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Discussion Starter #1
How many of you are contemplating passing on the STI, when your turn comes up, if the detonation "problem" hasn't been adequatley addressed by Subaru?

(I hestiate to say problem, because it is not all STIs, but w/ only a few hundred in circulation, it seems widespread enough to be a legitimate concern.)

See following links if you aren't up on the detonation issue.

http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1820&highlight=ping

http://www.imprezawrxsti.com/postnuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1881&highlight=ping

http://www.turboxs.com/
(see 2004 STI Tech 101 section, @ bottom left)
 

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I have had my STI since Memorial Day. I have a little over 1700 miles on it and run 93 octane with full synthetic oil. I broke it in properly and have yet to have a single vibration/judder/ping/knock/clack/etc. I think before Subaru needs to address ANYTHING, we as a responsible consumer-based community should narrow down the issue even more. For example, did all of you just get a bad batch and I lucked out? No. Am I just an excellent driver? HECK no. Is it possible that there are a few STIs out there that might have "issues"? Perhaps. Regardless of the question/answer, these things take time and intense scrutiny before a company is going to apologize for mistakes in its brand new "halo" car. In the meantime, you as passing on enjoying an amazing machine on the off-chance that you might have to have it looked at once the "problem" (should there be a mass one) is solved. *shrug* Just an elated, and 100% satisfied, owner's opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
BHODGES3 said:
Is it possible that there are a few STIs out there that might have "issues"? Perhaps. Regardless of the question/answer, these things take time and intense scrutiny before a company is going to apologize for mistakes in its brand new "halo" car.
I see your point of view, but I think it is more than "possible".

There have been definite cases reported of multiple STIs that ARE having detonation problems. One while under diagnostic anlysis by professional tuners-can't argue imperical data.

And, yes, while it is only a few problem STIs (reported so far), like I mentioned, only a few have been sold. That makes the % of problemed STIs high. This car has been released to approximately what? 50 forum members; and we already have 5+ reports of detonation. That's 10%!

I for one don't want to waste $31K on a car that has a fairly good chance of self-destructing over time.

Furthermore, detonation can occur w/ out an audible symptom. Are you sure you don't have any???

Would you still be a happy STI owner if you found out 5 years from now you were having (silent) detonation, and you were looking at a $7000 engine overhaul from the years of premature wear?

Just a thought.
 

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I would still be happy. I can afford to pay 7k for 5 years with my car. I do, however, see your point as well. Due to the possibility of silent detonation, are you saying that we should all pay to have our cars checked out? Or that Subaru should do a recall in order to test all of their vehicles? I also read through all of the posts on here. And only Darwood is currently pinging. But even that is with "92 octane from questionable sources". I wonder if there is still pinging once he switches gas or if it will stop...like Octane's pinging problem. And this car has been released to MANY more people.. ones that aren't on this forum.. that probably would be if they had "pinging". I am not saying that this issue shouldn't be addressed. I am not even saying that it is understandable for there to be pinging running *below* the recommended octane rating. I am just saying that we might end up "reaping the whirlwind" if we press this prematurely.
 

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Stikya said:
I for one don't want to waste $31K on a car that has a fairly good chance of self-destructing over time.
I call BS on that statement. As you stated in your post, five + people have experienced what they think to be knock on this board. You are able to discern what will happen to this car in five years by posts on the internet by people unfamiliar to you. AMAZING! Any good stock picks for 2008?

You have been looking for a reason not to buy a STi and have sold yourself on this one. Enjoy your Evo.

Stikya said:
Not to poop on everyones party hat but...

Is the same thing going to happen w/ the STI that happened to the PT Cruiser when it came out?

Let's review-
UPON RELEASE: Limited production, niche market, big hype, deposit waiting lines, MSRP (or more) paid...

JUMP AHEAD 12-18 MONTHS : Niche market satisfied, sales drop, dealers selling at invoice (rebates galore), more than enough for everyone...

SUMMARY: all those initial buyers wasted thousands of dollars (in high purchase price) just to have the car a year or so before everyone else.

I'm as excited as everyone else; I'm on a waiting list and trying to decide (before my number is called) if this is really the car I want to buy right now (at only $500 below MSRP , when I've never paid more than Invoice + $500 for a car)

Are we making the same monetary mistake? Is it worth the extra $2000-3000 to have one before the masses? Or is this case different?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
BHODGES3 said:
I also read through all of the posts on here. And only Darwood is currently pinging. But even that is with "92 octane from questionable sources". I wonder if there is still pinging once he switches gas or if it will stop...like Octane's pinging problem. And this car has been released to MANY more people.. ones that aren't on this forum.. that probably would be if they had "pinging". I
There are a couple other post as well, besides what I posted links too. As well as TurboXS Ping review (running 93 octane). In all I counted 5 people who said they experienced pinging on above 90+ gas at some point.

