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So, if I I'm getting this right, my way of testing, by running up the car on the dyno and looking for leaks with everything connected and the car seeing 20psi oc boost is wrong, but your way of jerry rigging in a compressor line is right.

No wonder all the valves you tested leaked.

How about testing it on the car and under load, the way the BOV will be working when connected to car.

This is how to test for leaks > GFB Smoke Test - YouTube

I especially like the quick math part.

This GFB Respons leaking subject is so old and been disproved so many times, I find it strange that it still gets brought up.
They leaked because they were not good at being BOV/BPV's. Other manfacturers of the countless I've tested over the years seem to get it right. Funny thing... Replacing the GFB valves with better valves fixed the problems I experienced in tuning many cars, leading me to test them in the first place. Odd...

BTW, that video was in response to me talking with them directly about how their valves leaking. I know how to test valves and intake tracts as I've been doing it a long time. Additionally, if a valve can't even hold pressure or vacuum on the reference port by itself, it's not a good valve. That's not even mentioning the fact that it can allow a post-MAF vacuum leak through the valve itself or the lack of control from a non-well regulated reference port allowing for poor control of the valve in the first place.

It's very real. I especially like the real-world experience.

BTW, using a compressor to put the intake tract under boost is a proper way to test leaks. Don't be thick or allow someone else to fool you into it not being a proper way to do it.
 

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They leaked because they were not good at being BOV/BPV's. Other manfacturers of the countless I've tested over the years seem to get it right. Funny thing... Replacing the GFB valves with better valves fixed the problems I experienced in tuning many cars, leading me to test them in the first place. Odd...

BTW, that video was in response to me talking with them directly about how their valves leaking. I know how to test valves and intake tracts as I've been doing it a long time. Additionally, if a valve can't even hold pressure or vacuum on the reference port by itself, it's not a good valve. That's not even mentioning the fact that it can allow a post-MAF vacuum leak through the valve itself or the lack of control from a non-well regulated reference port allowing for poor control of the valve in the first place.

It's very real. I especially like the real-world experience.

BTW, using a compressor to put the intake tract under boost is a proper way to test leaks. Don't be thick or allow someone else to fool you into it not being a proper way to do it.
"Don't be thick", I'm not, I taking everything you say with a grain of salt.

You can back your statements all you like and sprout on about your testing and tuning, what shop do you work for anyway?

Strangley everyone I know who has one on their car has necer had any issue with tuning, unlike you.

Maybe it's the flawed way you do things, and now after so many years of saying every GFB valve you tested leaked, you are in so deep that you need to keep backing your style of testing and results, regardless.
 

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"Don't be thick", I'm not, I taking everything you say with a grain of salt.
Take it how you want, it doesn't change the way physics work.

You can back your statements all you like and sprout on about your testing and tuning, what shop do you work for anyway?
So I can back statements, but you're admitting to being closed minded that you won't try to understand it?

What does a shop have to do with it? I hate shops and dealing with those types is why I learned to do this stuff on my own... And do it (tuning) for customers around the country who also have a distaste for shops.

Strangley everyone I know who has one on their car has necer had any issue with tuning, unlike you.
I've also seen countless people claim X tuner is the best (in the world, even), but their modified car is slower and has a high potential to blow up. That was a fun mess to clean up.

How many of those people actually know what they're looking for? Honestly?


Maybe it's the flawed way you do things, and now after so many years of saying every GFB valve you tested leaked, you are in so deep that you need to keep backing your style of testing and results, regardless.
Apparently I misjudged you earlier in thinking you knew what you were doing. My bad.


Don't be a BnB... Understand that you are learning something new here. I've got nothing to gain here. A leak is a leak and you can understand that or listen to the guys selling you parts.
 

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Take it how you want, it doesn't change the way physics work.



So I can back statements, but you're admitting to being closed minded that you won't try to understand it?

What does a shop have to do with it? I hate shops and dealing with those types is why I learned to do this stuff on my own... And do it (tuning) for customers around the country who also have a distaste for shops.



I've also seen countless people claim X tuner is the best (in the world, even), but their modified car is slower and has a high potential to blow up. That was a fun mess to clean up.

How many of those people actually know what they're looking for? Honestly?




Apparently I misjudged you earlier in thinking you knew what you were doing. My bad.


Don't be a BnB... Understand that you are learning something new here. I've got nothing to gain here. A leak is a leak and you can understand that or listen to the guys selling you parts.
Well I disagree, I have based my claims on first hand testing, not your way of testing obviously, but as I have seen the same results on multiple platforms I stand by my statements.

My car on the dyno at 20psi doesn't leak.

I never talked about which tuner to use, I stated that everyone I know who has one has never had a issue, apart from some slight overfueling between shifts when fully VTA, which has never caused me a issue in all the years I have played with forced induction by the way, no burnt valves, no exploding exhausts or destroyed catalytic converters, hell, I get bigger flames

As for your comment about physics and the GFB BOV, I would love for you to describe how the thing actually works and your reasoning that it is flawed, hit me with your knowledge and the reasoning why it's only the ones I know of don't have this issue and are not complying with the laws of your physics.

I like shops in the fact that you can track down a good one with a good tuner with years of experience in research and development in motorsport, not someone who tunes their own car, I pay for a professional with all the required equipment needed for the task.

Don't be BnB, LOL, nice come back there mate.
 

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Well I disagree, I have based my claims on first hand testing, not your way of testing obviously, but as I have seen the same results on multiple platforms I stand by my statements.

My car on the dyno at 20psi doesn't leak.
You've already stated you get a small leak that gets recycled. That alone makes your turbo work harder for said boost. Additionally, some of the leaks I have found will be on the outlet itself, which can show a leak both ways... meaning, it can now be a vacuum leak, post MAF, so you don't really know where that air is going. The reference port and it's chamber does not create a good seal. It literally cannot hold static boost of vacuum on its own. This is another leak which will also aid in a lesser controlled piston movement anyway.

And with stated said small leak... it shouldn't at all. It's a pretty dumb device and there is not reason it should leak. At. All.

I never talked about which tuner to use,
My response was an analogy...


I stated that everyone I know who has one has never had a issue,
Which I followed with:

yamahaSHO said:
How many of those people actually know what they're looking for? Honestly?

apart from some slight overfueling between shifts when fully VTA, which has never caused me a issue in all the years I have played with forced induction by the way, no burnt valves, no exploding exhausts or destroyed catalytic converters, hell, I get bigger flames
Actually, you never said that prior, but that's just the function of venting metered air. I don't particularly care for that and not why I many of us do not recommend the GFB valves.

As for your comment about physics and the GFB BOV, I would love for you to describe how the thing actually works and your reasoning that it is flawed, hit me with your knowledge and the reasoning why it's only the ones I know of don't have this issue and are not complying with the laws of your physics.
It leaks and not just in one place. I've actually been quite clear several times... Maybe it's my American accent that is throwing you off...

I like shops in the fact that you can track down a good one with a good tuner with years of experience in research and development in motorsport, not someone who tunes their own car, I pay for a professional with all the required equipment needed for the task.
I did that route when I was first learning cars... Eventually, when you realize they're making a living off it, you're just a number to many of them. People pay me as a professional too, but it's not my primary or my secondary job. This is how many of us work and does very, very well (and how all the "pros" get their start anyway). If you do this stuff enough (build, tune, & race cars), you'll figure out who knows their shit and many times, it's the guy that doesn't do anything of the sorts as a primary income.

Don't be BnB, LOL, nice come back there mate.
It wasn't a "come back". I'm being serious. Don't be thick like BnB and I'm not your "mate".



It's simple. There are better options that do said job more effectively. I've had a GFB valve and took the hit, sold it, and spent an additional sum for a better valve. If you stick with it because it's local to you or that you just like it, that's fine, but it doesn't do the best job at what it's designed to do.
 

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You've already stated you get a small leak that gets recycled. That alone makes your turbo work harder for said boost. Additionally, some of the leaks I have found will be on the outlet itself, which can show a leak both ways... meaning, it can now be a vacuum leak, post MAF, so you don't really know where that air is going. The reference port and it's chamber does not create a good seal. It literally cannot hold static boost of vacuum on its own. This is another leak which will also aid in a lesser controlled piston movement anyway.

And with stated said small leak... it shouldn't at all. It's a pretty dumb device and there is not reason it should leak. At. All.



My response was an analogy...




Which I followed with:






Actually, you never said that prior, but that's just the function of venting metered air. I don't particularly care for that and not why I many of us do not recommend the GFB valves.



It leaks and not just in one place. I've actually been quite clear several times... Maybe it's my American accent that is throwing you off...



I did that route when I was first learning cars... Eventually, when you realize they're making a living off it, you're just a number to many of them. People pay me as a professional too, but it's not my primary or my secondary job. This is how many of us work and does very, very well (and how all the "pros" get their start anyway). If you do this stuff enough (build, tune, & race cars), you'll figure out who knows their shit and many times, it's the guy that doesn't do anything of the sorts as a primary income.



It wasn't a "come back". I'm being serious. Don't be thick like BnB and I'm not your "mate".



It's simple. There are better options that do said job more effectively. I've had a GFB valve and took the hit, sold it, and spent an additional sum for a better valve. If you stick with it because it's local to you or that you just like it, that's fine, but it doesn't do the best job at what it's designed to do.
I will stick with it because it works and doesn't leak if you set it up and test for leaks correctly.

Are you going to post up some footage of "your way" for testing for leaks, and the reason why the valve design is flawed, or are you going to just keep repeating what you have already said.

Please prove me wrong.

Enjoy your hobby mate, I'm sure there are people out there that will pay you cash for your work mate, not everybody is as picky as me.

Anyway, this have given the OP an intro into asking questions about BOV's and the different opinions that unsue.

As for you mate, enjoy, I will.
 

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I will stick with it because it works and doesn't leak if you set it up and test for leaks correctly.
Correctly? You thought the only correct way to do a boost leak test was on a dyno. I bet if you put a Mityvac hand pump on the reference port, it won't hold pressure.


Are you going to post up some footage of "your way" for testing for leaks, and the reason why the valve design is flawed, or are you going to just keep repeating what you have already said.

Please prove me wrong.
You know, if you read with some understanding, it will be easy to see what I've already explained, but I guess I'll go further. "It is wrong because it leaks." Even from the reference port, the adjustable top is not even sealed with an O-ring, just machined metal. This will lead to less than ideal control via the diaphragm, in addition to leaking metered air. As you will see in the video, and what has been explained at least once, it leaks out the discharge which does a few things... Can leak metered air as well as be a vacuum leak for unmetered air to enter post-MAF, and coupled with the noted leaking reference port/chamber, potentially allow the valve to open recycling heated air, while making turbo work hard to reach a boost level... while also making the air even hotter.


It's not "my way"... It's a VERY common practice. There is even a whole damn thread on NASIOC about boost testing. https://www.google.com/search?q=boost+leak+test+adapter&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSi5yIweDYAhVDzmMKHfLFBCUQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1920&bih=949


Enjoy your hobby mate, I'm sure there are people out there that will pay you cash for your work mate, not everybody is as picky as me.

Anyway, this have given the OP an intro into asking questions about BOV's and the different opinions that unsue.

As for you mate, enjoy, I will.
Proper leak testing is not an opinion. If you truly want to find leaks, you'll end up going with a boost leak tester and applying constant pressure ramping up to and past your target pressure and methodically look for leaks. It helps dialing in a tune and finding potential issues much easier as they arise.
 

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Correctly? You thought the only correct way to do a boost leak test was on a dyno. I bet if you put a Mityvac hand pump on the reference port, it won't hold pressure.




You know, if you read with some understanding, it will be easy to see what I've already explained, but I guess I'll go further. "It is wrong because it leaks." Even from the reference port, the adjustable top is not even sealed with an O-ring, just machined metal. This will lead to less than ideal control via the diaphragm, in addition to leaking metered air. As you will see in the video, and what has been explained at least once, it leaks out the discharge which does a few things... Can leak metered air as well as be a vacuum leak for unmetered air to enter post-MAF, and coupled with the noted leaking reference port/chamber, potentially allow the valve to open recycling heated air, while making turbo work hard to reach a boost level... while also making the air even hotter.

movie

It's not "my way"... It's a VERY common practice. There is even a whole damn thread on NASIOC about boost testing. boost leak test adapter - Google Search




Proper leak testing is not an opinion. If you truly want to find leaks, you'll end up going with a boost leak tester and applying constant pressure ramping up to and past your target pressure and methodically look for leaks. It helps dialing in a tune and finding potential issues much easier as they arise.
I never said a leak test isn't needed, just that when testing a BOV there are certain parameters that must be meet.

And still, when set up correctly and tested on a dyno running 20 psi they don't leak more than 1ml a second through the vta port, doesn't even register as a drop in psi.

Leaking 1ml/s of metered air equates to nothing when the engine is gulping air at 20psi.

Try it for yourself.

Better yet, anyone with one run it up on a dyno and test it.

It takes about 5 seconds to spay some bubbles.
 

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I never said a leak test isn't needed, just that when testing a BOV there are certain parameters that must be meet.
I did not say you said that. What I did say is that you thought there was only one way and they only way to test these things in the beginning, which is why my initial post opened with, "incorrect".

And still, when set up correctly and tested on a dyno running 20 psi they don't leak more than 1ml a second through the vta port, doesn't even register as a drop in psi.

Leaking 1ml/s of metered air equates to nothing when the engine is gulping air at 20psi.

Try it for yourself.

Better yet, anyone with one run it up on a dyno and test it.

