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Discussion Starter #1
So, I noticed someone else in this forum has an interest in guns and I decide to start a discussion.

This is way off topic, but I am interested to see if there are any other ImprezaWRXSTi Forum users who have some advice. I am interested in purchasing a handgun, and I am looking for real honest suggestions and experiences. I have some experience shooting, I have spent quite a bit of time at ranges and testing out various firearms. I have shot everything from 1000fps pellet guns to full auto machine guns. I am currently interested in the following makes in .40 S&W: H&K, Glock, Sig, Walther, S&W, and perhaps Beretta. I am looking for some general advice on something that I can shoot on weekends. Also something that is not too expensive (thats why I haven't bought the H&K, yet).

Something that is typical in different auto forums is the buy what you like response. I would like to do that, but money may be an issue. Mostly I am looking for personal experiences and prefences.
 

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Well, like you said, the "buy what you like" response will be typical, but in handguns, maybe more so than cars, if it doesn't fit you won't be happy. At least go to a dealer that carries most of the guns you are comparing so you can hold them and see how they fit your hands.

The same goes for the brand. Personally, I cannot stand the Glock trigger. I know that the gun is well made, but I cannot shoot it well because of the "double action only" style trigger and trigger interlock. Some people swear by Glocks and that's all they'll carry. All the firearms you have mentioned are high quality pieces, so I wouldn't worry about the brand. Choose the one that fits you hands, your needs, and your budget.

As far as a cheap weekend range gun goes, .40 S&W might not be the best choice. The ammo is still pretty pricey when compared with some other rounds. If I were looking for a "fun gun", I would go with 9mm. Depending on where you go, you can get 9mm for 2/3 to 1/2 the price of .40 S&W. However, if you're looking for a gun that can be a combination fun gun/protection gun, .40 S&W might be better. I have several handguns ranging from a .22 Ruger Government model to a Springfield Armory .45 (Colt knockoff). While I would not hesitate to use my 9mm for protection, I am a lot more selective about the ammo I use in it than I am my .45 for the same purpose.

If I had to get rid of all my handguns except one, I would keep my CZ-75. It is the cheapest gun I have ever bought from a price standpoint (I payed $250 for a used one. It probably had 50 rounds go through it before I bought it), but it is without a doubt the most comfortable, best shooting, best made gun I have owned. I can buy a brick of generic 9mm FMJ for $7 and have a blast at the range, or load it with Federal Hydroshock JHPs and feel comfortable at night.

One last thing: If you don't like what you end up with, it isn't the end of the world. Just trade it in on something else. Just like a car, only cheaper. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting that you mention the CZ-75. I haven't seen many of them, in fact, I have never had a hand on one. But I have read a bit about them on the internet. I will look for that one. Any other suggestions out there?
 

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Most dealers that I have been to usually have one or 2 used ones. They can still be ordered new for around $500, but with the post-ban 10 round mags. :( Most of the used ones have one or more 15 round mags. You can still get the hich-caps for them for around $38/ea. Make sure you get real CZ mags and not a knockoff, as they repros can cause feed problems. Let me know if you need more info.

J.B.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Need more info. The CZ website shows many variations of the CZ 75. Can you help sort this out for me? And are there any that are preban/postban only (what is avail w/hicap mags)?
I like the CZ-100, and the 75 BD police has some nice features too.
Also the how is the wear on the Polycoat?

Sorry for the 20 questions.
 

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What are these CZs you guys are talking about? I have never heard of them before. You have a link to a web page? Thanks.
 

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Re: California Emissions

STiWant1 said:
Need more info. The CZ website shows many variations of the CZ 75. Can you help sort this out for me? And are there any that are preban/postban only (what is avail w/hicap mags)?
I like the CZ-100, and the 75 BD police has some nice features too.
Also the how is the wear on the Polycoat?

Sorry for the 20 questions.
No sweat... here are the essentials: the CZ-75 B is simply the latest generation of CZ-75. The B indicates the firing pin block safety, something that was added to the standard CZ-75 quite some time ago. It prevents the firing pin from hitting the primer unless the trigger is pulled. BD is a de-cocker version. Instead of activating the safety, the lever is a de-cocker which safely lowers the hammer without firing the round in the chamber. This is my personal preference. DAO is double-action only. Every time you pull the trigger, it's double action. When the round is discharged, the hammer stays down. The standard model fires in single action mode after the inital trigger pull.

