Just received that email. I wonder what kind of power gains were talking vs stage 2. Looking forward to some reviews.

 

Injectors, stumble fix, fuel pump... Don't think it gives any power unless they up the boost on the stg 3 ots msp... I'm assuming there will be one since the load compensation tables will have to be accommodated

 

Right out of COBB Map Notes:

Peak Gains

Stage1+SF 93 +7% HP / +23% TQ
Stage2 93 +3.5% HP / +29% TQ
Stage3 93 +24% HP / +40% TQ


Maximum Gains

Stage1+SF 93 +24% HP at 4400 RPM / +28% TQ at 3800 RPM
Stage2 93 +29% HP at 4400 RPM / +34% TQ at 3800 RPM
Stage3 93 +68% HP at 3630 RPM / +68% TQ at 3630 RPM

 

Slightly disappointed they chose the 750cc injectors, but if it works for what I'm assuming their Stage 4 would be (adding their 20G turbo), good enough I suppose.

Not bad gains at all.

 

Note they're already out of stock as well. Cobb's notorious for that but this seems like a very well put together package. $4k for ~70whp? Agreed, not bad at all.

 

Not sure why everyone thinks this is a value. With the sales other vendors have, you can definitely get more power for the same money, while giving your car more headroom with 1000cc injectors vs the ones in this kit and getting a protune vs an ots

 

You can get a better package else where. But on the other hand someone did the research and is warranting all the parts. I would like to research everything and learn and someone wants to just buy. But I agree a protune on this setup would make the most. Maybe one day Cobb will offer tunes for stage3 and up. If they did I'd consider the package.

 

That's what I was debating as well. I'm stage 2 right now, and for $500 I could get a protune vs $1350 for the extra's I would need for the Cobb stage 3.

 

Buy a pump, injectors, and pro tune - Go E85 and put these Stage 3 numbers to shame AND run safer.

 

Except when E85 is only available at one station 25 miles away.

anyone know if you can still maintain the power increase from this stage 3 kit if you eliminate the exhaust, intake, air box, and turbo heat shield? personally, I do not like the noise characteristics of the intake and aftermarket exhausts. the stock exhaust sounds good enough and the aftermarket intakes make annoying hiss sounds.

no not the downpipe. Just wondering if the stock catback and intake really is restrictive. the car sounds good stock. don't need it to hiss and burb with aftermarket kiddie parts.

The heat shield isn't "required" per se but if you have to retain your stock heat shield it must be cut to accommodate the new downpipe.

The intake and exhaust are essential to the enhanced flow characteristics that result in the improved power figures. So yes, the "aftermarket kiddie parts" are requisite for producing more power.

There is the possible caveat based on some actual empirical evidence that the cat-back portion of the exhaust doesn't necessarily yield the type of power that would warrant its inclusion, but generally speaking you're likely in the minority with the subjective view that the stock exhaust sounds better than the cobb exhaust.

It's always arguable that you could take different paths to get to the same point, and which is better- hell, I took these same steps through IAG months ago and have no regrets... But what Cobb has done is give a clear path forward and made it as easy as possible to unlock a lot more potential from this car, and for a reasonable price. It seems there will always be people who strongly dislike Cobb; still not sure exactly why.

It's not like they're asking $4000 for a cat-back.

 

anyone know if you can still maintain the power increase from this stage 3 kit if you eliminate the exhaust, intake, air box, and turbo heat shield? personally, I do not like the noise characteristics of the intake and aftermarket exhausts. the stock exhaust sounds good enough and the aftermarket intakes make annoying hiss sounds.

 

anyone know if you can still maintain the power increase from this stage 3 kit if you eliminate the exhaust, intake, air box, and turbo heat shield? personally, I do not like the noise characteristics of the intake and aftermarket exhausts. the stock exhaust sounds good enough and the aftermarket intakes make annoying hiss sounds.

Eliminate the exhaust as in the catback? You can't eliminate the DP, obviously, nor could you eliminate the intake and use their OTS map for Stage 3. You would need a protune and you would be down some power from the lack of intake.

 

All the part that are mentioned in the kit are required to work with the OTS Map (possibly minus catback).

 

I would never do an OTS map. it would be properly dyno tuned and I would look for power increase in the default upper rpm band only. it is pointless to just force the power band only to the left because the gearing keeps you from 4k to redline, and that is what OTS maps do, from what I can see.

 

no not the downpipe. Just wondering if the stock catback and intake really is restrictive. the car sounds good stock. don't need it to hiss and burb with aftermarket kiddie parts.

 

On my protune I have an intake but have the SPT exhaust. You could see the flow getting restricted by the TQ numbers.. You can make make improvements with the stock stuff via a protune just restricting yourself.

