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Discussion Starter #1
Not to poop on everyones party hat but...

Is the same thing going to happen w/ the STI that happened to the PT Cruiser when it came out?

Let's review-
UPON RELEASE: Limited production, niche market, big hype, deposit waiting lines, MSRP (or more) paid...

JUMP AHEAD 12-18 MONTHS : Niche market satisfied, sales drop, dealers selling at invoice (rebates galore), more than enough for everyone...

SUMMARY: all those initial buyers wasted thousands of dollars (in high purchase price) just to have the car a year or so before everyone else.

I'm as excited as everyone else; I'm on a waiting list and trying to decide (before my number is called) if this is really the car I want to buy right now (at only $500 below MSRP :x, when I've never paid more than Invoice + $500 for a car)

Are we making the same monetary mistake? Is it worth the extra $2000-3000 to have one before the masses? Or is this case different?
 

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I see you're playing devil's advocate to an extent! I must say, though, that I feel this case is DEFINITELY diff't. If you look at comparable autos available presently it's a VERY thin market. I was looking for something with AWD, manual transmission, and at least 225hp. From the searches I did I was limited to an Audi S4, BMW 330xi, or a WRX. (the Evo wasn't even considered). The differences in pricing (WRX aside) is at least 15k, if not north of 20. I've been hearing there's a trend towards AWD for most automakers goiing forward, which means that in a year or two we may very well have comparably powered AWD sticks available....but for the immediately forseeable future this car is in a class by itself. I think (my opinion) the PT Cruiser was more of a niche market....aside from the appearance the car doesn't really stand out in any particular way. This may be a somewhat biased view, as I've had a deposit down since Jan.'03 and can't wait for my STi....just my .02
 

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I think of it this way also.., the first person that I heard say that they liked the PT was my 50 year old father. The PT strikes a much older crowd that has a memory of their parents autos of the 50's and 60's. That's the value in the appearance of a PT and that's all it has. It is nothing other than a NEON with a different hat. In fact, until the torbu was offered, they couldn't sell them! The resale values sucked bad and I had people trading them in like there was no tomorrow. Just my $.02.
:)
 

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Comparing the STi to the PT is almost blasphemous!! :)

First, limited production to the big three means less than a couple hundred thousand. Ford calls the T-Bird limited production, but I think they have produced around 40K of them. Corvette's are considered limited production by some at 40K+ per year.

The STi is the "halo" car of the Subaru line. It's main job in life is to sell more WRX's, Forester Turbo's, and other "performance" subies. Subaru has stated that they will keep it very limited in production and as the "halo" car of the line.

I don't think the same can be said for the PT. Daimler-Chrysler's "halo" car is really the Viper (when you subtract out the Benz AMG's)- good luck getting one of those at invoice. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
JJ said:
Comparing the STi to the PT is almost blasphemous!! :)
I think everyone has missed my point here... I'm not comparing the STI to the PT (by any means). I'm comparing the situations.

The STI is in a class (nearly) all it's own (w/ the EVO); but if we wait a year will we not be able to buy the same STI (then in full-blown production) at a considerably better price than if we get it now (during limited production). Will production quantities not increase over the year and, as the initial excitment wears off, rebates galore be offered?

Will we not see people paying $28K for the same STI we paid $31K for? Basically, are we wasting thousands just to have the first STIs, instead of waiting until spring next year?

Or do you think will there still be waiting lines, and limited quantities?

P.S.
Has everyone heard Motor Week will be doing a review on the STI this week.
 

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It's worth it for me for many reasons, here's a few. Say I've paided $3k more than waiting a year. That extra $3k, financed only adds about $63 a month to the loan. For the $63 I get to - trounce all over most cars, take it to several track days, enjoy sitting in it just for fun, laugh at all the odd stares it's looks will get, say I have one, enjoy the commute to & from work, and make friends with all those waiting to buy theirs NEXT YEAR! Yes! It's worth it, for me.
 

