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Discussion Starter #1
Your opinion on the following subjects is greatly appreciated.

1. What's overall impression on the STi headlight? Are they bright enough for you? I drive between Toronto and London at night, at some aera they got no road lamp. HID makes a big difference comapred to other rentals that I had driven before. But I also noticed that the WRX headlight is pretty bright. So, how about the STi? Especially highway driving at night

2. Do you guys get attention from the cop? Sure it has a lot to do with how you drive, but what you drive also makes a difference. STi just begs attention. Which is something that I really don't want. So you guy have problem with the cops? I go to university at London and do travel and spend my weekends at Toronto whenever possibile. In my Acura TL, I havn't get pulled over for like 2 years (knock on wood!!!), but afriad that it will be pretty different with the STi.

p.s. I am asian in my early 20s. I would expect problems in the 416/905 aera no doubt.

3. kinda related to the last issue. Now I am considering either the STi or the Volvo S60R. The S60R cost more but not much more. It's got better sound system, HID, bababa and most importantly it's not as loud visually. People would just treat it like another Volvo.

I dont' mean to start a flame war, in my dream the STi is the car that I want to drive. The S60R is slower, and the AWD is crappy, more like FWD to me. However, I would believe that the S60R will be a more comfortable car to drive on a daily basis. What's your opinion?

Your opinion is greatly appreciated, and I don't mean to bash the STi or start a flame war between STi VS S60R. I just want some opinion to help make up my mind.

The price for STi $55000 after tax including auto dimming mirror
The price for S60R $70000 after tax including the fancy natural hide caramal interior.

However to make the STi feels more like the way it should be. I will add gauge package, I will upgrade the sound system. order rear seat cup holder from either Japan/HK/UK/Taiwan. Also HID kit. With stuff those stuff, the STi will actually cost me some where around $58000 after all.
 

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SL1200MK4 :
Hi, I am currently in the exact same situation as you are. The STi is my dream car and like you I would love to drive this car in my dreams. However, The STi is not the best car for my situation. I am a new university grad and am looking for a car that delivers performance, luxury and daily liveability. The new Volvo S60R is also one of my alternatives, however, there are many potential problems with that car as well and like you said the performance is not even close to the STi and in fact if you visit most volvo forums, the R cars are not meeting published performance numbers. I may have to settle for a 330i with M performance package and/or SMG. Sorry for posting off topic in this dedicated STi forum just wanted to give my two cents.

Cheers,

RASpecC
 

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Discussion Starter #3
RASpecC said:
SL1200MK4 :
Hi, I am currently in the exact same situation as you are. The STi is my dream car and like you I would love to drive this car in my dreams. However, The STi is not the best car for my situation. I am a new university grad and am looking for a car that delivers performance, luxury and daily liveability. The new Volvo S60R is also one of my alternatives, however, there are many potential problems with that car as well and like you said the performance is not even close to the STi and in fact if you visit most volvo forums, the R cars are not meeting published performance numbers. I may have to settle for a 330i with M performance package and/or SMG. Sorry for posting off topic in this dedicated STi forum just wanted to give my two cents.

Cheers,

RASpecC
Glad to know that I am not the only one. If the S60R can deliver what it promised, I really won't mind paying the extra money and live with the minor performance trade off.

But most poeple on the Volvo forum is saying that the S60R is more like 280HP, Actually I think it is worth the wait and see how the chips for the S60R will do. As far as the AWD system goes, well it's gonna feel like FWD after all I guess...

The 330i with performance package is really nice, but I personally dont' wanna drive a bimmer/Audi/MB to school. Because I am asian and dont' like the spoil kid image. With the Volvo, at least it feels that you are driving your dads car or something...
 

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SL1200MK4:
I know what you mean by spoil kid image as I too am asian and many ppl thought my family was rich. I'm sure IPD and others will come thru with a potent chip but I personally am not sold on the volvo anymore (time to get my refundable deposit back). Perhaps down the road...

If you are into modding, the WRX or STi platform will be great to work with.

Cheers,

RASpecC
 

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Discussion Starter #5
RASpecC said:
SL1200MK4:
I know what you mean by spoil kid image as I too am asian and many ppl thought my family was rich. I'm sure IPD and others will come thru with a potent chip but I personally am not sold on the volvo anymore (time to get my refundable deposit back). Perhaps down the road...

If you are into modding, the WRX or STi platform will be great to work with.

Cheers,

RASpecC
Huh... just out of curiousity, what else are you considering? I am not too sold on the 330i Performance package though. Not enough performance for me to give up the interior space. I also don't feel the 3 series sedan. But if I get the M3 Coupe, nobody sits at the back for safety reasons.

I been thinking about the 350Z, I mean if I can't have decent rear space, might as well not have it. But the tract package does not come with leather seat and with leather seats you can't get the brembo brake. I also feel that the Z is just like Japanese baby Corvette

This really drives me crazy, I think if the Volvo sales rep is willing to cut a good deal (like really good close to invoice deal, then I will keep the S60R on my list)...
 

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Hey SL - I'll toss in my 2 cents and answer your questions.

