru performance shop look at it. You're definitely going to have to spend some money on diag.

 

[got2boostit2]

Thank you all for your replies. The closest metro area to me is Las Vegas. And I agree, I need to get it to a shop that I KNOW FOR sure knows what they are doing. Thanks for the tuner suggestion. I'll contact him.

I know a guy in Vegas, you can contact him via Instagram, he might be able to point you in the right direction for local help. Thomas Smith Racing on IG.

 

[StiLimited]

Thanks for all the replies. I have contacted Jaz and he's been great via email. Very helpful. I'll also look into Thomas.

I have done is a smoke test and the results were dismal. It's leaking badly from the inlet duct into the turbo and for some reason on the drivers side either the TGV to head or manifold to TGV is leaking. (pass. side seems fine.) At least that's all I can tell right now. I'll pull the TMIC and redo the tests to confirm (hoping maybe it's a line that was not hooked up.)

On the Cobb, I found the problem there too. Cobb tech was an idiot. She tried to tell me it would not work under Windows 7 when just weeks before I hooked up and d/led logs and uploaded 2 maps w/o a problem. She said I had to upgrade to Windows 8 or 10 for it to work. (BS.) Turns out the Cobb AP does not like USB 3 ports. I had to use an old extension cable and USB 2 ports and after I did that it worked fine.

UPDATE:
I have pulled the intake and TGVs, and confirmed the leaks. I don't know why the intake leaked, other than the bolts were not torqued down properly. The turbo inlet was torn badly. I'm a bit older and have back issues so I might try to find someone to help or just do it for me, but after my experience with the other guy I'm reluctant to trust anyone. :-(

 

[AustinSedz]

Thanks for all the replies. I have contacted Jaz and he's been great via email. Very helpful. I'll also look into Thomas.

I have done is a smoke test and the results were dismal. It's leaking badly from the inlet duct into the turbo and for some reason on the drivers side either the TGV to head or manifold to TGV is leaking. (pass. side seems fine.) At least that's all I can tell right now. I'll pull the TMIC and redo the tests to confirm (hoping maybe it's a line that was not hooked up.)

On the Cobb, I found the problem there too. Cobb tech was an idiot. She tried to tell me it would not work under Windows 7 when just weeks before I hooked up and d/led logs and uploaded 2 maps w/o a problem. She said I had to upgrade to Windows 8 or 10 for it to work. (BS.) Turns out the Cobb AP does not like USB 3 ports. I had to use an old extension cable and USB 2 ports and after I did that it worked fine.

UPDATE:
I have pulled the intake and TGVs, and confirmed the leaks. I don't know why the intake leaked, other than the bolts were not torqued down properly. The turbo inlet was torn badly. I'm a bit older and have back issues so I might try to find someone to help or just do it for me, but after my experience with the other guy I'm reluctant to trust anyone. :-(

The inlet is a lot easier to do if you have the manifold off to access the TGV's.
With the manifold on it's a bit of a pain in the ass to snake into place.
Just make sure you put a strip of tape over the intake ports/TGVs so you don't drop anything into the ports while you work.

Since you're tuned, I'd take the opportunity to upgrade the inlet rather than do another brittle OEM one.
The OEM one is junk, as you can see, so that tear was bound to happen eventually.
Lotsa silicone options for cheaper or I picked up the KillerB cast aluminum inlet.
If you go with a hard pipe, even better that your manifold is off because it took me like 5 hours to get the inlet in place correctly with everything connected.
I'm pretty sure I saw that Cobb also makes a hard inlet now too, I could be wrong but somebody does.
You'll need your tune adjusted for it so keep that in mind.

 

[StiLimited]

Thank you all for the continued help. That hard intake is just what I'm looking for. I was going to make my own, but I might just buy the Killer Bee one.

Now here are some pics of the problem.

Gasket misaligned badly. When I did my smoke test I added dye to the mineral oil just for this reason. Here is the result:

Furthermore he never torqued down the intake or TGV bolts. when I put my torque wrench on the no 2 were the same torque and out of the 12 bolts only 3 were close to spec. The other 9 were far, far, far less. This is the result of that:

And of course the leaking intake duct where it was torn. All together I had 4 leaks on the intake.

I drove the car 500 miles like this. I'm praying I did not do damage to the rings or pistons. The AP showed it pulling a lot of timing. What was weird was when it was pulling timing: Not into RPM and boost, but taking off from a stop, and just low speed stuff.

My next post will be filled with a lot of questions. I hope I can find good info here.