Since CZ was only producing the 9mm version of the CZ-75 before the high-cap ban, it is the only one that has high-cap magazines available. The .40 S&W was introduced right around the time of the ban, so there aren't many guns available with high-cap .40 S&W mags. The way the ban works is simple. Any magazines produced before the ban can still be sold to civilians. This includes new and used magazines. However, any magazines produced after the ban must be 10 rounds or less, unless they are sold to police or military. So, you're looking for either new old stock (new magazines that are pre-ban, but never sold) or good used magazines.

To answer your question in a simpler way, the 9mm was available both before and after the ban, while the .40 is post-ban only. Both 10 and 15 round 9mm mags are available, while the .40 only has 10 rounders. Anything you buy new will have 10 round mags.

My CZ-75 B has the polycoat, and I am very happy with it. It shows 0 holster wear even after being carried a significant amount. It seems to shed water, dirt, and other grime well, and is self-lubricating. While I like the look of stainless, it has its drawbacks, especially for an all-purpose gun. The polycoat is as good or better than anything else on the market right now.

Let me know if you need anything else.

J.B.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Talking about new guns only and lets say 9mm to make it clearer:
What are the relative prices of some of the major brands. I have gotten confused by going to gun shows, different dealers who only sell a couple of brands and so on... Talking same caliber, similar frames and finishes, what are the general opinions or facts about the major manufacturers and even some of the smaller companies and their relative prices?
Start with say: Glock, S&W, Beretta, CZ, Magnum Research, H&K, Walther, Sig, etc
add another if you know of one... I know that when it comes down to it feel is most important, but I also know the ones I prefer seem to most expensive (H&K USP). Some pricing info appreciated.
 

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STiWant1:

I don't own any handguns myself, but I have grown up with them from my dad and my father-in-law. Personally it really depends on what fits you the best. I would say this though...I do not like Beretta. I think they are kind of crappy handguns and overpriced. Of course this is a personal opinion.

I really like Glock and HK. I have messed with S&W, but I dunno didn't feel as right, but really the choice is up to you. One thing I'll add to is I would either go for a 9mm or 45. Don't mess with the other calibers b/c really go for something that is easily accessible and relatively cheap. 9mm would be the best of everything. Although not the best at stopping power it would do fine with some nice hollow points. Another thing to consider is if you have a wife or girlfriend a 9mm might fit better for her for shooting practice (something you both can enjoy) and also if she ever has to use it in defense it might make a better weapon for both of you. Of course in my experience both the 9mm and .45 kick about the same (to me), so its up to you. The .45 has more stopping power, but the ammo is a little more expensive and the handgun is a little larger depending on the model and make.
 

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I may have mentioned this elsewhere but,

Based on the guns you listed, I'd say that you could get them all around the same price if you shopped around a bit. Price will be dependant on your local dealers and what they want to do for you. The HK is going to be a little higher, regardless. Apart from that, it'll come down to personal preference. I don't like the way the S&W fits my hands. Also, the large frame HKs seem to be a little bulky. I have large hands, and I still can't seem to grip them comfortably.

I don't think you'd be unhappy with any of the guns you listed. 91TB78 had a legitimate point that the Berreta might not be the most gun for the money. They get a lot of movie time, but they're the most mass-produced gun in the bunch, and tend to have the most manufacturing discrepancies.

Get local prices for the guns you're looking for, then make sure they fit you. You should be able to narrow down your decision easily at that point.

One last thing to consider. Since you're going new, you're going to be limitted to 10 rounds no matter what. 90% of the 9mm's on the market were designed as high-capacity guns originally. The grip is wider to accomidate the double-stack mags. When they went to 10 rounds, the mag was modified but the gun remained unchanged. So you have wasted space. If I were looking at a new gun with the 10 round limit, I would get a Colt 1911-style .45. It is a very narrow frame, fits my hands great, and is a proven design. You get an 8 round single stack magazine. Given the choice between 10 rounds of 9mm and 8 rounds of .45, I'll take the .45 any day. I would get either a Colt Gold Cup or a Kimber. If price is an issue, I'd get a base model Kimber for around $550. It is a very nice piece. Just more for you to chew on. :)

Good luck.