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I for one am a very impatient person, $3000 does not make a difference to me if it means I get it now as opposed to next year. If say it was $5-10k then I might reconsider. $3000 over 5 years is not that much of a difference, i just can't go out an eat that one extra day a month. Trust me when you start seeing them on the rode/get one yourself, you wont care about how much you paid.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
TO60IN6 said:
I have one, enjoy the commute to & from work, and make friends with all those waiting to buy theirs NEXT YEAR! Yes! It's worth it, for me.
I must I have the same view point, or I wouldn't be on a waiting list myself. That glourious feeling of driving something special, unique, untouchable 8) (if only for a while) makes it worth it (even though my scenario is inevitable). :-?

I guess I just wanted to know there were others out there w/ the same anit-financially-sound decision making process as I; I feel just as stupid, but surrounded w/ good company. :wink:
 

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Re: Factory Suspension???

I do feel the price will drop later. First, a better example would have been the S2000, not PT. At first, they were more than MSRP, then MSRP, and now you can get them easily at invoice (at least in Chicago). But the price stayed up for awile because it really had no competition and it was supposed to be limited production. But now, with cars like the 350Z, upcoming RX8, Evo, STi, etc, it can be had for invoice.

Now the STi will have it's big initial demand for those that absolutely must have it first. But remember, it already has the Evo for competition. And except for the initial wave for Subbie fans, a lot of people have read the major magazines (Automobile, MT, C&D, R&T) which all picked the cheaper Evo as the better. And Evos are not commanding over MSRP. Some dealers still have markups, but if you read over on EvolutionM.net, almost everyone has gotten them for MSRP or less already. And also, Mitsu is making limited number of them this year, but I remember reading that they said that they don't want it to be limited production. They will later make as many as they can sell later. And I believe Subaru will do the same, just like they did with the WRX. Honda said they would only make a limited ~5000/year for 2 year run on the S2000. And some people justified spending way over MSRP because of this only to find that the S2000 is now in it's fifth year and they sold ~15k cars/year. So it's inevitable that the STi's price will come down. I will wait. I also have not ever paid more than $500 over invoice on any car ever either.
 

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I'm one of those people who feel that life is too short. Why postpone fun? To me, the added fun of having the car sooner is worth the extra $2k and change. Plus, $2k is not a lot of money. Just my $.02
 

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Then you have the point that Subaru doesn't do rebates at all. There won't be any "Free Money" to save later because SOA won't be passing it out. The least you'll be buying one for a year from now is $29,995. $1500 off the price MAX. You get one of the Fastest cars on the road and a decent price! :)
 

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well im turning 52 this year ,i own a 01 s-2000 , got it at less than msrp,only because the dealer is my freind, my sti will be here in two weeks ,and i'm paying msrp ,fair or not {and i know the dealer personally} I've been waiting for this car since 02 when the first hint of the sti may come , theres 13 guys on the list at the dealership behind me ,4 will be in the first allocation , more in july and august, i suppose i could wait till the price comes down in a year or two but i wont,I know 1 guy on the list who is tradeing down from his beamer to the sti, so the hype is there , hope we are not dissapointed, :wink:
 

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we wont live forever

I think the STi will eventually take up a position of one of the best bang for the buck sports cars ever made, toppling the bar set by cars such as the Camaro SS and the like. Once America embraces the true possibilities of these new super cars....it will be a symbol the likes of which will be immitated by many in the future.
 

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CloNeGTS said:
I think the STi will eventually take up a position of one of the best bang for the buck sports cars ever made, toppling the bar set by cars such as the Camaro SS and the like.
Camaro SS is one bang i wouldn't pay a buck for! :lol:
 

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I was referring to the so-called "Bang for the Buck" tests that have been done in the past that usually found the Camaro Z28 or SS as the winner.

That certainly isn't my endorsement of the cars....don't get me wrong!
 

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CloNeGTS said:
I was referring to the so-called "Bang for the Buck" tests that have been done in the past that usually found the Camaro Z28 or SS as the winner.

That certainly isn't my endorsement of the cars....don't get me wrong!
LOL! I know dude. I was just making a play on words.
"Camaro SS....I wouldn't buy that for a dollar!" :lol:
 
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