 

[StiLimited]

Okay here are my questions:

#1, I would like to reroute the OEM fuel lines. My question is: the feed for the entire fuel system is only maybe 5/16" of an inch. All 4 injectors feed off that one line and that I can tell that's all these cars have all the way back to the tank. On e85 what is the max HP the OEM fuel delivery system will handle? ie, going to a bigger turbo w/o the fuel to supply it is pointless.

#2. I want to redo the OEM EVAP system. My 2007 has 2 valves. One to direct under boost and one to direct under non-boost. But this does not make sense because when I read how the EVAP system works, it's not supposed to evacuate the carbon cannister under boost. So why do they even route it that way? Seems to me only one of those valves are needed and only port it to the vac port on the manifold. If the valve is normally closed and only opens when the computer sends the signal and the signal is never sent under boost, then why the 2nd valve and all that extra tubing/hoses? Jaz sent me a diagram of how he did his but his didn't have 2 valves but only 1 valve from the factory.

#3. On the turbo intake duct we have 5 connections. BoV, PCV, and 3 more. I know the first two probably need their own ports (due to size) but why can't I just put all of the other 3 on a 4 way tee and connect to the intake tube at one point? (I ask this because I really am thinking about fabbing my own intake duct. I like the Killer Bee, but I think I can make my own for less than $100.) Having 3 points to the intake seems redundant, wasteful and overly complex. They are all venting to the same semi-atmospheric point, so why does Subaru make 3 additional points for these lines? And since I"m going to put my own AOS on and reroute all of them anyway, I'm just trying to make it as simple as possible. I don't like the cluttered look of all those hoses going everywhere.

#4. Back to the fuel system. I'm sure Subaru routes all those lines in mostly hard pipe under the intake for safety reasons. I get that. But it just seems to overly complex. Hard lines to rubber to hard lines to rubber, to hard lines back to rubber, etc. I'm thinking about cutting the hard pipes close to the rails and just running fuel hose between them. I can still route them under the manifold, just since they will be flexible they will make it a lot easier to run and work on the car. (One of the things that make getting the air duct out is all those clamps Subaru uses when transitioning from hard to rubber lines. I just do not get why they do that. Anyone know the reason?)

#5. The air pump. It goes into a wye and one side of that wye goes to a resonator. Why? Just seems like a PITA. Has anyone removed that and run it directly into that valve at the back of the engine instead? What sort of sound does it make? And even if it's terrible has anyone relocated that thing to anyplace other than under the manifold? Again, just trying to simplify things.

#6. The OEM PCV and crankcase venting system seems way over complicated. Why do they put 2 vent ports on each valve cover and right next to each other? I see the crankcase vent and it then goes UP and over and then back down to the valve cover vents. Why? Why not just run straight lines to the valve covers? Again seems overly complicated to me and make it more complicated than it needs to be, unless there is some technical reason they do that. I will be installing my own AOS and just want to run the rear vents on each valve cover and the crankcase vent to the input of the AOS and cap off those other vents in the valve covers. Can I do that? And what about the PCV valve? Where/why is that there? How is where it's drawing from different from that large crankcase vent? I must be missing something here.



Well that's enough for now. Thanks to all for the help.

 

[Karlot]

Okay here are my questions:

#1, I would like to reroute the OEM fuel lines. My question is: the feed for the entire fuel system is only maybe 5/16" of an inch. All 4 injectors feed off that one line and that I can tell that's all these cars have all the way back to the tank. On e85 what is the max HP the OEM fuel delivery system will handle? ie, going to a bigger turbo w/o the fuel to supply it is pointless.

#2. I want to redo the OEM EVAP system. My 2007 has 2 valves. One to direct under boost and one to direct under non-boost. But this does not make sense because when I read how the EVAP system works, it's not supposed to evacuate the carbon cannister under boost. So why do they even route it that way? Seems to me only one of those valves are needed and only port it to the vac port on the manifold. If the valve is normally closed and only opens when the computer sends the signal and the signal is never sent under boost, then why the 2nd valve and all that extra tubing/hoses? Jaz sent me a diagram of how he did his but his didn't have 2 valves but only 1 valve from the factory.

#3. On the turbo intake duct we have 5 connections. BoV, PCV, and 3 more. I know the first two probably need their own ports (due to size) but why can't I just put all of the other 3 on a 4 way tee and connect to the intake tube at one point? (I ask this because I really am thinking about fabbing my own intake duct. I like the Killer Bee, but I think I can make my own for less than $100.) Having 3 points to the intake seems redundant, wasteful and overly complex. They are all venting to the same semi-atmospheric point, so why does Subaru make 3 additional points for these lines? And since I"m going to put my own AOS on and reroute all of them anyway, I'm just trying to make it as simple as possible. I don't like the cluttered look of all those hoses going everywhere.

