I pulled this from the other thread in order not to hijack it.
--------original post---------------
I thought I would chime in here because I have had experience in both a E46 M3 SMG & a STi on a racetrack.
It is a pretty good comparison, as it was the same driver, on the same course, at the same time. The instructor (not my instructor) had a M3 and I had the STi. I was a passenger both time, as the instructor had driven the STi a couple of times before. The format was 3 laps in the M3, jump out of the car, and then 5 laps in the STi right away. probably 3 minutes between the end of the M3 laps and the start of the STi laps. Both stock tires. stock vehicles.
My impressions:
The M3 is FAST...the smooth power delivery and it corners really well and brakes like a monster. Obviously this was the instructors car and he was very familiar with it's limits. I had been driving my STi all day and the M3 didn't really give up anything in any area of driving (accel, braking, turning). I did feel like it was a little more connected with the road, a little bit more responsive to steering inputs. A more 'connected' feel to the road than the STi. Overall, the experience in the M3 made me want to get one someday...they're great cars. Kind of like a refined experience...enter the turn right, and it would carve it's way out of the turn with precision. yum.
The STi on the other hand was what I would call the 'american monster'. Acceleration-wise, it was even with the M3, although not as smooth in the power delivery, which is to be expected. I was checking the speed at the end of the straightaways just before braking, and both times, the STi was neck and neck with the M3 (1 mph difference usually. occasionally 2-3 when the instructor overcooked the turn leading to the straighaway.) Brake wise I felt the STi was better in braking than the M3. i.e. I was thrown forward more in the STi than I was in the M3. Not by much, but enough for me to notice. Handling is where the difference was at. While the M3 was all about 'smooth, smooth, smooth' and felt like it was gobbling up speeds at a fast rate, the STi was all about 'just chuck it into the corner and power out of the turn, cause you have POWER' It just seemed a lot more brash than refined. The connection to the road in the STi wasn't quite as close as the M3 was. With the M3, you had a intimate connection with the road. With the STi, you still had that connection, but it was muffled somewhat. The place where the STi excels was in the track-out...here is where the STi really just pulled itself out of the corner with frightening authority...much more so than the M3. So after a couple of laps, you could really come out of the turns a bit faster than the M3, even though the turn may not have been as smooth.
All this being said? The instructor said it this way. "I really like the M3. I also really like the STi. The first time I got into the STi after my M3, I dropped 2 seconds off my lap time. The STi just powers itself out of turns so quickly and easily that you can get on the gas a lot earlier than you can the M3."
Oh yes, the DCCD setting was set at LOCK. Both me and the instructor found this to be the best setting for us. With the DCCD in Auto, I felt like the car was driving and I wasn't. i.e. I wanted to rotate the car and in LOCK it was easier to do that vs. AUTO. With LOCK I felt more connected to the road and had more fun. I had AUTO on for the first couple of track sessions and was doing really well, but after I turned it to LOCK, I ended up going much faster around the track. I guess if you were a professional driver or a better driver than me, then AUTO would be faster, but I don't know. I'm just giving you the instructors and my experience.
All in all, MY instructor (who has a E36 M3) was always commenting on how much power the car had and the immense braking that it could accomplish. A lot of times he was telling me to brake earlier than I could have because that is where he would have started braking in his E36.
Just to put a capper on the whole deal, the only problem I had was with the driver, me. The car is much more capable than I am comfortable with, and it will take me a long time to get comfortable with the power/handling/braking.
And before any of you start saying, "see, the STi rules the track!" I was passed by 2 E36 M3's who were blindinly fast. *sigh*
I never did get a chance to play around more with the settings, so I have only driven the STi on AUTO and LOCK...in retrospect, I should have dialed it back a little bit to see what that would do, but hey...that's what the next track is for, right?
I only ran LOCK the 2nd track day, once I knew my way around the track, etc, etc...
---------------
additional posts: (confusion about which car ran what)
A) My instructor: E36 M3 (A's car)
B) Me: STi (B's car)
C) Another instructor: E46 M3 (C's car)
B&C rode together in the E46 M3. C was driving
B&C rode together in the STi. C was driving again. (C has driven the STi before)
A&B rode together in the STi. B was driving. A was instructing.
A&B rode together in the E36 M3. I thought the E36 was slow when driving in the car.
Does that help? I don't know what the laptime of the E36 was, but I could definately feel that it was running slower laps.
The STi ran 1:39 lap times, the E46 ran 1:41 lap times. The E36 I didn't get to time it.
hope that helps!
