KillerB header users - any heat damage?

Just had this thread pointed out to me, so lets see if I can address some of the stuff going on here...

The first question I have is, was the car tuned after installing the header? Installing our headers improves the engine's VE which WILL cause the EGTs to be higher than they should be, unless the tune/fueling has been properly compensated for. Not only can this cause the header (any stainless header) to embrittle, but there are other concerns with engine longevity running the car too lean.

What radiator are you running? Stock and most radiators are far enough away to not even need the fan shrouds to be trimmed, but on GDs trimming is pretty standard; trimming the plastic boss that would be used to hold auto tranny cooler line.

I don't know why the timing cover would have ANY signs of heat degradation on it? It's not that close. Our low mount turbo kit runs the GT35R turbine housing 1/4" away from the timing cover and there are no signs of thermal break down on it, although I do have a few pieces of gold foil on it. Pics?

On the Swain Tech coating, the binders will bubble through the ceramic and 'pill-up' giving a melting appearance. This is definitely NOT the ceramic melting away, and is considered normal. As mentioned you'd need to be over 3,000° to accomplish that. The Swain Tech coating can shed outer layers, but we've NEVER EVER seen headers (our or others), or a turbo housing flake off to bare metal. The coating thickness is generally over .015 thick, and if I remember correctly, 10 or so 'layers' are applied. Loosing a few layers will have no measurable effect whatsoever.

Wrap over the coating is NOT recommended for a few reasons. There is zero measurable benefit to the exhaust or underhood temps. It will drain your wallet and time though. It may also overheat the material, and it will definitely flake off MANY layers of the Swain Tech coating. The Swain Tech coating performs as well as wrap and better than any other coating process I am aware of. I would never use a coating like jet-hot as they generally work best with wrap or as a decorative coating, and that IMO defeats the purpose of having a coating in the first place.

Thermal management can be a tricky thing. Personally, I really don't like the venting/aero on the GRs in regards to the engine bay. There is not much flow through the engine bay at all and the small amount there is seems to put it all into the airbox area. We see temps 10-12° higher than ambient on the GR with our own air intake setup and we saw temps 20°+ higher on top of that with another companies intake. It's all due to the lack of airflow through the engine bay from what I can tell. Increasing power increases heat and it just compounds the effect.

The last Inconel header we quoted was just over $8,500. I would recommend getting a used WRC header as they can be had for cheaper. Although, they generally have dings, dents, designed for anti-lag around the 2.0 engine and have the turbo flange in a different location. If you've got experience welding Inconel this would likely be slightly cheaper alternative as they sell used in the $4-6,000 range depending on configuration and condition.

I'll pay closer attention to the thread now that I know it's here and if anyone has questions/concerns, please feel free to voice them.

KillerB thanks for responding! I will take photos of everything and post them tomorrow. You are right, the swaintech coating is beading up. Perhaps I used "dripping" inappropriately - I didn't know how else to describe it. It is NOT flaking off to bare metal or anything like that, but when I spoke to swaintech they said that over time the outer layers will shed.

I remember I posted this in the "which header is best thread" - the car was immediately datalogged and logs sent to the tuner after installing the header. The tune did not require any changes. The before/after datalogs were nearly identical. The wideband readings did not change at all. This may be partly because I requested a conservative tune to begin with, knowing the car was going to see hard track use, and the tuner said he kept it dialed back some compared to other users. I did not have an EGT gauge, but will with this new install.

The radiator is a mishimoto, so thicker than stock, putting the fan shroud closer to the header. The "melting" is minor, it isn't like the plastic is falling off or dripping, but it is obvious it was affected by the heat. I am not sure why the timing cover appears white. My friend who is installing the rotated turbo kit noticed all of the heat effects and said he has never seen that cover turn white from heat like that. Could something else cause it? This guy was a Subaru tech for years and does all of the engine builds around here and is very well respected.

Good to know about wrapping over the coating - I won't be doing that. I guess inconel is totally out of the question!

Agreed, GR engine bay presents some real issues for track day use. People seriously underestimate the severity of the problem. Not to toot my own horn, but the guys who are slower are not having issues. I spoke to Crawford and read every thread I could, and consensus is that you must ditch the hood scoop and vent the hood. All of the right things are happening now and I anticipate that the heat issues will be cured once and for all. In addition to the oil cooler, I am planning to run an intercooler sprayer and use ice water, hood vent behind the radiator, side hood vents, seal around the radiator/intercooler/oil cooler, 4" inlet into the fender sealed off from the engine bay with a "ram air" duct through the foglight, everything is coated in swaintech header/downpipe/uppipe/exhaust housing/even wastegate dump tube.

I was also planning to put a turbo blanket over the exhaust housing- would you advise against this since it is swaintech coated?

Stay tuned guys... I am pretty determined to make this car capable of full-tank-of-fuel track sessions!

No problem. Looking forward to seeing pics.

Were you going from another EL header to ours? I'd be VERY surprised if WOT wideband feedback was identical. It's just not something we've EVER seen. The variance is going to depend on if you're going from an OEM manifold, UEL header, EL Header. The feedback should have a larger to smaller delta, respectively. We even see feedback differences on customer that have gone from F-R to our header, although again, to a much lesser extent then coming from an UEL header or the OEM manifold. We always recommend street or dyno tuning when installing our headers to assure the tune is safe.

If your tune was REALLY fat in the fueling to begin with and moderate boost, it might still be in the 'safe' zone, but if the car will be tracked the safety margin will be reduced or worse. We've seen headers that have been run on unturned cars, they show it, and it makes me nervous. While 321 is a better suited material, like anything else it does have its limitations too. I hope I'm not coming off as fear mongering here, I just want your engine, header, and everything else to live a long and happy life.

The Mishi radiators are wide. Personally, I don't like super wide 3-row radiators on street cars, IMO they reduce ambient airflow too much and hold a lot of heat if you're in traffic. You're the first to report a fan shroud rubbing. I'd like to see pics if you don't mind. 1/4"-3/8" clearance is typically plenty.

That's what most people say when they hear Inconel pricing When I fisrt started talking the material suppliers they told me this... 321 is 2X the cost of 304, Inconel is 8X the cost of 321, and titanium is 10x the cost of Inconel. A generalization, but it gives a rough idea of the scale of these material costs.

You're definitely going in the right direction with your hood venting. You should see SIGNIFICANT results following that path.

With the turbo housing, same deal, blanket or wrap. On housings I much more prefer the coating as it has much better coverage over the entire piece. Doing both poses the same risk, breaking down the coating and premature cracking of the housing.

You are definitely on your way! Looking forward to seeing the car coming along

Fan shroud is not rubbing at all, not even close. Just close enough that the heat is affecting it. I thought my mishimoto was only 2-row..? But yes, much thicker than the stock rad. I was told the 3-row is not good for a car that sees street use or sits in traffic.

I went from the stock manifold to the KillerB. I am not sure what to say about the tuning. I have 91 and 100 oct maps and neither needed to be changed according to the tuner after the header install. As I said, there were no changes in the datalogs. I expected that the header would lean the car out some, but the wideband readings did not show this. The car will be getting a dyno tune from a new tuner with the new setup.

Header coating beading up:








Timing cover turning white. I tried to wipe this off with brake clean and to scrape it off with a flathead, but no dice. It has definitely turned white. I was hoping it was residue or something.





Fan shroud showing effects of heat: