MacPherson vs Evo's rear multi-link
Suspension/Stiffening
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I think that Suaru sticks to the inverted strut set up because it is bulletproof and solid, especially when you look at it from a Rally perspective. While a multilink may handle a bit better and have more adjustment, the strut design just plain works and is less costly.
Just my opinion :lol:
Just my opinion :lol:
Well, basically and in layman's terms:chawklit said:
MacPherson struts are pictured here:
http://impreza.subaru.com/microsites/impreza/wrxsti/wrxsti.jsp
The STi has them at all four corners
As far as an example of a type of multi-link suspension..this one is off the new mini:
http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/mini/5014_832.jpg
Basically as a car's suspension travels it changes every characteristic that a car has. toe, camber, etc.
"The MINI's multi-link rear suspension is unique in this segment. Its geometry is designed in such a way that the wheels always adjust to the best possible angle in relation to the road. The tires are therefore always in full contact with the tarmac. Changes in the camber of the road have no effect on steering or the car's traction."
The multi-link travels in a near up and down path, whereas the MacPherson struts move more at a inward curve, thus affecting the cars camber, etc. Control arms("A arms") do help the struts to keep a better "bite" on the road. The STi has lower control arms on all four corners. The Evo has lower control arms like the STi. The STi has MacPherson struts at all 4 corners and the Evo has them in the front with a rear multi-link.
A really nicely designed suspension is on the new 350Z. It has upper and lower, unequal control arms and a multi-link rear. I forget what it has in the front, but it does a good job of handling 3300+ car and a big ol' engine.
Can they clear the brembo brakes?
I honestly don't know that much about suspensions, but I have been trying to educate myself on just about everything I do come across. I suppose the suspension wouldn't change toe, but the car would change dramatically under load. I think this is probably why the Evo typically handles better on tramac.
sarcasm?CloNeGTS said:
I honestly don't know that much about suspensions, but I have been trying to educate myself on just about everything I do come across. I suppose the suspension wouldn't change toe, but the car would change dramatically under load. I think this is probably why the Evo typically handles better on tramac.
No, no sarcasm, just asking. I know you mentioned this before and I asked before.
I sure don't know everything about suspensions, but I have a pretty good idea of how toe settings affect the feel of a car. All settings are rear, of couse.
no toe - just plain jane, nothing special
toe in - makes the car feel more stable under severe braking conditions.
toe out - makes the car feel loose under braking, but helps rotate the car
Just what I've been made to believe. Certainly not the bible on suspension setup. But I was pretty sure the toe wouldn't change. Even if the actions of the toe change are different than what I described, you can imagine that changing toe would make for an unstable car.
I sure don't know everything about suspensions, but I have a pretty good idea of how toe settings affect the feel of a car. All settings are rear, of couse.
no toe - just plain jane, nothing special
toe in - makes the car feel more stable under severe braking conditions.
toe out - makes the car feel loose under braking, but helps rotate the car
Just what I've been made to believe. Certainly not the bible on suspension setup. But I was pretty sure the toe wouldn't change. Even if the actions of the toe change are different than what I described, you can imagine that changing toe would make for an unstable car.
Alright, I just had a nice talk with a buddy of mine who has been an autox racing nut for years...and he knows his stuff when it comes to this.
Of course, a car that changes toe as the suspension travel in the front of the car is called bumpsteer, which is generally looked upon as a bad thing. He said it could also be designed in in some strange cases where you wanted to overcome another issue such as a severe weight bias. If it is designed in, it is considered a crutch to fix a different issue. Otherwise, it isn't usually a good thing.
Regarding toe adjustment.....all cars have front toe adjustment. A live rear axle car obviously doesn't have rear adjustment. Most 'sports cars' with independent rear suspension have toe adjustment of some kind.
Toe does affect the car as I described above.
A few examples he mentioned where a car does indeed change toe under braking where a few Formula Fords toe out under braking to aid turn in. Some Porsches toe in under power to make them more stable.
Just notes from our convo....hope that helps a little!
Of course, a car that changes toe as the suspension travel in the front of the car is called bumpsteer, which is generally looked upon as a bad thing. He said it could also be designed in in some strange cases where you wanted to overcome another issue such as a severe weight bias. If it is designed in, it is considered a crutch to fix a different issue. Otherwise, it isn't usually a good thing.
Regarding toe adjustment.....all cars have front toe adjustment. A live rear axle car obviously doesn't have rear adjustment. Most 'sports cars' with independent rear suspension have toe adjustment of some kind.
Toe does affect the car as I described above.
A few examples he mentioned where a car does indeed change toe under braking where a few Formula Fords toe out under braking to aid turn in. Some Porsches toe in under power to make them more stable.
Just notes from our convo....hope that helps a little!
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