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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Not sure if this has been posted before:


CloverTurbo


Max potential of 380 engine horsepower is quite a good upgrade as a replacement turbo.
 

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The IHI one is OK but I like the modified VF20g based on vf48 from Turbo parts Canada a lot better...here's the link to dyno


full disclosure: I have no affiliation with either Neetronics or TPC, I am just planning to get this vf20G in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The IHI one is OK but I like the modified VF20g based on vf48 from Turbo parts Canada a lot better...here's the link to dyno


full disclosure: I have no affiliation with either Neetronics or TPC, I am just planning to get this vf20G in the future.
Yeah that turbo looks impressive. Power everywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good find! So IHI modifies their standard VF48 with a ~3-4% larger compressor wheel.
In many ways, this modified version of VF48 by IHI reminded me of Tomei/IHI T380B twinscroll (380 for 380hp). Great price too from Flatirontuning.com.

The figure is also spot on; 10% gain. The VF48, based on what I know, realistically made 350hp max. So 10% improvement is right around 380hp range.

And to be released by IHI is the modified VF49 twinscroll turbo.That should be interesting to compare against the T380B.
 

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I'd like to see someone test ATP's stock location Gen 2 GTX2867R. It's one of the more expensive bolt-on/drop-in options.. but has modern-ish turbo technology, ball bearing CHRA & billet compressor wheel with Garrett's reliability. But then again I'm a fan of over-engineered products.


There were a few dyno plots floating around of the Gen1 version that showed promising results for a street car. The Gen2 should be even more capable.. especially on dual AVCS setups.

'06 STI (EJ257 w/ Single AVCS) on pump gas w/ KillerB ELH:
58788


Owner comments:
Peak HP at RPM: [email protected]
Peak Torque at RPM: [email protected]
Target Boost: 18 psi (17.5psi at 3800 and rises to about 18.5psi at redline)
Fuel: 94 oct

The goal was 300lb-ft of torque from as early as possible to be kept flat as high as possible. I am very happy to be able to keep torque up at redline with the stock single avcs/cams not allowing to play with the exhaust overlap up top.

Some driving impressions are that this car is never out of boost once the throttle is pressed. Although on the dyno it appears to spool later the response on the road is much quicker than the vf39 and there is less lag between shifts. The pull to redline is great due to torque staying flat almost all the way.

The way it sits I could easily increase boost and make 400wtq at 3500rpm, but that would be rather pointless. We intentionally are keeping wtq at around 300lb-ft so that power does not fall off. 300wtq is more than plenty and is perfectly safe in a stock motor, clutch, cooling system etc... I get the same hit of a stg2 car but I get that rate of acceleration all the way to almost 7000rpm. If I chose to make more torque down low I would only end up with a falling torque curve and make the same 365whp at 7000 (actually less because the turbo would be saturated and winding down at that point).
Another '06 STI with a similar setup, but on E85:
58789

Owner comments:
Peak HP at RPM: [email protected] (~360whp @ 19ish psi on 93 oct)
Peak Torque at RPM: [email protected]
Target Boost: 24 psi tapering to 21psi
Fuel: e85
Trap Speed: 11.x @ 126.8 mph

The transient response is just silly, I could be in 6th gear at 2500 rpms hit the gas and instantly be making positive boost pressure.

Upping the boost to 30 psi wouldn't really do much except add low end tq. The boost taper is just inherent in turbos this size. And trying to force the boost up usually just ends up increasing the pressure (and temp) but not the airflow.
This setup reaches peak torque a bit later, however, is making over 300 wtq by 3,200 rpm. That's comparable low-end performance to my twin scroll FA20DIT while also carrying 420+ whp to redline. I'd love to see how a Gen2 performs.
 

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The IHI one is OK but I like the modified VF20g based on vf48 from Turbo parts Canada a lot better...here's the link to dyno


full disclosure: I have no affiliation with either Neetronics or TPC, I am just planning to get this vf20G in the future.
The vf20g is very impressive from what I've seen and read. It's essentially a vf48 but on steroids. Spools quicker and holds power longer. Been interested to see and hear more results.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'd like to see someone test ATP's stock location Gen 2 GTX2867R. It's one of the more expensive bolt-on/drop-in options.. but has modern-ish turbo technology, ball bearing CHRA & billet compressor wheel with Garrett's reliability. But then again I'm a fan of over-engineered products.


There were a few dyno plots floating around of the Gen1 version that showed promising results for a street car. The Gen2 should be even more capable.. especially on dual AVCS setups.

'06 STI (EJ257 w/ Single AVCS) on pump gas w/ KillerB ELH:
View attachment 58788

Owner comments:


Another '06 STI with a similar setup, but on E85:
View attachment 58789
Owner comments:


This setup reaches peak torque a bit later, however, is making over 300 wtq by 3,200 rpm. That's comparable low-end performance to my twin scroll FA20DIT while also carrying 420+ whp to redline. I'd love to see how a Gen2 performs.
Impressive!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The vf20g is very impressive from what I've seen and read. It's essentially a vf48 but on steroids. Spools quicker and holds power longer. Been interested to see and hear more results.
yeah i’ve been waiting for more user review of this turbo too.
 