I think the STi headlights are great - very bright and good coverage, definitely better than any other vehicle I've driven. However, I haven't driven a vehicle with HIDs so I'm not exactly sure what a difference they make. However, I live in Calgary and drive the 22x out towards Bragg Creek and Kananskis a lot - very dark at night and you have to be on the lookout for animals - I found the STi headlights performed very well in this situation.

Although the STi is very eye catching, I had no problems with the police while I had my car. You get a lot of looks from other drivers who know, but thats about it. Also, I'm 23 and mostly highway drive to work 5 days a week - no problems.

Really though, you're comparing two completely different vehicles here. The Subaru is really geared towards enthusiast drivers, while the S60R gives you a mix of luxury and performance. If you want a more "comfortable" daily driver than the STi probably isn't the best choice for you. What I would do is list out the pros and cons about each vehicle you're considering - think about what is important to have and what isn't - that should help make your decision a bit easier. And go with your gut - I mean, if you really like the STi but feel the S60R is a better all around fit for you, the go for the S60R. I actually just traded in my STi on a LR Discovery SE - I had a tough time deciding between that and the Freelander, but I just laid out the pros and cons and that made the decision much easier.

BTW, if you're young and drive a nicer vehicle some people will always think you're either rich or spoiled or both. Both my wife and I are in our early twenties, and we get that a lot from people. However, what they don't know is that we both have a degree, both have decent jobs, and my wife is part owner of her dad's company - we have worked hard for what we have. Who cares what people think, just enjoy yourself. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks FlyFisher I really appreciate your comments as well as everyone else's comments of course.

As far as pro and cons... Well STi is all about performance and style, the other is comfort, luxury with some decent power. I talked to my friend and discussed the pros and cons.

I think it's the "little racer" inside me that wants the STi, I can't remember when's the last time that I actually race anyone or intend to drive seriously fast. But hack, it had been my dream car since the high school days when very few people even know about EVO, STi, and the WRC.

Seriously though, the S60R is the perfect car for me "ON PAPER". I am sure with ECU chip to say 350HP/350lb.ft. of torque, the performance will be close enough to the S4/M3/STi and make me happy. Some tuner got 355HP and 350+lb of torque with ECU alone already.

However the problem with the S60R is the handling, so far 99% of the people say that the steering lacks feedback and feelings. That would really suck. I guess I will just have to wait til I get to drive the S60R. The sale told me that it will be here in 10 days. The paddle seems to be hard to heel and toe as well.

Another issue that I have, is that the dealer in my town doesn't allow test drives. There is no way that I will buy a car without test driving it. I know it's a catch 22, because I want my car brand new as well.

I am in my senior years in university, I actually want the family man image to be honest. I am pretending to be mature I guess. :oops:

What really makes me sad is that, I know the STi is THE car. If they let me just drive it around the block slowly and just have a sense of feeling about that car. I think I probably brought it already. I am just not willing to live with the image and attention from driving a STi

On the other hand, I know that if I got the Volvo, I will regret and complain that a $700000 car gives me no handling, no feedback, no fun... :(

Tough... But thanks guys, I really appreciate all the comments. I think this is just one of those times where I know what I should do, but can't make up my mind to do it. Feels almost like talking to myself. :oops:
 

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Sounds like you really want the STi... just not the attention, etc, from other people.

If it were me, I wouldn't worry so much about what other people think, and get the car I really want....
 

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SL1200MK4:
Again, all of your points and arguments seem to be a splitting image of my feelings as well. The biggest reason I don't like the volvo is the fact that volvo pretends that the R is close to the league of the other P cars (i.e. M3, S4, AMG), at least in europe, yet it cannot and will not hang with those big boys (including the STi). I cannot justify having a nice "grand touring" car (i.e. nice interior and luxurious ride with above average performance).

Just to give you some background info on my situation. I have been vigorously researching which car to buy for about a year now (started during my last year of university) and I have finally narrowed the short list down to 3: STi, 330i w/ M performance, and volvo R. I do not consider the M3 (not practical for daily use) to be a contender for me. I also work in a profession that may contrast with having a car that looks like the STi. I do not put much weight in this last criteria as I know it has nothing to do with others perception but nonetheless it is a variable for me.

In terms of the volvo test driving, it may be difficult to get a drive in the R because they are still quite scarce in Canada. Also as you have alluded to, the clutch in the R has a paramountly huge engagement point and the brake and throttle are not very heeltoe freindly. Here in Edmonton, AB the R will cost me about $67,000 out the door when all things are said and done and like you said I do not want to spend that kind of money on a car just to regret it (some say almost complete lack of road feel+ not good for a supposed performance model).

As of right now I am leaning towards the bimmer and hopefully down the road I can get the next gen STi (hopefully a Spec C version:p) or B4 turbo as my weekend car:)

Whatever decision you make just make sure you are happy with it.

Just my 2 cents

Cheers,

RASpecC
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I totally agree with what you said on the R. I believe that the interface for the driver is very important and is actually part of the active safety feature of a car and ain't Volvo supposed to be safe? :roll:

Well, I guess driving is believing, we'll see. My Volvo dealer actually really want me to test drive that car I guess... Actually in some places they have a hard time selling the R even.