#4. Back to the fuel system. I'm sure Subaru routes all those lines in mostly hard pipe under the intake for safety reasons. I get that. But it just seems to overly complex. Hard lines to rubber to hard lines to rubber, to hard lines back to rubber, etc. I'm thinking about cutting the hard pipes close to the rails and just running fuel hose between them. I can still route them under the manifold, just since they will be flexible they will make it a lot easier to run and work on the car. (One of the things that make getting the air duct out is all those clamps Subaru uses when transitioning from hard to rubber lines. I just do not get why they do that. Anyone know the reason?)

#5. The air pump. It goes into a wye and one side of that wye goes to a resonator. Why? Just seems like a PITA. Has anyone removed that and run it directly into that valve at the back of the engine instead? What sort of sound does it make? And even if it's terrible has anyone relocated that thing to anyplace other than under the manifold? Again, just trying to simplify things.

#6. The OEM PCV and crankcase venting system seems way over complicated. Why do they put 2 vent ports on each valve cover and right next to each other? I see the crankcase vent and it then goes UP and over and then back down to the valve cover vents. Why? Why not just run straight lines to the valve covers? Again seems overly complicated to me and make it more complicated than it needs to be, unless there is some technical reason they do that. I will be installing my own AOS and just want to run the rear vents on each valve cover and the crankcase vent to the input of the AOS and cap off those other vents in the valve covers. Can I do that? And what about the PCV valve? Where/why is that there? How is where it's drawing from different from that large crankcase vent? I must be missing something here.



Well that's enough for now. Thanks to all for the help.

1- no real point in "re-routing". there's not really a limit ive seen for ethanol power, so long as you have the pump/injectors etc to get you there, i have seen people running 500+whp on the stock line setup. that being said, i dont suggest it, i would suggest getting IAG fuel line kit, specifically for your car, that is actually rated for e85. a fuel like kit is relatively cheap at approx 450, vs trying to re route etc, and these IAG lines have supplied very high whp builds. they have already done the r+d and you have a plug and play solution with those. probably the easiest you'll find.

2 - idk anything about emissions related items, mine is all deleted lol.

3 - are you talking about the turbo inlet? i dont think those vent to atmosphere, you have the boost solenoid connection, which wouldnt be vta, the evap, crank case, pcv, and bov. i dont believe any of these vent to atmosphere, and i would keep it running as subaru designed it, i maybe wrong on how they work/vent. so take that with a grain of salt.

, i'd also say that while MAYBE you could make one for cheaper, you will NOT have the r+d like KillerB puts behind their products. the making of one, hoping it works, and it gives you the benefits, is not worth 200 bucks imo. especially when it's just materials that would be less than 100 bucks, killer b designed this to be the best flowing inlet possible. to fit as well as possible, and to be the best option for a hard inlet. you can buld your own if you want, but honestly welding one vs just using their's seems like a no brainer to me.

4- see 1 again. so far as hard/soft for specific areas, i could venture guesses but idk specifically. just go with the iag kit. dont over-complicate things.

5 - wouldnt know, mine was deleted long ago. which makes it pretty simple. (although it's hard to find tuning for this with cobb's greenspeed update), in theory you can delete it/tune for it, but you'd have to run either open source tuning, or a standalone, and find a tuner who's willing to with the epa restrictions. not sure if ecutek or hptuners will allow those codes to be deleted or not. so check with tuner for if it's possible and if he/she is willing.

6 - why build your own when iag and killer b have done ALOT of r+d to get a part that works very well to be safe for the motor? i guess you can, it's your car. i'm just of the idea to not reinvent the wheel. if you want to fab parts, cool, but the time that goes into something like an aos,you could easily just put one on that is proven to work. and then you dont have to worry. to the other questions as to why the pcv system runs how it does, not sure, i'm sure subaru had a reason for it though.

 

[StiLimited]

1- no real point in "re-routing". there's not really a limit ive seen for ethanol power, so long as you have the pump/injectors etc to get you there, i have seen people running 500+whp on the

2 - idk anything about emissions related items, mine is all deleted lol.

3 - are you talking about the turbo inlet? i dont think those vent to atmosphere, you have the boost solenoid connection, which wouldnt be vta, the evap, crank case, pcv, and bov. i dont

4- see 1 again. so far as hard/soft for specific areas, i could venture guesses but idk specifically. just go with the iag kit. dont over-complicate things.

5 - wouldnt know, mine was deleted long ago. which makes it pretty simple. (although it's hard to find tuning for this with cobb's greenspeed update), in theory you can delete it/tune for it,

6 - why build your own when iag and killer b have done ALOT of r+d to get a part that works very well to be safe for the motor? i guess you can, it's your car. i'm just of the idea to not

Thank you for your reply.