IW STi Forum banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
I have a Tomei ELH and invidia dual N1. Not raspy here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
I never buy the argument “it doesn’t sound like a subie” when the jdm and wrc cars are all elh.
but still, one can appreciate the Subie rumble, just like carburator cammed big block v8 has a particular sound
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,291 Posts
Do not forget to either ceramic coat it with a GOOD coating or wrap it with a GOOD wrap like what DEI offers. I prefer wrapping and have had good success with it. Either are better at heat management than just factory shielding
Not even close. Factory is very good. Metal sheiling relectes radiat and prevents ambient air from direct flow and carrying much heat away.

Ceramic barely works. The common "good" stuff cuts radiat 30%, but its 15mil thikness does little ()something but little) for most of the loss which is condiucted and carried away in the form of hot air. It's manufacturer does not claim it does! It has advantages. It's better than nothing. Its light, It lasts and need no maintenance, and it can't get oil soaked and be the cuase of a fire. But perfrmance?. Yah I hear F1 use it - and the answer is in combination with what?

I had Holy Headers paired with 4 different exhausts, from stock to Q300, AWE touring and COBB ti. It sounded amazing with AWE, absolutely sings up top with a clean note as it progressively grew louder all the way to crescendo. COBB comes in second, had a deeper midrange. Q300 was raspy and so was stock but muted in volume. The only reason to take COBB over AWE is volume, about 2-3 dB quieter inside the cabin.
My GD has a Tomei heaer w catted Cobb Turbo back. Not at all raspy. Pretty Load. A little fat - written many times -a ot like as a very load and angry killer bee - a lot like a porsche. I was never thrilled with it - but sound wan't very important to me as long as it want too loud - and its borderline. I appreciate the soen a lot more these day wihth the longer ratio trans. 5th wines and winds like a real car :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Not even close. Factory is very good. Metal sheiling relectes radiat and prevents ambient air from direct flow and carrying much heat away.

Ceramic barely works. The common "good" stuff cuts radiat 30%, but its 15mil thikness does little ()something but little) for most of the loss which is condiucted and carried away in the form of hot air. It's manufacturer does not claim it does! It has advantages. It's better than nothing. Its light, It lasts and need no maintenance, and it can't get oil soaked and be the cuase of a fire. But perfrmance?. Yah I hear F1 use it - and the answer is in combination with what?



My GD has a Tomei heaer w catted Cobb Turbo back. Not at all raspy. Pretty Load. A little fat - written many times -a ot like as a very load and angry killer bee - a lot like a porsche. I was never thrilled with it - but sound wan't very important to me as long as it want too loud - and its borderline. I appreciate the soen a lot more these day wihth the longer ratio trans. 5th wines and winds like a real car :)
I have not used ceramic coatings myself but I have and do use good header wrap. The header wrap works better than factory shielding. You can feel the underhood differences.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,416 Posts
When you guys are comparing thermal management solutions, keep in mind the 3 ways heat is conducted. Example: an OEM shield may improve temps of a nearby component, but unless it is sealed or exceptionally high quality (I.e.: not Subaru, lol) it is not going to improve the thermal properties IN the tube like a high performance thermal coating can. Either way, splitting hairs and really no-one has any data showing one is conclusively better than the other. On the other hand, there is lots of data showing something is better than nothing. When we discuss thermal management with customers, it's ALWAYS based on the application: street, race, traffic, highway commuting, off-road, etc... In short, there is no 1-best solution for thermal management that fits ALL applications and conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
When you guys are comparing thermal management solutions, keep in mind the 3 ways heat is conducted. Example: an OEM shield may improve temps of a nearby component, but unless it is sealed or exceptionally high quality (I.e.: not Subaru, lol) it is not going to improve the thermal properties IN the tube like a high performance thermal coating can. Either way, splitting hairs and really no-one has any data showing one is conclusively better than the other. On the other hand, there is lots of data showing something is better than nothing. When we discuss thermal management with customers, it's ALWAYS based on the application: street, race, traffic, highway commuting, off-road, etc... In short, there is no 1-best solution for thermal management that fits ALL applications and conditions.
What are your thoughts on turbo blankets? I'm not sure if you guys sell those yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
What are your thoughts on turbo blankets? I'm not sure if you guys sell those yet.
I can tell you I see a benefit with them myself. Spool up is faster and it helps to keep from heat soaking the intercooler mounted above it. In the middle of summer on track running 20 minute sessions and no issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
I can tell you I see a benefit with them myself. Spool up is faster and it helps to keep from heat soaking the intercooler mounted above it. In the middle of summer on track running 20 minute sessions and no issues.
Good to hear. I've picked up a turbo blanket and some heat wrap for an aftermarket downpipe to hopefully keep under hood temps down and away from my intercooler. I have to see if the blanket still fits though as I bought it for a stock turbo and recently picked up a slightly larger aftermarket turbo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Good to hear. I've picked up a turbo blanket and some heat wrap for an aftermarket downpipe to hopefully keep under hood temps down and away from my intercooler. I have to see if the blanket still fits though as I bought it for a stock turbo and recently picked up a slightly larger aftermarket turbo.
It should still.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,416 Posts
What are your thoughts on turbo blankets? I'm not sure if you guys sell those yet.
I've used them a few times and I've used Swain Tech on the turbine housing a few times. I've done heat shields around the turbine and between hot and cold (TMIC). The amount of volume and thermal losses in the turbine are miniscule and I've never seen a measurable gain solely from insulating the turbine housing. On the other hand, insulating AND shielding the turbine reduced intake tract temps 40 degrees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
971 Posts
I didn't notice any difference with the turbo blanket. I got a PTP Lava one for my EFR turbo, and people were saying they could "touch the blanket and it was cool to the touch". That definitely wasn't my experience haha.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,291 Posts
I didn't notice any difference with the turbo blanket. I got a PTP Lava one for my EFR turbo, and people were saying they could "touch the blanket and it was cool to the touch". That definitely wasn't my experience haha.
That was a silly claim. The outside is going to be hotter than your underhood temp no matter what . . . a lot hotter.
It's doing its job very well if you can dab at all with a moistened finger without hearing a sizzle and have skin go white.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,291 Posts
I can’t add to my just previous post(s) so here’s a new one. We really need some math here, but in lieu of that here’s someone elses words that are something I would have/could have written including the "Some equipment I have designed . . ."

