June Automobile Mag Scan
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Very nice, Clone! Did you guys notice the "As-tested" prices? Is that extra $480 on the EVO the carbon-fiber wing?
nvm...I just checked and answered my own question. Thanks again Clone!
nvm...I just checked and answered my own question. Thanks again Clone!
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18 Posts
What a great time to be a car buyer! This makes it sooo much harder to wait, I want my subie! Thanks for taking the time to scan and post this to share with us Clone! I think this proves that the STi is really a better performing car... Please I am not knocking the EVO to defend our cherished car from being put in second place :wink: The only two places the EVO beats the STi, is in weight (barely) and in breaking ( less than a car length), but yet the STi is Smoother in everything it does compared the EVO. Personally I feel that the STi is a much more "refined" car that did not compromise one bit of performance to make it a pleasure to drive all the time...... 8) To each his/her own! I can not wait, I know the day I go to pick up my STi, I will be smiling so much it will hurt!Serious_Funk
G
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·Thanks a lot Rob!
The STi is the all round better performer of the two, but that understeer is still bothering me a bit.
The STi is the all round better performer of the two, but that understeer is still bothering me a bit.
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541 Posts
That would only help if we were actually hitting top speed in the 1/4. Most cars get nowhere near top speed. As it is, the fastest you could possibly go in the 1/4 mile is still waaaay under the limited top speed.O4STi said:
If you're talking about just straight-up top speed tests, then hell yes, remove that limiter!
It's late, and I am a bit cranky, so I wanted to vent a little bit here. My apologies in advance if anyone is offended.
I'd just like to point out that I think most of the car review guys are completely full of it. Here's an example: the bureau chief Michael Jordan going on about the Impreza WRC car, its performance on gravel, and comparisons to the STi just makes me ill. First, and I hope I am not destroying any dreams out there, there are almost *no* similarities between the WRC cars and what is being sold by Subaru. True, it is the same unibody, but that's it. Everything you can possibly imagine has been redesigned on those cars including the suspension, braking, steering, bodywork, overall geometry, transmission, diffs....if there are any similarities between the rally car and the street car, it is purely coincidental. To sum up, comparing these two cars is like saying that your Ford Taurus goes through turns like a NASCAR of the same badge.
Here's my second problem: there are a lot of people complaining that much of the (comparitively) unfavorable vehicle dynamics that have been reported are down to reviewers not understanding how to drive with the active diff (DCCD). As I mentioned before, most car reviewers are big fat idiots, but they know how to drive aggressively within the limits. If the car understeers under these circumstances, then this is bad. It doesn't really matter if you can get rid of understeer by throwing the car into the corner sideways, because who the hell is going to do this? Not only is it dangerous and stupid, but you'll be replacing your tyres every 5,000 miles. I mean, hell, I can get an Integra to tail out if I trail brake like mad into a corner. DCCD or not, this isn't a solution, it's just a sloppy workaround. The bottom line: the car is not set up like the JDM STi. Sadly.
Don't get me wrong: I am buying an STi, and I'll be happy with it. But just like the pre-facelift STi models in Japan and Europe, the STi is the civil, reasonable car. The Evo is the driver's car. I have no doubt now that the Evo is the quicker of the two given equally experienced drivers. I take solace in the fact that I'll be able to easily bump the power to about 350 bhp, and I'll play around with alignment and swaybars to dial out the understeer. But 1 mph difference in the slalom is a *massive* advantage (as reported by several magazines). You'll probably have to change the entire suspension to fix that issue (at the expense of ride quality, of course) and then what you've got is no longer an STi, but a custom car. You might as well buy the Evo and just concentrate on the motor.
Maybe I am jumping the gun, but I really think that SOA backed off a little bit here. They could have just given us the JDM setup, but it looks like we've got something much more like the US WRX deal. Sad.
-ch
I'd just like to point out that I think most of the car review guys are completely full of it. Here's an example: the bureau chief Michael Jordan going on about the Impreza WRC car, its performance on gravel, and comparisons to the STi just makes me ill. First, and I hope I am not destroying any dreams out there, there are almost *no* similarities between the WRC cars and what is being sold by Subaru. True, it is the same unibody, but that's it. Everything you can possibly imagine has been redesigned on those cars including the suspension, braking, steering, bodywork, overall geometry, transmission, diffs....if there are any similarities between the rally car and the street car, it is purely coincidental. To sum up, comparing these two cars is like saying that your Ford Taurus goes through turns like a NASCAR of the same badge.