Anyway, my main point was that the forum probably has a decent random sampling of the released STIs. And if 10% of that sampling is pinging, then probably 10% of all STIs are pinging, and that seems an unacceptable %.

I'd just like to stir up enough hype to get Subaru to at least look into it!

(I can afford the $7K too, but who wants to waste money on repairing damage that shouldn't occur?)
 

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Do what you want to do. I'll be accepting my STi regardless of any problem like this.

Reason being....this is a very simple problem to fix. Whether it be an ECU reflash or an SAFC.....it can be fixed IF....big if here...IF there is a problem.

I don't see this as a huge issue just yet. It certainly isn't enough for me to not buy the car. As described by many people, this is just a timing/fuel issue. It isn't like people are having the rear ends fall out of the cars.

And this percentage speculation......don't waste your time. Try to make a sample, that's fine, but don't go spouting off numbers. Keep in mind the total number of cars out there, those that visit forums, those that actually post, and those that are actually smart enough to know what pinging is. For every post that a qualified person posts, someone else asks "well, what does pinging sound like?" If they don't know what pinging is, they sure aren't qualified to state their vehicle has an engine problem.
 

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Actually it should have been "91 octane from questionable gas stations". :p

Since then I have filled up twice with Unocal 76, 91 octane and once with Chevron 91 octane in that order. I was able to get detonation on the Unocal 76 gas going up a really steep hill and going wot. I haven't tried to get detonation on the Chevron gas yet, but I'm getting less optimistic that a simple gas change can fix things. As most people have posted in other forums the detonation occurs around 3-4k.

I wouldn't stay away from the STi because of this problem. As CloNeGTS said it probably will be a simple fix. The detonation only seems to happen at wot as well, so the other simple solution in the mean time is not to run wot at 4k rpms. It still is a great car. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
CloNeGTS said:
It certainly isn't enough for me to not buy the car. As described by many people, this is just a timing/fuel issue. It isn't like people are having the rear ends fall out of the cars.
Well finally someone just answered the initial post question... somewhere in there.. I think. Your answer would be... "no, you are not comtemplating backing out, even if a problem exists. Good for you, a die-hard.

Let me put all sampling aside... As few STIs that have been released (couple hundred by now-fact), it is ridiculous that even 3-5 of them have experienced detonation.

I would definetely back out, if more people come forth with this issue, and Subaru doesn't address it.

Buying a car that is dentonating out of the box is ridiculous! To accept anything less than a car that is fully capable of running correctly (air/fuel, timing, etc..) when it comes off the lot, is to give the car companies no reason to try and avoid "allegid" (that is just for you nay sayers) problems like this when they manufacture them.

Sure it's a simple fix, if it exists; but I shouldn't have to fix my new car.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Quigybo said:
Stikya said:
I call BS on that statement. As you stated in your post, five + people have experienced what they think to be knock on this board. You are able to discern what will happen to this car in five years by posts on the internet by people unfamiliar to you. AMAZING!
Talk about taking something out of context.

I didn't say that would happen; i said what if it did. And asked would he still be happy.

I was in no way making a prediction; read more carefully before opening your mouth and saying something ignorant.

And I wouldn't be buying the EVO, anyway; it isn't the car I want-which is why I didn't buy it by now. Were you making an attempt at a predicition?
 

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i've been filling up with Chevron 91 and haven't heard any pinging...probably due to my loud stereo :lol:

anyway...even if something does happen, isn't it covered in the Subaru warranty?
 

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recommend stereo installers

Hey...you guys with STis....check your manuals for something.

Someone on NASIOC mentioned that Subaru has a statement in the WRX manual about knocking, something to the effect of "don't be surprised to hear occasional light pinging, especially under load. See your dealer if you have extreme knocking."
 

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Discussion Starter #13
rokuSTi said:
i've been filling up with Chevron 91 and haven't heard any pinging...probably due to my loud stereo :lol:

anyway...even if something does happen, isn't it covered in the Subaru warranty?
Good point.

I would just hate to drive even 1 mile detonating. But, I'll probably still buy the car, too. Unless many do come forth with the issue, and at that point Subaru would probably fix it anyway. So, I can still buy it.

I was just trying to gauge the concern over the issue and help me make the final decision (coming up); guess I found out. What concern? :lol:

Aside to all you w/ attitude: Man people get harsh here quick. What the he11 is wrong w/ you all?

I'm just trying to make sure myself and others don't get a car that is self-destructing. So, lighten the F**k up. I feel like everytime I post I end up defending my person, and no one even answers the question.

People on Maxima.org were much friendlier and more helpful.
 