I do believe that however, with performance chips, the engine performance will be pretty close to the M3/S4/C32 or at least the STi. People dyno 247hp at the wheel stock. I guess it's just the tranny, AWD that sucked and the overall weight that kills the performance of the car.

I wouldn't care what Volvo pretends to tell me or anything, hack I think my Subaru dealer is selling the STi like they are selling some Ferraris, I kinda hate that attitude more actually.

All I want is a car that makes myself happy, and no, the Volvo is not the car. I could get some real good deal on the last Gen S4 2-3 years ago. I know you can chip that engine to babababa. But that clutch and tranny just kills the car. Dont' even mention the steering, it was okay. It was the clutch and tranny that made me hate the car. Feels just like the VW Golf... Rubbish...

Well, what's gonna happen remains to be seen, but I guess in the mean time, I will just wait. The S60R should be here in 10 days. I am however thinking about a refundable deposite on the Blue STi on the lot here, secure it before it's gone and it's too late.

Oh, and just to add another complication to my situation. I can afford the STi out of my own packet. However, my dad have a bad impression about the STi, so he said that he will chip in the difference between the STi and the S60R + another extra $5000 dollors if I opt the Volvo.

So, in my case it actually cost me less to get the Volvo... Complicated. It's actually not so much about how much the car cost me aftera all. My parents seems to be really concerned with the STi, and yes they do pay for my college education, so I respect their opinion more or less.

If I really can't get the STi, I guess I probabaly wont' get the S60R after all. I will have some seek for some other sporty alternative if it turns out that way I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
bitabur said:
So why aren't you looking at BMW's now....?
I am not looking into the BMW for a few reasons

- image, I don't like to drive the car that everyone else is driving. Too many asian drive BMW and I dont' wanna be one of them.

- space, the 3 series it just a tad too small for me, new 5 looks ugly... they should really just fire Chris Bangle

- dealer service, I know a person blow an M3 engine, which is common to all 2001 E46 M3s, and they tried to pretend that he mis-shifted :roll:

Speaking of the Audi S4, similr engine problem seemed have happened, damn 2 cars with less than 100 miles on them have the engine blow? Not the car for me.

I can still wait... but the TL must go before 100K KM...
 
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Fact is you love the STi or you don't, this is a pure performance car that can NOT be compared to volvo's and such. Sure such cars may have the same hp and such but the handling, drivetrain, brakes, tranny, suspension etc. are totally different.

The STi is a "in your face" raw performance car and yes it attracts attention, just like a porsche would or a viper. If you want luxury and finess then the STi is not for you. If you want the most performance bang for the buck then look no further. Subaru's are also very safe and well built cars, their safety standards are very high, up there with volvo and BMW. BUT! It is a performace oriented car first and foremost.
 

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SL1200MK4 :
I agree totally with you on the BMW image and that is why initially I did not consider the bimmers either. I wanted a performance car that was different, exclusive, and not so common b/c here in E-town it seems everyone and their grandmas are driving 3ers (mainly 323s). However, with that said there is no denying the absolute driving dynamics offered by the finely tuned bavarians (proven to death). I personally don't care if people think I am a snob or not but at the end of the day I will take the sheer driving nervana offered by the bimmer.

Turbs is exactly right with the STi. Either you love it or you don't. My brother drives a IS300 and can't stand the STi but then again he is more into refinement and luxury anyways. His next car will likely be the new S4. The STi is absolute performance in its rawest form. Those who wish to flaunt their wealth and show it off need not apply. Like I said, if I had a good daily driver the STi would be in my garage already.

Anyways, continue shopping all the options available and focus on your degree first b/c with your education in place, you can get whatever "toys" you want later in life.

Cheers,

RASpecC
 

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Ok, Here's my @ cents : I am in a somewhat similar quandry. I am in my last year of a residency in school... I have a wife and 1.5 kids. I NEED a coservative vehicle as a primary drive.... I also looked at the volvo... Very nice! BUT have the same afformentioned concerns... I think we Have decided that the forrester XT would be our primary, with a legacy STi when the xt is paid off... I guess waiting isn't that bad... wink wink!!! You have to put into persepective that this is a RACE CAR!!! Not a car to take to the mall or grocery store. .... ok I take that back ... LOL I'm trying to make myself feel better for not being able to get one for a long time....

But seriously, if your dad wants conservative, show him the legacy Sti... ( if you can wait until next year that is!!!! He may spring fot the extra $
 

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My previous vehicles have been mainly luxury SUVs with the exception of my old Plymouth musclecar. Luxury type vehicles have a few more buttons and gadgets which are fun at first but you eventually tire of them and after a while don't use them anyways. As for comfort I find the Sti seats very comfortable and supportive. The ride is a little rough on the worst roads. I am able to carry a tremendous amount of gear in this car.

Performance is where it's at with this car. Accelleration and Handling!

If you are worried about the looks of the Sti. Take the wing off. Buy a second trunk lid. That is what attracts most of the attention from people who don't know.

I have had my Sti for a couple of months now and wouldn't consider going back. I'm having way too much fun driving this machine.
 
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