Here's my second problem: there are a lot of people complaining that much of the (comparitively) unfavorable vehicle dynamics that have been reported are down to reviewers not understanding how to drive with the active diff (DCCD). As I mentioned before, most car reviewers are big fat idiots, but they know how to drive aggressively within the limits. If the car understeers under these circumstances, then this is bad. It doesn't really matter if you can get rid of understeer by throwing the car into the corner sideways, because who the hell is going to do this? Not only is it dangerous and stupid, but you'll be replacing your tyres every 5,000 miles. I mean, hell, I can get an Integra to tail out if I trail brake like mad into a corner. DCCD or not, this isn't a solution, it's just a sloppy workaround. The bottom line: the car is not set up like the JDM STi. Sadly.
Don't get me wrong: I am buying an STi, and I'll be happy with it. But just like the pre-facelift STi models in Japan and Europe, the STi is the civil, reasonable car. The Evo is the driver's car. I have no doubt now that the Evo is the quicker of the two given equally experienced drivers. I take solace in the fact that I'll be able to easily bump the power to about 350 bhp, and I'll play around with alignment and swaybars to dial out the understeer. But 1 mph difference in the slalom is a *massive* advantage (as reported by several magazines). You'll probably have to change the entire suspension to fix that issue (at the expense of ride quality, of course) and then what you've got is no longer an STi, but a custom car. You might as well buy the Evo and just concentrate on the motor.
Maybe I am jumping the gun, but I really think that SOA backed off a little bit here. They could have just given us the JDM setup, but it looks like we've got something much more like the US WRX deal. Sad.
-ch
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2,472 Posts
interesting comments, none of which i can dispute. like you, i'm glad to have an engine with "easily accessible" hp; e.g. relatively inexpensive, less stressful changes to the motor to get more hp. at least that's my perception.
aside from their dismissive attitude toward the dccd (justly, perhaps), the most salient point i've gleaned from the press reports, as you've mentioned, is the consistent difference in handling. they say/suggest the evo outhandles the sti, but they also say its a kidney killer. it seems a common tradeoff: handling for ride quality.
in the end, i think subaru did the "right"/rational thing for the *american* market, who i stereotype as fixated on straightline speed, less attention to handling, and intolerant to a harsh ride. subaru gave us power and great potential to increase it and sacrificed *a little* on handling (the suspension still kicks ass!) to give a better daily-driver ride. the latter also appeals to the older demographic that can afford a >$30k, 4-door, car.
okay, enough hypothesizing.
aside from their dismissive attitude toward the dccd (justly, perhaps), the most salient point i've gleaned from the press reports, as you've mentioned, is the consistent difference in handling. they say/suggest the evo outhandles the sti, but they also say its a kidney killer. it seems a common tradeoff: handling for ride quality.
in the end, i think subaru did the "right"/rational thing for the *american* market, who i stereotype as fixated on straightline speed, less attention to handling, and intolerant to a harsh ride. subaru gave us power and great potential to increase it and sacrificed *a little* on handling (the suspension still kicks ass!) to give a better daily-driver ride. the latter also appeals to the older demographic that can afford a >$30k, 4-door, car.
okay, enough hypothesizing.
Wide Wheels: how big is too big?
Thanks for the scan.
These are both great cars that lay down some amazing numbers. I am still satisfied with choosing the STi and can't wait to pick it up.
These comparisions between the STi and Evo remind me a bit of when the Supra and RX-7 were released 10 years ago. The RX-7 (Evo) was a better handler and steerer but harsh, where as the Supra (STi) was quicker in a straight-line, more refined, higher quality, and offered more ammenities.
Time will tell how these cars will hold up under spirited driving but I put my $ on Subaru. :lol:
Thanks for the scan.
These are both great cars that lay down some amazing numbers. I am still satisfied with choosing the STi and can't wait to pick it up.
These comparisions between the STi and Evo remind me a bit of when the Supra and RX-7 were released 10 years ago. The RX-7 (Evo) was a better handler and steerer but harsh, where as the Supra (STi) was quicker in a straight-line, more refined, higher quality, and offered more ammenities.
Time will tell how these cars will hold up under spirited driving but I put my $ on Subaru. :lol:
I believe that you may be a little ahed of yourself there....far beit for me to be an expert. On the topic of understeer, it has to be taken in the context of compared to the EVO. I have yet to see where they have compared the steering to any other car. i would like to see where the STi is compared to a WRX and see if it still understeers. In the following links, the suspension setup has been discussed centering in on the alignment:hyperion said:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=353993
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18433&highlight=alignment
It would seem that the alignment on the EVO is very aggresive compared to the STi. A simple alignment change can do wonders. Subaru is conservative, and the STi, good or bad, has shown this.
The tone of most of the discussions I have seen tend to imply that the supposed understeering nature of the STi is incurable, and many, not even having planted gludes behind the wheel. I may have gone off on a tangent, but lets not start whining about what the rags are saying. All this magazine racing is getting a little out of hand.
Poirot
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