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Discussion Starter #1
DO NOT buy anything from JIC USA

Their customer service is unimaginably bad. If you get a bad part from them you are S.O.L. their policy is no return no mater what. You can send it back for repair or replacement and if they can't easily fix it, you are out of luck.

I want everyone to know so you won't get burned like I did. I am going to join every car forum that JIC sells products for and let the world know.

If you are interested, here it what happened:

I bought a JIC-Magic FLTA2 coilover suspension kit for my 2002 Acura RSX last June. The front left strut would not stay tight and back out every couple days. After several phone calls, e-mails, and digital photo's to Ben at JIC USA he finally agreed to send me a USED replacement locknut. Getting the replacement locknut was like pulling teeth. I had to pull the entire strut off, disassemble it and have the car re-aligned in order to replace the lock nut.

The strut would still not stay tight so I tried using Lock-Tite Blue. After that failed, Ben asked that I pull the strut off again and send it to them after the Sema trade show. I waited and called right before shipping it FedEx to expedite the process and make sure they could get right on it. Along with the parts I included a letter suggesting the problem appeared to be too much free play between the strut and the lower bracket and that thin locknut could not hold it tight.

After JIC USA received the parts and sat on it for two weeks Ben told me they had fixed it by surfacing the top of the lower bracket so the locknut would seat better. I told him that I was concerned that, that alone would not fix it and if he sent it back to me and it was still loosening up I would be furious and was going to expect a full refund and reimbursement for the three alignments, the shipping, and all the labor. He said we would talk about that later. Three weeks after shipping it to them, I got the parts back.

While installing the “repaired” left strut, I checked the right side. The locknut seemed tight by hand, but when I rocked the wheel I felt it move. I could see the strut rocking in the lower bracket. I used the spanner wrench to tighten it and the nut turned, so I kept tightening it, expecting it to stop turning. It did not stop turning, the nut stripped. Inspection of the stripped locknut revealed that only the tips of the threads were sheared off. This could only happen if either the nut was too big or the strut/damper body was too small. I called Ben with this information and he told me it is impossible to strip the locknut and refused to replace it. He did offer to sell me a replacement, however.

After driving it for a couple days I rechecked the left side, the side they fixed. Sure enough it was loose, I tightened it again, drove the car and it was loose by the next day.

After this much trouble you would think they would be willing to replace them or take them back and refund my money. Well, you would be wrong like I was. They are willing to SELL you replacement parts, but no replacements, no refunds, no returns, no reimbursement for shipping parts back to them, no help, no exceptions...NOTHING.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I decided to give John Kaneda, the owner of JIC, a chance to make things right before I through off the gloves and took it to the street, just in case Ben was acting without authority. Here is what happened…

I have been calling JIC and asking to talk to the owner, John Kaneda for the last couple days. Ben has answered the phone every time, recognizes my voice and tells me that John is not in. Today after I said “I’ll call back later” Ben said, and I quote, "I talked to John and told him that you wanted to talk to him and he said you could talk to me, I don't want to talk to customers" end quote. I could not believe what I heard, so I repeated “John said he does not want to talk to customers” and Ben said “yes”.

That is the most amazing display of a lack of customer service or concern I have heard in my life.
 

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You gonna take 'em to small claims court, then?
 

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Small claims court is the way to go. And get SEMA involved. Write them, call them, whatever. Get them involved, they can help add pressure to the vendor.
 

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I'm with Toy, definitely get SEMA involved. If they want to F with you, you should F with them. I'd go for the juggular, theres nothing I hate more than being taken advantage of.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I filed a formal complaint with the BBB. I also checked to see if there were others and I was not alone. Seems JIC USA has made a few people unhappy.

I have also started the small claims court process. I am trying to time it so the court date would be during one of my trips to SoCal. I live in Denver, but would have to go to court in L.A.. Most of my family lives in SoCal and I have a 6 month old son. If my parents had it their way I would stay there until my son was old enough to talk back.
 

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Maybe we need to remind them what happened last time someone tried to bend the little guy over...

*cough*Mark Mitsubishi*cough*

:lol:
 

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It is not our policy to post in forums since it is our policy that our relationships with customers are private. However, since Todd Shusterman has already posted in numerous forums complaining about our “bad” customer service, there is no more privacy issue.

First, I would like to lay out the facts from our position. Mr. Shusterman contacted us a while back regarding a loose locking nut for a lower bracket. Our policy is, as with any other manufacturer, is to determine if the part in question is a defect on our part. In order to expedite a solution, we had asked Mr. Shusterman to provide pictures of the problems he was facing. No pictures were ever sent. OK fine. As a company we try to stand behind our product so we went ahead and sent him a tested replacement for the locking nut. After 1 month, Mr. Shusterman again contacted us and said that he recently replaced the locking nut. He claims the recently replaced locking nut was again having the same problem. We asked for another picture. Mr. Shusterman could not provide us with any pictures so the only solution was for him to send us the whole damper. Upon inspection, we found a dirty damper covered with some kind of grease inconsistent with our damper materials. Once cleaned off, the body of the damper had some thread-locking compound on the aluminum locking nut. Remember using thread-locking compound on aluminum is not a good idea. It will freeze up the aluminum to metal contact. Upon further inspection our technician found damage to the knob adjustment. We assumed there was some trauma to the knob adjustment since the knob was missing some bearings inside and was not in one piece.