--------original post---------------
I thought I would chime in here because I have had experience in both a E46 M3 SMG & a STi on a racetrack.
It is a pretty good comparison, as it was the same driver, on the same course, at the same time. The instructor (not my instructor) had a M3 and I had the STi. I was a passenger both time, as the instructor had driven the STi a couple of times before. The format was 3 laps in the M3, jump out of the car, and then 5 laps in the STi right away. probably 3 minutes between the end of the M3 laps and the start of the STi laps. Both stock tires. stock vehicles.
My impressions:
The M3 is FAST...the smooth power delivery and it corners really well and brakes like a monster. Obviously this was the instructors car and he was very familiar with it's limits. I had been driving my STi all day and the M3 didn't really give up anything in any area of driving (accel, braking, turning). I did feel like it was a little more connected with the road, a little bit more responsive to steering inputs. A more 'connected' feel to the road than the STi. Overall, the experience in the M3 made me want to get one someday...they're great cars. Kind of like a refined experience...enter the turn right, and it would carve it's way out of the turn with precision. yum.
The STi on the other hand was what I would call the 'american monster'. Acceleration-wise, it was even with the M3, although not as smooth in the power delivery, which is to be expected. I was checking the speed at the end of the straightaways just before braking, and both times, the STi was neck and neck with the M3 (1 mph difference usually. occasionally 2-3 when the instructor overcooked the turn leading to the straighaway.) Brake wise I felt the STi was better in braking than the M3. i.e. I was thrown forward more in the STi than I was in the M3. Not by much, but enough for me to notice. Handling is where the difference was at. While the M3 was all about 'smooth, smooth, smooth' and felt like it was gobbling up speeds at a fast rate, the STi was all about 'just chuck it into the corner and power out of the turn, cause you have POWER' It just seemed a lot more brash than refined. The connection to the road in the STi wasn't quite as close as the M3 was. With the M3, you had a intimate connection with the road. With the STi, you still had that connection, but it was muffled somewhat. The place where the STi excels was in the track-out...here is where the STi really just pulled itself out of the corner with frightening authority...much more so than the M3. So after a couple of laps, you could really come out of the turns a bit faster than the M3, even though the turn may not have been as smooth.
All this being said? The instructor said it this way. "I really like the M3. I also really like the STi. The first time I got into the STi after my M3, I dropped 2 seconds off my lap time. The STi just powers itself out of turns so quickly and easily that you can get on the gas a lot earlier than you can the M3."
Oh yes, the DCCD setting was set at LOCK. Both me and the instructor found this to be the best setting for us. With the DCCD in Auto, I felt like the car was driving and I wasn't. i.e. I wanted to rotate the car and in LOCK it was easier to do that vs. AUTO. With LOCK I felt more connected to the road and had more fun. I had AUTO on for the first couple of track sessions and was doing really well, but after I turned it to LOCK, I ended up going much faster around the track. I guess if you were a professional driver or a better driver than me, then AUTO would be faster, but I don't know. I'm just giving you the instructors and my experience.
All in all, MY instructor (who has a E36 M3) was always commenting on how much power the car had and the immense braking that it could accomplish. A lot of times he was telling me to brake earlier than I could have because that is where he would have started braking in his E36.
Just to put a capper on the whole deal, the only problem I had was with the driver, me. The car is much more capable than I am comfortable with, and it will take me a long time to get comfortable with the power/handling/braking.
And before any of you start saying, "see, the STi rules the track!" I was passed by 2 E36 M3's who were blindinly fast. *sigh*
I never did get a chance to play around more with the settings, so I have only driven the STi on AUTO and LOCK...in retrospect, I should have dialed it back a little bit to see what that would do, but hey...that's what the next track is for, right?
I only ran LOCK the 2nd track day, once I knew my way around the track, etc, etc...---------------
additional posts: (confusion about which car ran what)
A) My instructor: E36 M3 (A's car)
B) Me: STi (B's car)
C) Another instructor: E46 M3 (C's car)
B&C rode together in the E46 M3. C was driving
B&C rode together in the STi. C was driving again. (C has driven the STi before)
A&B rode together in the STi. B was driving. A was instructing.
A&B rode together in the E36 M3. I thought the E36 was slow when driving in the car.
Does that help? I don't know what the laptime of the E36 was, but I could definately feel that it was running slower laps.
The STi ran 1:39 lap times, the E46 ran 1:41 lap times. The E36 I didn't get to time it.
hope that helps!