58487


700C is just starting to be significant – not dominant, and particularly not dominant in the forced air situation while a car is moving at high speed. Sure we might run a bit higher – even up 900C WFO, and that reminds us why F1 might use ceramic coatings. They surely run a lot hotter than we do. Blindly copying a race car isn’t always a good thing.

Stock heat shields inhibit the flow of air and do a lot for convection, and when they are newish they work quite well against radiation. As they age they will loose reflectivity though.

What we should realize is that sitting at idle while your exhaust is not even close to 700C , ceramic will do almost nothing to aid in lower under hood temps while wrap and stock shields will. WFO the performance of ceramic will improve. That’s does not mean that it will be better than wrap or stock shield though. Those looking for awesome ought to look into Yamahas post with Inconel shields. Think stock but thinner and lighter, work better and last longer performance wise.


If the pic inserted here work I will finally post my header rewrap pics
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,416 Posts
^ I believe that article is discussing radiant heat in regards to the effects on components (namely solar panels) in space. Radiant heat is a much bigger concern in space, but we're not in a vacuum and not exposed to temperatures that can melt our cars :p Plus you left our the details of how the radiant heat 'reflectors' need to be mirror polished to be effective ;)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,291 Posts
^ I believe that article is discussing radiant heat in regards to the effects on components (namely solar panels) in space. Radiant heat is a much bigger concern in space, but we're not in a vacuum and not exposed to temperatures that can melt our cars :p
Exactly!!! Radiation is of far less importance to to a head on earth than it would be in space!!!
My argument has been that radiation isn't the primary form of heat loss to a street cars header - here on earth in an atmosphere..

OK I'll backup and go point by point:

1) The quote I posted was not solely concerning anything "in space" unless you mean everything is in space including us and our cars.

2) Radiation has nothing to do with vacuum/pressure which you imply, the presence of mater is important to convection and the proportions of of heat between it and raditaion.

3) Ironically though you sound as though you believe being in a vacuum would benefit your argument that radiation is the a very very important part of heat loss to a header on a street car, the opposite is true. In a vacuum, only radiation is of consequence as there is no convection or conduction. - and this was clearly stated in the article


Plus you left our the details of how the radiant heat 'reflectors' need to be mirror polished to be effective ;)
Actually no. I specifically address this though I was not clear about it., But first let me say that metal does not need to be "mirror polished" to reflect a large percentage of radiation on it. Among the articles I read in writing my post were some concerning power lines. (here on earth in our atmosphere) I learned that newly installed high tension lines absorb radtiation at app 90% which may deteriorate to 60% in app 5 years. Radiation and absorption are the same thing in that a good radiator is a good absorber. and if you know one you know the other. The engineers working with powerlines wanted to lean radiation, but measured absorption .

Anyway I clearly stated that (non-polished) stock heat shields would be good reflectors (because they are shiny - for a reason!) and that their performance would deteriorate in time (because they will be less shiny).- I also noted that the thin Iconel shield would be better - if not ideal,. I'd quote myself, but who knows if this site will allow me to edit this for a cut and paste of the quote. This is partly because they will be more reflective and remain reflective that way longer. It is also because they are multi-layer and the inside volume is more form fitting, enclosing a smaller volume of air.

So if a reflector must be shiny to do its job, please explain how white lightning works!!! I'll give you a head start :) . . . it is white and that helps . . . uh . . . cut radiation by it claimed meager 30%. Hmm mmmm . Perhaps that's entirely how it works! It's white and remains so!!! That also mean you need to keep em clean for maximum performance - or maybe re-coat em in a few years!!! Dirty secrets :) :) :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,416 Posts
I like what I like based on the results we've seen from it and what other capabilities they have. Sounds like you have your own experiences that form your thoughts as well. You don't have to keep trying to claim you're right, because really if you're managing thermal issues you're already better off than not.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,291 Posts
I only have a little bit of auto experience and I want members here to understand that. Not here to be right or wrong. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong when someone demonstrates I am. But a little bit of physics goes a long way in understanding what should be good and what is better. The understanding of the temperatures and conditions at which radiation becomes important to us is one of those things. But, headers are a case, where all the forms of heats loss play a part at different times.
. . . .
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top