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Just wanted to say thanks for putting this thread together, and this also potentially saved my new motor.

I had been running E85 for a couple thousand miles and I was in the middle of my rebuild and came across this page (can't remember if it was posted here or where): Injector Dynamics - Alcohol Article

The injectors (were running E85) had been sitting in the open for about a month in very humid weather, so right before the injectors were about to go in, I got them flow tested. I'm glad that I did because one was very gunked up and flowing about 60cc less than the rest. Cleaned, and flow tested again, all was good to go. Happily burning E85 again!
 

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E85 will see higher cylinder pressures due to the need to run more timing. You won't risk lifting a head if have a smaller turbo but if you are pushing a 75-80lb/min turbo at >30psi then the high cylinder pressure is compounded by the aggressive timing for E85. I would recommend getting head studs that are stronger than ARP at that point...
 

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E85 will see higher cylinder pressures due to the need to run more timing. You won't risk lifting a head if have a smaller turbo but if you are pushing a 75-80lb/min turbo at >30psi then the high cylinder pressure is compounded by the aggressive timing for E85. I would recommend getting head studs that are stronger than ARP at that point...
It doesn't *need* more timing, but it can make use of more timing. I installing a forged piston short block now due to lifting a head on a 20G, albeit I ran it pretty far.
 

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I ruined a set of ID2000s because I left E90 "on" them for like 6 months -- completely rusted out the steel valves inside ... ooops. Lesson learned. If you're NOT daily driving with ethanol, you need to make sure you drive the car at least once a week good or switch it back to gas while it sits. (mine is not my daily driver)

Other than that, been using it for years and love the performance advantage for racing.


Just wanted to say thanks for putting this thread together, and this also potentially saved my new motor.

I had been running E85 for a couple thousand miles and I was in the middle of my rebuild and came across this page (can't remember if it was posted here or where): Injector Dynamics - Alcohol Article

The injectors (were running E85) had been sitting in the open for about a month in very humid weather, so right before the injectors were about to go in, I got them flow tested. I'm glad that I did because one was very gunked up and flowing about 60cc less than the rest. Cleaned, and flow tested again, all was good to go. Happily burning E85 again!
 

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my tune on e85 in s sharp is at 19psi, and got about 330hp/378ftlbs on a mustang dyno. i did ask for a conservative tune, but now im thinking to dial it up a little more. how far do you guys think i can push it while still being safe? im still on the stock turbo. at what point will it start to lift the heads?
 

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Are the rough starts part of running ethanol? On cold starts, my car literally turns over 5 or 6 times before it lights off and starts running. And it's always up in the 1500 rpm range once it starts, takes a minute or two to level down to 800 ish. I've heard both are normal for E85 on initial startup for the day, but i've also heard of people with tunes that start up on a dime and idle great even when cold. I make a point to drive my car at least once every day or two to keep down on corrosion. I also began using Lucas Ethanol treatment/stabilizer on each fill up. I live in Phoenix Arizona where we get summer blend almost exclusively throughout the year, although my car was tuned for "E74". Is the hesitation due to my middle ground ethanol tune (meant to run various blends of ethanol), or is this normal? I have a Walbro 450 fuel pump, ID 1000cc injectors, and spark plugs are NGK iridiums gapped at 32 thou.
 

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Ethanol is going to be harder to start, even when they start "well" on a good tune. In addition, the ECU will run the initial idle higher, the colder it is. I have never seen a computer controlled car not idle high when the engine coolant is cold.

You live in Phoenix, Arizona... Corrosion is highly unlikely since it comes from water. If your system is properly sealed, you'll be hard pressed to absorb any water. I store my cars for 6 months at a time with E85 in the tank and I actually have moisture where I live (although I grew up in Phoenix). With that said, your cold starts aren't really "cold".

You can stop wasting your money on the ethanol treatment and you don't need to make it a point to drive it every day.
 