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The VF20G results look too good to be true. I haven't been able to find any user reviews beyond Neetronics' testing and what was mentioned in TPC's VF20G video.

A couple things that I notice from the VF48 vs VF20G dyno comparison:
  • The VF48 was only tuned to ~18 psi whereas the VF20G was above 20 psi. However, the VF20G certainly holds boost better up top than the VF48. There is no arguing that.
  • The VF48 baseline numbers are quite low given the mods. The numbers are more in line with a stage 1 tune. That setup would typically be in the 300+ whp range.
58804


 

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Edit: Turbo Parts Canada updated their website shortly after I posted. They adjusted the pricing (cheaper) and unfortunately don't offer a ball bearing upgrade for this turbo.

But with the VF20G being priced at $1,299 USD (w/ turbine inlet porting, turbine wheel clipping and IWG flapper & actuator upgrade). They offer Cerakote ceramic coating on the turbine housing for an extra $100.

So it's ~$700 cheaper than ATP's Gen2 GTX2867R. The wheel sizes are similar between the two, but obviously the GTX has a newer, more efficient design. And of course the GTX is ball bearing whereas the VF20G is journal bearing.

VF20G
Compressor (Billet 6+6 blade wheel) - OEM 2.4" compressor inlet
  • Exducer: 68mm
  • Inducer: 52mm
Turbine (clipped OEM 11 blade wheel)
  • Inducer: 53mm
  • Exducer: 48mm? (not sure if this changes w/ clipping)
GTX2867R Gen 2
Compressor (Billet 8 blade wheel) - 3" compressor inlet
  • Exducer: 67mm
  • Inducer: 50mm
Turbine (9 blade wheel)
  • Inducer: 54mm
  • Exducer: 47mm
Both turbos should be capable of 350+ whp on pump gas & 400+ whp on E85. i would expect the GTX2867R to likely have better spool, transient response, and the ability to make a bit more power. Both are "restricted" to an extent by the OEM turbine housing and IWG design.

The appealing thing about the VF20G for us Californians is that it utilizes the OEM compressor housing which can help you fly under the radar come smog/CARB inspection time.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, there are plenty of options out there and all pretty good.

I think the VF48 'HF' offers great OEM replacement as according to flatirons tuning it does not require tuning (I assume running on stock standard tune).
 

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The VF20G results look too good to be true. I haven't been able to find any user reviews beyond Neetronics' testing and what was mentioned in TPC's VF20G video.

A couple things that I notice from the VF48 vs VF20G dyno comparison:
  • The VF48 was only tuned to ~18 psi whereas the VF20G was above 20 psi. However, the VF20G certainly holds boost better up top than the VF48. There is no arguing that.
  • The VF48 baseline numbers are quite low given the mods. The numbers are more in line with a stage 1 tune. That setup would typically be in the 300+ whp range.
View attachment 58804

I've been tuned on the neetronics dyno. That dyno reads low. I was tuned on a dynapack afterwards. Typically a stg2+ car makes ~300whp/310wtq on that dyno. Afterwards on a dynapack I made 330whp/350whp. That being said 350/380 on neetronics for a stock-ish turbo is impressive.
 

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I've been tuned on the neetronics dyno. That dyno reads low. I was tuned on a dynapack afterwards. Typically a stg2+ car makes ~300whp/310wtq on that dyno. Afterwards on a dynapack I made 330whp/350whp. That being said 350/380 on neetronics for a stock-ish turbo is impressive.
Good to hear. That's more in line with what I expected to see. The before dyno in this comparison was stage 2+ with ELH, TGV deletes, upgraded fuel system, etc. and it only made 269 whp. That's VERY low.

The after numbers with the VF20G are impressive regardless.. I just think the before dyno numbers are a little suspect. You can see that the VF48 before run was tuned more conservatively at 2-3 psi less and also a richer AFR. This will make the VF20G appear to have larger gains. The gains are likely closer to ~40-50whp rather than the 80whp shown. Still impressive nonetheless, especially if it still spools as fast as (or faster) than the OEM VF48 while carrying boost further up top. Best of both worlds.

I'm tempted to try it. Would just like to see at least one person with first-hand experience before spending that much.
 

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It looks like IHI Turbo Performance is also planning to release a modified version of the twin scroll VF49 this year.

58881
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It looks like IHI Turbo Performance is also planning to release a modified version of the twin scroll VF49 this year.

View attachment 58881
Yes there will be a high flow version of VF49 but it makes me wonder what will be the difference between that and the IHI/Tomei T380B. Like the high flow VF48, the IHI/Tomei T380B is also a high flow version of the VF49 with maximum power potential of 380 engine hp.
 

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Discussion Starter #18


A turbo developed jointly with IHI Group's CloverTurbo®, which uses ball bearings on the shaft bearings to enjoy the response and torque from low speeds typical of EJ.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The Tomei unit is too expensive for sure.

IHI could offer it at similar price to their high flow VF48 - which makes it a nice replacement unit.

But if higher performance is in mind, with the many choices we know today, one could opt for 1.5XTR TS or the STX 67R ball bearing TS turbo or the Owen Development / Chevron Grp. A TS turbo (Although this one could be very expensive).
 
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