It takes about 5 seconds to spay some bubbles.


I've already explained the multiple points at where these leaks are not desirable and you still do not seem to get it. This is exactly why I compared you to BnB... I am talking to sense, to a wall. Where are you coming up with 1ml/s? How have you tested this? And a leak at a control valve does more than just leak metered air (as already explained).

Why bother testing something like this on a dyno when it can be done in my garage so that the car is completely setup to tune on the dyno from the moment it's strapped on.

I have tested these things, many times, tuned them, etc... They are not as good as other valves out there. If you're going to spend the money, I would put it towards one that does not leak at all. When I finally replace the valves (or have the customer do it), the fuel trims become tighter and consistent.

Enjoy your inferior valve. I, and other tuners simply recommend spending your money on something better, generally in the same price range. It simply is not the best for your money.
 

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On topic "How to safely get turbo flutter"


Why is this even a thing :( :( :(

Attempt to get your car to run well - then tolerate the sounds that it will surely make :)
OK enjoy them, but making sounds intentionally? Get a hood scoop at Auto Zone and a speaker to go under it . . .
 

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On topic "How to safely get turbo flutter"


Why is this even a thing :( :( :(

Attempt to get your car to run well - then tolerate the sounds that it will surely make :)
OK enjoy them, but making sounds intentionally? Get a hood scoop at Auto Zone and a speaker to go under it . . .
Adding: I fully realize that just because I appreciate fast cars, who am I to say someone else shouldn't want aa, a, um, a, seriously, fluttery car he, he. Still a car is primarily a device that of motion. Noise?

Fun watching 8CRDs vids, but chirps aren't what I call flutter, are they?
 

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I did not say you said that. What I did say is that you thought there was only one way and they only way to test these things in the beginning, which is why my initial post opened with, "incorrect".





I've already explained the multiple points at where these leaks are not desirable and you still do not seem to get it. This is exactly why I compared you to BnB... I am talking to sense, to a wall. Where are you coming up with 1ml/s? How have you tested this? And a leak at a control valve does more than just leak metered air (as already explained).

Why bother testing something like this on a dyno when it can be done in my garage so that the car is completely setup to tune on the dyno from the moment it's strapped on.

I have tested these things, many times, tuned them, etc... They are not as good as other valves out there. If you're going to spend the money, I would put it towards one that does not leak at all. When I finally replace the valves (or have the customer do it), the fuel trims become tighter and consistent.

Enjoy your inferior valve. I, and other tuners simply recommend spending your money on something better, generally in the same price range. It simply is not the best for your money.
Why bother testing on a dyno you say, because it replicates what is really going on, and it takes seconds.

And still it doesn't leak on the dyno, yes, except for a small bubble that forms on the vta port.

1ml/s is the my guestimation of how much air is leaking out the VTA post at 20psi.

I used 1ml/s due to, Liters per minute used by the engine = 2.500 cc x 4000 rpm = 10000 lpm/60 = 166 liters of air a second are engufled by the engine, if my math is right, so that small bubble that forms is, 1ml of the 166000ml/s the engine uses.

I thought you would have known was I was referring it to, it's the same math that GFB used in their YouTube after you contacted them with your enquiry isn't it.

Tuners in Australia don't seem to have the issues you are having.

Disclaimer: I've been in the sun all day drinking and fishing with the boy, my math may be flawed!
 

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Why bother testing on a dyno you say, because it replicates what is really going on, and it takes seconds.
You completely missed my point, however, I will add that we take the car onto the street to finish the tune to do things a dyno cannot replicate.

And still it doesn't leak on the dyno, yes, except for a small bubble that forms on the vta port.

1ml/s is the my guestimation of how much air is leaking out the VTA post at 20psi.


I used 1ml/s due to, Liters per minute used by the engine = 2.500 cc x 4000 rpm = 10000 lpm/60 = 166 liters of air a second are engufled by the engine, if my math is right, so that small bubble that forms is, 1ml of the 166000ml/s the engine uses.
Unless you measure it, it's not even worth mentioning in your argument.

I thought you would have known was I was referring it to, it's the same math that GFB used in their YouTube after you contacted them with your enquiry isn't it.
I didn't care for their responses when they were giving them to me. Just like most manufacturers of products across the board, even non-car related, you get BS. They can design a better valve.


Tuners in Australia don't seem to have the issues you are having.
I am not the only tuner here in the greatest fucking country that does not like the GFB valves. ;)

Additionally, what tuners do you know on a level where you can actually get into the nitty gritty of tuning?

In the end, there are better valves for the money, so I spend my money on better valves, as well as recommend better valves.
 
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