We ended up servicing the entire damper providing a new adjustment knob and a new locking nut. All free of charge. Clearly the above item was not damaged due to a manufacturing defect but from either a road hazard or an incorrect installation. Because of the complexity of our systems we only recommend installation be done by professionals or someone in our dealer network. Again we would like to stress that these coilovers are not your standard gas struts with springs. These coilovers have much more parts with more exotic materials and care and precision must be provided when installing these units.

As a company we have committed ourselves to provide customer service as one of our highest priorities. When Mr. Shusterman’s situation came up we had to determine if this is a manufacturer’s defect or just an isolated incident. The fact that this was the only time we’ve heard of a locking nut loosening repeatedly only points to the fact that this was NOT in fact a manufacturer’s defect. By this we find that we have gone far and beyond normal customer service.

With this reply, we hope that now you will be able to pass your own judgment about our customer service.

Regards,


The Management
JIC-USA
 

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I still think that if this was the real case, instead of just pushing off the customer, you could of at least talk to the guy and tell him flat out on the phone. instead, you chose to say "I dont talk to customers"

JIC-USA said:
It is not our policy to post in forums since it is our policy that our relationships with customers are private. However, since Todd Shusterman has already posted in numerous forums complaining about our “bad” customer service, there is no more privacy issue.

First, I would like to lay out the facts from our position. Mr. Shusterman contacted us a while back regarding a loose locking nut for a lower bracket. Our policy is, as with any other manufacturer, is to determine if the part in question is a defect on our part. In order to expedite a solution, we had asked Mr. Shusterman to provide pictures of the problems he was facing. No pictures were ever sent. OK fine. As a company we try to stand behind our product so we went ahead and sent him a tested replacement for the locking nut. After 1 month, Mr. Shusterman again contacted us and said that he recently replaced the locking nut. He claims the recently replaced locking nut was again having the same problem. We asked for another picture. Mr. Shusterman could not provide us with any pictures so the only solution was for him to send us the whole damper. Upon inspection, we found a dirty damper covered with some kind of grease inconsistent with our damper materials. Once cleaned off, the body of the damper had some thread-locking compound on the aluminum locking nut. Remember using thread-locking compound on aluminum is not a good idea. It will freeze up the aluminum to metal contact. Upon further inspection our technician found damage to the knob adjustment. We assumed there was some trauma to the knob adjustment since the knob was missing some bearings inside and was not in one piece.

We ended up servicing the entire damper providing a new adjustment knob and a new locking nut. All free of charge. Clearly the above item was not damaged due to a manufacturing defect but from either a road hazard or an incorrect installation. Because of the complexity of our systems we only recommend installation be done by professionals or someone in our dealer network. Again we would like to stress that these coilovers are not your standard gas struts with springs. These coilovers have much more parts with more exotic materials and care and precision must be provided when installing these units.

As a company we have committed ourselves to provide customer service as one of our highest priorities. When Mr. Shusterman’s situation came up we had to determine if this is a manufacturer’s defect or just an isolated incident. The fact that this was the only time we’ve heard of a locking nut loosening repeatedly only points to the fact that this was NOT in fact a manufacturer’s defect. By this we find that we have gone far and beyond normal customer service.

With this reply, we hope that now you will be able to pass your own judgment about our customer service.

Regards,


The Management
JIC-USA
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I see a lot of words, but no real argument or defense. I am not sure why you keep saying I didn't send photo's, I still have a couple of the e-mails with the files attached 8/29 subject: Problems with my FLTA2 and subject: Problems with my FLTA2 Part 2. I have some more as well, but I am at work and they are on my home computer.

The adjusting knob is perfectly straight and has no marks from damage (I have it in my hand right now). I noticed that it no longer clicked when adjusted and that should be a warrantee issue. Yes, kudos' to JIC for fixing that, thank you, thank you very much.

"Remember using thread-locking compound on aluminum is not a good idea. It will freeze up the aluminum to metal contact". I did try Loctite Blue in a desperate attempt to keep my front wheels from flopping all over the place. The purpose of Loctite is to "freeze up" the contact that is why it is called a thread locker. FYI, Aluminum is metal, did you mean the aluminum to steel contact? Last point on this topic, anodized aluminum is not the same a raw aluminum, in case you were concerned about the chemical reaction or bond of the Loctite to aluminum.