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Stikya,

I am quite concerned with the pinging issue, and as such I've delayed my STi purchase for 1-2 months. I am waiting for other tuners (like Shiv) and experts to weigh in on this one, as I've yet to see any CA cars on the dyno with professional ears at work. One thing I am sure of is that asking owners to determine if they hear pinging is not the best way to see if there is a problem. The only way to be sure is to dyno 5-10 cars in a weekend and get some real statistical data on the subject. Since I am convinced that there is indeed some kind of issue, I will wait to learn how widespread it is and how easy it is to fix.

To turn a point made by another post on its head, what if your STi is one of the ones that pings? Even if it's a minority of the cars, it still means more risk in the future. How long will the motor last? What will it do to the resale value? How does it impact warranty claims? I don't relish the idea of taking the car in with a toasted motor and saying, "well, the car sure pinged alot". They'll claim bad gas, abuse, acts of god, and everything else they can to not fix it. I like gambling, but not with $31k.

I'm waiting to see how this pans out over the next few months. Look at the anguish of first-year E46 M3 owners. I don't want to be in that boat.

-ch
 

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I wouldn't call it unfriendly. I know you're local and I still gave you a little rash for throwing out numbers like "10% of all STis ping". Whether this is an issue or not is still up for debate....placing an effective rate is very premature IMO. Yeah, the issue seems to be getting more common as we go, but let's not jump the gun and give new forum readers a number to get stuck in their head.

This issue will be resolved...Subaru can't afford for their halo car to have issues. And as I said before, has anyone read their manuals for a mention of pinging in stock form? Here is a direct quote from a thread on NASIOC.

Do not be concerned if your vehicle sometimes knocks lightly when you drive up a hill or when you accelerate. See your dealer or a qualified service technician if you use a fuel with the specified octane rating and your vehicle knocks heavily or persistently.

Can anyone verify that????
 

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A lot of us are in denial... I know I was.... until I started detonating yesterday.... Properly broken in... 1300 miles on the odometer, full throttle between 3-4k..heart stopping pinging, not once, but twice in a row at full throttle. 93 octane gas. Never heard any knock until yesterday. Talked to the dealer, they really couldnt do anything b/c they dont know anything about the car yet. Emailed subaru, and they sent me this:

Thank you for your recent message to Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate
your comments and feedback. We would not know why you may be encountering
knock or ping noise concerns with your 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX Sti. We rely
on the expertise of the factory trained technicians at authorized Subaru
dealerships to inspect, diagnose, and repair our vehicles. Therefore we
would have to refer you to a dealer for your concern. If you do go to an
authorized Subaru dealer and would like us to follow up while your vehicle
is there, please let us know the name of servicing Subaru dealership and
date of the appointment.

Please also refer to page 7-14 of your Owner's Manual: "The engine may, on
rare ocasions, knock when the vehicle rapidly accelerates or rapidly pulls
away from a standstill. This phenomenon is not an indication of a problem in
your vehicle."

We have documented your concern in our customer service system. We use such
data from customers to log and track dealer and product performance. Please
contact our Customer/Dealer Services Center either by email or telephone
(1-800-SUBARU3) and refer to case number 508581, if you have further
questions. Thank you again for allowing us the opportunity to address this
matter.

Sincerely,

Petra Douglas
Subaru of America, Inc.
 

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knock

All,

For the best data we have so far, I'd point to the poll at NASIOC

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=3916

The way I read this, 25% of the poll say thier car pings. Another 21% aren't sure. The poll isn't scientific, but another way of looking at it is that 35 people have reported ping in their STi's. So it's not just one or two cars.

You shouldn't read too much into intenet polls, but it's pretty clear that there is indeed some kind of issue. BTW, a guy in SoCal has posted a potential workaround--I'll wait for the SOA version.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=377738

-ch
 

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Yeah, and the scariest part of all of the scenarios laid out is that this isn't an octane problem. There are just as many people pinging on 94 and 93 as there are people in Cali on 91.

As noted in the NASIOC threads....ANYONE WITH PING NEEDS TO REPORT IT TO THEIR DEALER!!!! If the dealers aren't being told about the problem, SOA and FHI don't know about the problem.
 

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Stikya - I have been waiting on this car for over 6mos. (since deposit) While I have heard reports of some pinging it's not a percentage that makes me terribly uncomfortable. Having said that, I would absolutely prefer NO STi's were reporting pinging! Am I going to pass on my dream car because a small % report a "possible" pinging? Absolutely not. I will keep my fingers crossed that my car is not in that % and hope to God that SOA does the right thing if the problems continue to arise. I also have readily available 94 octane (CT) and will add a gallon or two of race gas per tankful if that's deemed necessary. Let's all keep our collective fingers crossed, huh?
 
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