 

On my protune I have an intake but have the SPT exhaust. You could see the flow getting restricted by the TQ numbers.. You can make make improvements with the stock stuff via a protune just restricting yourself.

how much is the restriction, if you know? I assume the restrictions are actually artificial because those intakes aren't immune from heat soak. so if you have that fancy looking turbo heat shield and the fancy looking airbox and air filter and you sit there in the drag strip idling the car inching forward waiting for your turn to go, the heat soak will be the same as the stock intake. so the only thing I see happening is the car pulling a bunch of timing when you start the race since it is more aggressively tuned for the fancy looking intakes.

I don't need the silly loud noise levels from the aftermarket catback exhausts. if I ever put an exhaust it would be the Subaru STi exhaust.

 

intake makes good power on these cars. I'd consider getting the cobb intake with the heatshield / box so you can lower the intake volume. Then get rid of the intake sound tube.

 

I was under the assumption that the stock intake was not restrictive and that if you just installed an intake and tuned for it there would be no gains.

 

What about the same package includes an UEL header instead of the cobb catback? Will I gain more hp and tq all the way from low to high-end? Or the stock catback is restrictive on high-end.

 

This thread is getting out of hand.



Can't talk about a "package" with UEL; generally when talking "package" there's an associated OTS map. There's been no precedent for an OTS map with any sort of UEL, and no reason to think there ever will be. The concept of a "package", gentlemen, is that it's a predetermined list of parts to be used WITH AND ONLY WITH the provided OTS map that will get you to an expected power output. Usually a protune wouldn't be part of that equation... and the catback and UEL will alter the flow characteristics vastly differently. Basically, the UEL is pre-cat the cat-back is, well... post-cat. A catback doesn't require a tune because it's downstream from any sensors the engine cares about. A UEL most absolutely will require a tune.

That said the evidence displayed around the forums with actual dyno sheets from known tuners implies the cat-back isn't that restrictive at all on these cars. So if you're looking to add a UEL to the rest of this package excluding the cat-back and get it tuned, you'd probably be fine. Might want to consult a tuner about the 725 injectors though- my thoughts are they'd be ok with just adding a UEL but I'm just some dipshit on the forums...

I've also read that Cobb just turned up the boost to "show" there are gains, but people went to a tuner with the intake and nothing was gained.

I've read that Kim Jong-Un rides a unicorn into battle. We're looking for empirical evidence, not rampant vendor gerrymandering.

i am a picky bastard, i really am. the main reason why i have not considered modding (besides warranty) is because of the power band not increasing in a linear fashion.

i do not want more torque than HP, which is typically seen with modding. i want to walk into a tuner shop and tell them not to alter the sound of my car at all and increase the default power curve further while still keeping the default power curve style....something that we would find in what Subaru would likely do if they themselves tuned the engine (like they actually did with the new ecu they put in the new models).

OTS maps just push the power leftwards so there is massive torque gains down low to mid range but nose dive after that. this is why they feel faster on the street. but at the track there is no gain because the default power band has not really been increased. in fact on a racing application with OTS maps i would be worried about timing being pulled up top because the mod is trying to force something there when it should not.

plus again about the heat soak with the fancy-looking intakes; i do not want a tune for "perfect" air intake temps. in other words i don't want to be the guy that says "oh i have to wait 5 hours for this to cool before i can race you", because the tune will be pulling timing / detonating up top in a crazy fashion if i don't.

uh... there's no real other way to put this... but you're coming off as stupid right now. Lots of guesswork going on in your mind without any real-world experience or even understanding to back it up. I suggest the best way for you to move forward with your thoughts on modding, is to actually experience the difference firsthand. Ask someone at a meet to take you for a spin or something... because there's a tremendous difference between looking at lines on a graph and feeling how that translates to the driving experience. My car is a night and day difference from when it was stock- but the dyno graph doesn't tell the whole story. Yes, the car feels stronger from beginning to end, and the "ricer mods" got me there!

Another idea for some real-world evidence would be with some guys chiming in with some before-and-after 1/4 mile e.t.'s. I saw a build thread somewhere where a guy did a great job at that, but I can't remember who it was. If I recall correctly, he was running deep into the 12s at stage 2; these things run MAYBE high 12s stock with an exceptional driver- probably more like low 13s.

I spent less than that kit buying stuff individually and have the equivalent of that stuff or better plus 1000cc injectors, ELH, fuel rails and fuel lines, and Aeromotive FPR. All for around the same price.

Right, but you're still not getting it; it's coming as a package deal without the requirement to take it to a tuner. I'm sure you could get cigarettes cheaper buying in bulk, but that doesn't do you much good when you're in the middle of a nic fit and there's a 7-11 across the street.

 

I've also read that Cobb just turned up the boost to "show" there are gains, but people went to a tuner with the intake and nothing was gained.

