E46 M3 is one of the best on the market right now and i know STi has around the same or maybe even better performance, but you will get everything in the M3 except the AWD part. M3 has the look, class, performance, and all the Luxury and comfort of a BMW. Well STi, M3, or Z06 are a bargain IMO.miked801 said:fyi:
there's two m3 issues, one with the e36 m3 (95-99) and one with the current (e46, 2001->) m3.
the e36 suffers from a bad combination of a sloppy tranny and an engine that doesnt take well to being over-revved. btw i think it's fair to say that no matter how bulletproof your engine is, you're gonna throw a rod / suck a valve / blow it up if you drop from 4K rpm in 4th to first gear.
the current m3 has a possibly similar issue with catastrphic failures. nobody really knows what's causing them, and some of them are on smg-equipped cars, which would seem to rule out over-revs.
just to add to the m3 discussion- the e46 m3 is my dream car. short of a 348 / f355 / f360 i would take this car over any other right now. but the fact of the matter is that a *used* m3 with smg is still $50K+, will only *match* the STi's performance (at least in a straight line), and i would speculate it's far less upgradeable than the STi. plus it's rwd, and i need something for the winter, which would mean buying an old impreza or loyale for ~$4K as well. i love the m3. i respect the z06 and other c5's. i think p-cars are awesome. but i just can't justify the price.
Calm down.....I was using those cars as a comparison of intangibles as thought of by the average car buyer. Intangibles don't make much sense....kinda like trying to explain why one plastic interior is better than another...although they are both plastic. (But there you have it) As I stated :MKIVSupra said:Poirot, what are you talking about? Comparing a STi now to an M3 and then a 911??? If they were the same price what would you choose??? That makes no sense. They are no where near the same price and if they were those cars would be nothing like what they are now. Now if the STi was $50k or $120k then maybe your points would make more sense. BTW, what was the big issue they had with the M3s? Something bad enough to cause BMW to add on some extended warranty because of the problems everyone was having. Yeah that's quality all right. :roll: No offense, I understand what you mean but I just hate when people say "it's just a Subaru" as if they build crap.
We, on this board, are not the average car buyer.Poirot said:I am not saying that Subaru is not a well built car, but you can't always put a price tag on the intangibles. Like comparing the STi to a 911 turbo AWD. If they were the same price and preformance, which would you choose...thats the intangible difference.
I know what you said and I am calmed down more now. My point is if the 911 cost the same as the STi it will not have the intangibles it does now. A $120k car is not going to be anywhere near the same as a $35k car no matter how you compare it. It's better to just leave it at what everyone else is saying and keep the prices in the same ballpark... around $35k give or take. When cars like the M3 and up get thrown in against an STi I don't know how people can compare them. Subaru must have done something right I guess if people can actually compare the STi to some of those cars.Poirot said:Calm down.....I was using those cars as a comparison of intangibles as thought of by the average car buyer. Intangibles don't make much sense....kinda like trying to explain why one plastic interior is better than another...although they are both plastic. (But there you have it) As I stated :
Poirot said:I am not saying that Subaru is not a well built car, but you can't always put a price tag on the intangibles. Like comparing the STi to a 911 turbo AWD. If they were the same price and preformance, which would you choose...thats the intangible difference.
actually more 700. (you probably accidently added an extra zero). but i *doubt* the loyalty rate is 450 users. (JJ??) for example, look at the N of the polls recently. as of today, only 32 have responded to the body/wheel color poll and the thing has been out for a week or more. i haven't seen a poll as yet with >100 votes. so perhaps the 450 number is more like 200, or lower. <shrug>miked801 said:and this site has just over 6000 users, of which prbably 450 visit actively....
i gotta confess, i signed up a long time ago but didn't make my first post until the morning after the sti was announed (1/7/2003). i'm sure the forums will go insane once the car is here. (geez, will that ever happen? i feel like an 8year old does one week before christmas... )91TB78 said:Perhaps they are waiting until the car is bought..