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Stock ej207 is silky smooth (till you do solid engine mount and pitch stop lol). I can imagine this would be super creamy. Haha.

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Discussion Starter #62
Stock ej207 is silky smooth (till you do solid engine mount and pitch stop lol). I can imagine this would be super creamy. Haha.

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Oh it is. It's extremely smooth. After 4k rpm there's no vibration at all, it's just a heavenly exhaust note. I have GrpN engine mounts, the RCM modified GrpN trans mount, and a GrpA pitch stop and even at low rpm this thing is smoother than stock. The balancing work I did is very noticeable. All I can say is every part of this motor is better than stock and I'm very happy :D.

The tuner is gonna road tune it a bit today to get some of the low rpm light load stuff smoothed out as due to the bad axle he couldn't do much below 50% throttle on the dyno. But with that considered he did a pretty damn good job guessing as there's only 1 small window where it's a bit weird that he has to touch up.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Sorry for the lack of updates but I haven't been home much at all since the last update. Things have been going great with the car so far, full tune is scheduled for July 7th.

There were a small list of things that my tuner wanted me to change before the next tune. I needed a new DP due to the turbo flange on my old one being made wrong and causing a nasty exhaust leak and adding a 3psi spring to the WG actuator so he can keep the WG duty cycle where he likes it when we up the boost. I also went a head and changed out the turbo heat shield for a turbo blanket to get more room between the heat shield and the oil feed line and keep more of the heat in. The new DP I got was the invidea divorced WG one, He wanted me to go with a divorced DP and that is also the only one were he likes the design of the bell mouth. All the others out there either have lazy designs or nice "machined" designs but are actually terrible in function. I also liked that I was able to move my AFR sensor to just after the turbo to keep moisture out and have it be faster responding.






Another thing that happened is I picked up my new wheels. Apparently the reason I waited so long was a miscommunication. They thought they had called me saying they were there waiting but I never got it. Either way I have them and am just waiting on adapters. Which I have abandoned the shop I've been trying to get to actually make them after they emailed me saying how long it would take to make them. I went back to Motorsport Tech as they are fast and they are where I got my other 2 sets made without hassle. So those should be here in 2 weeks or so.



On an exciting note I blew my rad on Wednesday! Like actually blew it up........ coolant all over the front of my engine bay as the upper tank decided to say F&$k YOU. Luckily it happened as I pulled up to my driveway after getting home from doing some errands lol. Apparently 330whp on a 16 year old rad is too much :p. A CSF rad with the oil cooler is on it's way and will be here Wednesday/Thursday next week in time for me to put it in for the tune. I'll add the oil cooler components during the next oil change.
 

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Discussion Starter #64 (Edited)
Post tune update!

Got the new CSF rad and the spring in the WG actuator in the morning of then headed up to the shop we were tuning at. Everything was going just fine until we started ramping boost in to hold/make more power after 7000rpm. The reasons you go EWG became very apparent. Ramping up from 20 to 24 psi wqas not the issue, holding 24 after the ramp was. In the graph you can see it falls off after 7200rpm. That is caused by 2 things, one of them being the IWG. The other is on these 2L motors the stock intake manifolds are topped out at 7200rpm. Even with the cams, valves, and head work the restriction is my intake manifold. If I was FMIC and PW intake manifold we could have carried out the power until the turbo or fuel system ran out of steam and likely made 420whp at 8500rpm. But all things considered I am happy with the result and know what to do to carry this further out into the 8000s. So all in all I can't complain. The car drives great and is heaps of fun and sometimes scary as I've never driven a car with this much power before. Future plans will include going EWG and PW intake manifold, the IC setup is yet to be determined as I'm not sure if I want FMIC or AWIC. We will see what the budget and time will allow.

Final Numbers are 383whp/279wtq. Boost comes on around 4300rpm on the street. Dynapacks don't show spool like the real world does.




Here's the cracked rad....very weird how it cracked in the manner it did.



New monstrous CSF rad:




I'm now just looking to enjoy the car for a while and leave the tinkering alone for a bit. The car has been on the road for all of 5 months over the last 2.5 years and I'm hoping to put a stop to that now that everything is working and the build is finished. After all, cars are meant to be driven, not sitting in garages with missing or broken parts right? :D
 

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Not sure 8500 will work ouf too well on that turbo size.