J.B.
 

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Based on the guns you listed, I'd say that you could get them all around the same price if you shopped around a bit. Price will be dependant on your local dealers and what they want to do for you. The HK is going to be a little higher, regardless. Apart from that, it'll come down to personal preference. I don't like the way the S&W fits my hands. Also, the large frame HKs seem to be a little bulky. I have large hands, and I still can't seem to grip them comfortably.

I don't think you'd be unhappy with any of the guns you listed. 91TB78 had a legitimate point that the Berreta might not be the most gun for the money. They get a lot of movie time, but they're the most mass-produced gun in the bunch, and tend to have the most manufacturing discrepancies.

Get local prices for the guns you're looking for, then make sure they fit you. You should be able to narrow down your decision easily at that point.

One last thing to consider. Since you're going new, you're going to be limitted to 10 rounds no matter what. 90% of the 9mm's on the market were designed as high-capacity guns originally. The grip is wider to accomidate the double-stack mags. When they went to 10 rounds, the mag was modified but the gun remained unchanged. So you have wasted space. If I were looking at a new gun with the 10 round limit, I would get a Colt 1911-style .45. It is a very narrow frame, fits my hands great, and is a proven design. You get an 8 round single stack magazine. Given the choice between 10 rounds of 9mm and 8 rounds of .45, I'll take the .45 any day. I would get either a Colt Gold Cup or a Kimber. If price is an issue, I'd get a base model Kimber for around $550. It is a very nice piece. Just more for you to chew on. :)

Good luck.

J.B.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Your not far off from my own thinking but...

I have an uncle who collects Colts. He loves the 45 and is a cowboy gun freak. But he also has a Kimber 45 he shoots all the time. I originally wanted to go with a 45. Maybe a colt or a kimber. There are some issues that I have tho. Namely, the cost of 45 ammo, and the look and feel of the 1911 type 45's. Nothing against a classic, but I don't they feel very comfortable to me. Thats why I have eliminated those already (I have the most shooting time on 1911 style 45's).

I really like the other styles that have a thicker grip. I have paws, wide kinda stubby hands, and anything too thin just feels to thin.

The notes about Beretta are not new, and I have no strong desire to buy one, what if I through Ruger out there instead of Beretta?
 

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colt 45

Ruger seems to make a good gun, but I wasn't thrilled with the fit and finish of the few that I have shot. Lots of tooling marks on the frame and slide. Also, the trigger was kinda clunky. I like the various controls to "click" not clunk. I think I shot a P-100 with the poly/steel frame.

J.B.
 

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I agree...Ruger's fit and finish don't do it for me either.

Personally, if I were to go with an auto-pistol style over a revolver I would go with something proven to fire regardless of ammo..such as the glock or hk. Remember, price is important, but this could be saving your life someday (I sure hope not, but you never know).

If it fits personally I would get a glock..new or used..they are built tough. They have done dozens of rigor tests where the gun fired underwater after being submerged for a year, mud tests, cold weather, reloads, etc and it still fired.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Cool, thanks for all the info guys. I am going out to look at what is available used. Based on the info given it seems like I have a pretty good grasp of what is generally considered tried and true.
Top 3 are:

H&K
Glock
CZ

More info opinions and info welcome, I will let you know what happens.
 

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Sounds like you have a good list. As I said before, check out the Glock trigger before you buy. It's just right for some people, but others (like myself) find it to be a nusance. I have no complaints about the quality of the firearm itself.

Good luck.

J.B.
 

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thousand oaks/ westlake dealer says it will come march 2003

I say go for the gusto! spring for the gold plated Desert Eagle!!
YIKES!! :eek:

Although I think the Desert Eagles are nice, they are a bit too much! .50cal in a pistol with the size and weight...geez!
 
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