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Guess I should stop letting the rough starts and idling bother me. I thought the corrosion was more due to the fuel than the environment. The way that alcohol burns vs the way gasoline burns supposedly leaves moisture inside the engine. I know I get a hell of alot more condensation out of my exhaust than I ever did with 91 octane. The additive is $6, and lasts me 5 fill ups. I'll probably keep using it just as an insurance measure if nothing else. Got way too much money tied up in this car to ruin an engine for being complacent.
 

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Moisture comes from warm/hot combustion and cold parts (similar to a glass of ice water in a warm and moist climate gathering condensation), regardless of fuel. With that said, given where you live, you shouldn't have a rough start nearly ever. I know the winter will dip just below freezing there at night some times, but that's not cold enough to have issues if your tune is on point.

I'm telling you that you're completely wasting your money. If you're seeing moisture, what do you expect that stabilizer to do?
 

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I'll be completely honest. There are 0 experts in E85 used in these cars at the moment. There's alot of self proclaimed gods and people making records on the track, but everyone is learning at this point. Making recommendations for what is or is not a waste of money is foolish at this point. And at $6 a month compared to the $10,000 I've thrown at this car, it isn't hurting anything. It may or may not help, but its not hurting and it very well may be protecting my investment.
 

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If by educate you mean digest all the threads on IWSTI and Nasioc, been there done that. And I spend quite a bit of time outside of this hot hell hole. I visit the California coast and Colorado as much as I can. That $6 bottle of stabilizer really got you going didn't it.
 

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I wouldn't call that getting me going... I used to live in Colorado and still have an office there I work at every month; it is also dry there. If your system has no leaks and is probably sealed as it should be, water absorption is not an issue (which is the real problem with ethanol... And brake fluid).

Stabilizer is meant for long term storage to prevent varnish which is not something I have seen E85 do. What I am saying, regardless of cost, you're spending money on something that is doing nothing for you.

As far as education, I wasn't referring to The Subaru boards. I guess I don't know anything... I mean, I cannot even remotely remember the number of customer cars I have running E85 for years without and ethanol related issue. Even "CJ from the Internet" uses ID2000's without any additive during storage and hasn't suffered any moisture related issues, but we know his system is still probably sealed too.
 

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I've been using E85 for around 5 years .... the only issue I've had with it is when I blew my engine, and left the injectors full of E85 for 6 months -- they corroded out (the iron valve in my ID2000s) .... if I would have just taken them out and put a little WD40 on them (or ran normal fuel through them for a few minutes), all would have been good. Outside of that, Ethanol is great and I can't think of any other negative about it -- "cold start" issues aren't an issue for me as I don't run it in the winter -- and I've tuned it well enough for cold starts anyway (when it gets around freezing in the early Spring/late Fall while I'm still on it).

If you plan to let your car sit for more than 2-3 weeks with E85, I wouldn't do it (unless you live in a very dry place) ... if you drive the car every day or almost every day, you won't have any issues.
 

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He lives in an extremely dry place (single digit humidity and hot). Seriously though, I let my cars sit ALL THE TIME with E85 and they've been fine. My S2000 is just using STi OEM injectors and I pulled it out of it's 3rd winter storage with them installed and with E85 in the tank. I also live in humid climate. I do top off my tank before storage, however, there has been a time or two where I stored a car with a 1/4 tank.
 

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Depends which injectors you run -- ID2000s have a steel valve (why it's not stainless steel is a question I posed to Tony and he said they're working on it with Bosch) ... it will corrode if it gets too much water on it for a long time. The other IDs have a rubber valve, so no issues with those. I'm guessing a lot of other injectors won't have that issue, so you're more than probably right (as usual). Just watch ID2000s ... I had to get all new ones after that last episode (and the guys at ID replaced them for basically cost .... another reason why to buy IDs if you can).



He lives in an extremely dry place (single digit humidity and hot). Seriously though, I let my cars sit ALL THE TIME with E85 and they've been fine. My S2000 is just using STi OEM injectors and I pulled it out of it's 3rd winter storage with them installed and with E85 in the tank. I also live in humid climate. I do top off my tank before storage, however, there has been a time or two where I stored a car with a 1/4 tank.
 
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