I am on a 7163 and after 7 its dropping boost fast. Ewg will help but there is only so much you can push a small tu rd bo. You can rev it there but with rapidly dropping power, it wouldnt be fun.

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Discussion Starter #66
Not sure 8500 will work ouf too well on that turbo size.

I am on a 7163 and after 7 its dropping boost fast. Ewg will help but there is only so much you can push a small tu rd bo. You can rev it there but with rapidly dropping power, it wouldnt be fun.

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We would be ramping boost or upping the WG duty cycle to help compensate for that if it happens. We're already ramping from 20 to 24 psi from 6000 to 7200 (as indicated from the torque rise) but after that the IWG isn't capable of controlling that properly so it's dropped back off to 22 by 7600.

EFR turbos aren't as efficient as Garrets in the upper rpm area and my tuner knows how to keep a turbo spinning up high. He's surprised Garrett a couple times with how far he's pushed their turbos. We'll see how far it's able to keep up after EWG and IM and leave this turbo at that. My IM is the bottle neck right now so doing anything to make more power is useless until I get a PW manifold. Anything after that will be a new turbo possibly a G30 whence they are out and proven. If not then a 3071 gen 2 most likely, maybe 3076 but I don't know yet.

I'm definitely going EWG and water/meth next summer to smooth out the boost control and make things a little safer up top as we are also knock limited in the upper rpm area due to the compression ratio and IATs as we were heat soaking the TMIC.

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I recently read an article saying that BW/EFR low inertia bearing anx wheel make for quick spool and excellent response but it doesnt "scoop" and move as much as Garrett or Precision.

That being said, Pz Tuning Honda has an unbelievable power band on an EFR, amazing low, mid and higher range. I guess thats a K24 not an EJ turd.

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Discussion Starter #68
I recently read an article saying that BW/EFR low inertia bearing anx wheel make for quick spool and excellent response but it doesnt "scoop" and move as much as Garrett or Precision.

That being said, Pz Tuning Honda has an unbelievable power band on an EFR, amazing low, mid and higher range. I guess thats a K24 not an EJ turd.

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Yeah they are great for spool and response, but as you said they can't move the air a Garrett or Precision can. If you look at their dyno graph you'll see that even though they have that massive turbo, cams, high compression, ect, that turbo isn't making power after 8000rpm or so. My tuner has pulled a GTX35 (think it was a 3582) past 9000rpm on an EJ. But has yet to be able to pull EFRs any where near what he can do with the others on even on K series and F series Hondas. He's pulling a Precision to 9400rpm on his Supra ;)

BW them selves have even come out and said their turbines aren't as efficient and if you want it to be similar to a Garrett you need to go up 1 size in turbine on their turbo compared to a Garrett to get similar flow/efficiency. The only place I see EFRs being useful over the others is their small frame turbos for street/autox builds where all you want is spool and response.

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Yeah they are great for spool and response, but as you said they can't move the air a Garrett or Precision can. If you look at their dyno graph you'll see that even though they have that massive turbo, cams, high compression, ect, that turbo isn't making power after 8000rpm or so. My tuner has pulled a GTX35 (think it was a 3582) past 9000rpm on an EJ. But has yet to be able to pull EFRs any where near what he can do with the others on even on K series and F series Hondas. He's pulling a Precision to 9400rpm on his Supra ;)

BW them selves have even come out and said their turbines aren't as efficient and if you want it to be similar to a Garrett you need to go up 1 size in turbine on their turbo compared to a Garrett to get similar flow/efficiency. The only place I see EFRs being useful over the others is their small frame turbos for street/autox builds where all you want is spool and response.

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Agree on all fronts.

That is perhaps another reason, some of top WTAC teams are going twin turbo:
RP 968 going twin EFR 7163
Integrated Motorsport R34 GTR twin G660

The only point is transient response for road course application. If you are on the knife edge 10-10, BW will be easier to drive.

I am going Gen 2 GTX 3582 myself. I have a Full Race EFR 8374 on stand by with a partial sponsorship deal if I don't like the GTX.

I will share my impression and comparison.:tup:
 
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