"With this reply, we hope that now you will be able to pass your own judgment about our customer service."
Yes, please do. Also take all the other posts into consideration. Some of the forums have quite a lot of horror stories. It seems MOST people fall into one of two categories. Those without complaints and those who have had to deal with JIC USA with warrantee issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
One more thought. I am very happy to see you respond. It shows that we got your attention and perhaps something good will come out of it. I have heard from one person who feels you took care of them yesterday and that may have been because of the press you are getting. It is a start, keep it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just read over JIC's response again and found the problem. This paragraph sums it up.

"The fact that this was the only time we’ve heard of a locking nut loosening repeatedly only points to the fact that this was NOT in fact a manufacturer’s defect. By this we find that we have gone far and beyond normal customer service."

They assumed that because the problem I am having was not the norm, It could not possibly have been a manufacturer’s defect. He actually called it a FACT... twice, that is a huge assumption and they obviously had their minds made up. I was doomed from the start for having a problem they do not see every day. If what I received was "far and beyond normal customer service" All the rest of you guys are really in for it.
 

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Hello Everyone,

It was certainly our intention to stay out of this thread for various reasons, however, we came to conclusion that presenting a dealer's opinion might add value to the discussion.

One of our first priorities at SGP is to sincerely focus on the customer. Obviously, nowadays, people can take this in any direction, but we hope to prove it over the long term.

We feel very unfortunate that this whole issue that DC5Denver is going through has hit the Internet and spread so rapidly. From the consumer's perspective, it is certainly a wonderful tool, and for manufacturers and dealers it can go the same way for the worse or good of it. We certainly wish and hope that JIC-USA takes care of this customer and becomes more consistent with their dealings with the customer base as no one makes any money by selling one time. All of us are in this for the long-term and we all need loyal customers. To be able to achieve that status we have to earn it, and first we need to be loyal to our customers.

However unfotunate DC5Denver's dealings with JIC-USA has been, we also would like to say that we will continue our relationship with JIC-USA as it has been since our inception. Granted we are one of their smaller dealers, but we have had a good relationship technically and business-wise. Furthermore, we truly believe in their products' quality and effectiveness; such that our own development vehicle will shortly be carrying JIC FLTA2-RS units and our lives on tracks will literally depend on the performance of these units.

As a general suggestion, this may or may not apply in DC5Denver's situation, we believe it is in the customer's best interest to deal directly with the dealer that the unit is purchased from in case of any problems. It should be the dealer's responsibility to be the advocate for the customer, and being the firts-line of communications in explaining any issues regarding any products purchased to the manufacturer. For this reason, it is important to purchase your products from reputable dealers that you trust that can act on your behalf in case of problems. Many people go for the cheapest dealer, thinking they are buying into a brand name and all dealers are equal. But, I can tell you first-hand that it truly takes a little more than just putting product pictures and slapping a price tag to be a dealer; especially for brand name products; such as JIC.

Additionally, I would like stress the issue of installations. From what I gather following DC5Denver's messages across the Internet, he is quite mechanically inclinde and experienced when it comes to all things automotive; so this probably does not apply to him. However for less experienced customers, I would like to highly recommend professional installation shops. Especially with coilover systems as complex as JIC, TEIN, and Cusco units. They require know-how and experience. Do not cut corners short and do it at home if you don't have the experience or take to a corner shop who has never worked with these units. Believe me there is a good reason we take our own car to Hillmuth, they know more than we do when it comes to all the little nuiances of installing a complex components and they deserve their labor rates; we happy pay it to them. Suspension systems are one of the most important components on the vehicle, a failure in the right circumstances may truly be chatastrophic.

DC5Denver - we sincerely hope that your issues are taken care of at the earliest, and at the same time, we wish and hope that JIC-USA increases their customer focus for all of our sakes.

Sincerely,

Fatih Selekler
SEL Ground Performance
www.selgp.com
(301) 515-0540
 

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Recommended SoCal Alignment Shop: Lucent Motors

I am definitely disappointed in JIC-USA's response. They make too many assumptions that they accept as fact. Their first assumption is that they are perfect and could no way be the cause of the problem. This is evident by the fact that they are not trying to determine what the problem is, but trying to show that they aren't the source of the problem. Second, they assume that the thread-locking compound was applied before the problem surfaced (it looks like they are trying to blame the whole problem on DC5Denver's installation). But, if DC5Denver applied the Loctite Blue AFTER the problem was already occurring, then that cannot be the source of the problem. Third, they assume that just because this part failure hasn't occurred before, then it can't be their fault. This is just unintelligent thinking.

I work on flight-critical computers. The failure rate of these computers is required to be lower than 10^-6, and it's usually lower than 10^-9. Even at that low of a failure rate, we still have failures. When we have a failure, we don't just throw our hands up and say, "well, this has never happened before, so it can't be our fault." We research the fault, try to reproduce it, and fix it so it won't happen again. Apparently, JIC-USA isn't interested in any of that; they are only interested in trying to show that it is not their fault.
 
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