 

i am a picky bastard, i really am. the main reason why i have not considered modding (besides warranty) is because of the power band not increasing in a linear fashion.

i do not want more torque than HP, which is typically seen with modding. i want to walk into a tuner shop and tell them not to alter the sound of my car at all and increase the default power curve further while still keeping the default power curve style....something that we would find in what Subaru would likely do if they themselves tuned the engine (like they actually did with the new ecu they put in the new models).

OTS maps just push the power leftwards so there is massive torque gains down low to mid range but nose dive after that. this is why they feel faster on the street. but at the track there is no gain because the default power band has not really been increased. in fact on a racing application with OTS maps i would be worried about timing being pulled up top because the mod is trying to force something there when it should not.

plus again about the heat soak with the fancy-looking intakes; i do not want a tune for "perfect" air intake temps. in other words i don't want to be the guy that says "oh i have to wait 5 hours for this to cool before i can race you", because the tune will be pulling timing / detonating up top in a crazy fashion if i don't.

 

Have you ever driven a stage 2 STI? Because the top end in a stage 2 is worlds better than stock or stage 1. I agree the OTS tunes arent very good but get a protune and there is way more power everywhere.

 

I spent less than that kit buying stuff individually and have the equivalent of that stuff or better plus 1000cc injectors, ELH, fuel rails and fuel lines, and Aeromotive FPR. All for around the same price.

 

Cobb offers a proven upgrade path. It's not cheap, but all the parts will work together. If your not in a location where there is a local tuner, this maybe your only option. Cobb offers very good OTS tunes, but there are greater benefits with a protune, but that may not be an option for some Subaru owners.

So where is the Stage 4 kit with their 20G turbo?

 

Take a look at the HP and to TQ curves of Stock vs Stage 1+ and 2. Torque and HP power band is increased through out the entire power band. it is not moved to the left/right as you have mentioned.




And here is the Stage 3 vs Stock. Substantial gains through out the entire power band.

 

Take a look at the HP and to TQ curves of Stock vs Stage 1+ and 2. Torque and HP power band is increased through out the entire power band. it is not moved to the left/right as you have mentioned.


[URL="https://static.cobbtuning.com/cobbtuningweb/site/images/accessport/dyno_graphs/Subaru_STI_15b.jpg"]Image Link
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And here is the Stage 3 vs Stock. Substantial gains through out the entire power band.

[URL="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/lennyk1313/2015%20STI/Screen%20Shot%202015-06-26%20at%2011.56.49%20PM_zpskd7bffe4.png"]Image Link
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yeah I guess it does depend on what dyno chart you are looking at.

this is more in line with what I am talking about;

there is more power for sure but there is that nose-dive in power I am arguing. I just don't like the feeling of the car running out of breath at the end, my 4th generation firebirds were like this back in the heydays. my 91 c4 ZR-1, though, was not. that pulled hard all the way to red line. the new STi reminds me of that ZR-1 power curve and would like it to stay that way.

 

I am not sure I understand you. You are getting quicker spool than stock, and you are getting a lot more HP and TQ form 3k-6K RPM. Where is the nose dive? After 6200RPM stock turbo runs out of breath, this is what you see. If you want top end you need to go with a different turbo upgrade and supporting mods.

 

I am not sure I understand you. You are getting quicker spool than stock, and you are getting a lot more HP and TQ form 3k-6K RPM. Where is the nose dive? After 6200RPM stock turbo runs out of breath, this is what you see. If you want top end you need to go with a different turbo upgrade and supporting mods.

the stock car pulls hard all the way to 6700 redline and it does not nose dive. you would be seeing about 700+rpm of nose-diving with a tune that focuses 3k-6k. that is what the chart I posted shows.

there is quicker spool up at 3k rpm I get that, but on a stock car you would not punch it at that low of rpm. you would be 4200 rpm and there will not be any turbo lag when you floor it and you can take the power band all the way to redline.

 

A pro-tune and ELH netted me 19whp and 37whp over a stage II on 91oct..I am just saying. This stage III is for those that like simplicity

 

I believe what argh69 meant by nosedive is the declining torque curve which I am also not a fan of. Yes, the sti does produce more power throughout the whole rpm range with the mods but the feeling of the power goes down in a obvious way after a strong initial pull is not what everyone likes.

For instance I like how a Honda Tyre R or S2000 or RX-8 has a very flat torque curve when the power comes on (Yes I already know they are slower car). It does make the car feel slow but that's how some people prefer their cars to pull.

 

Figured I'd add some credible info on the stage 3 results from a baseline Dyno at P&L before a Protune by JRTuned.

My car is a 2016 Sti Base. 2000 miles. My mods are Cobb stage 3 Package with Tomei Catback, Grimmspeed TMIC and IAG AOS, with a few other non performance mods.




Edit sorry guys I messed up, this graph is actually a JRTuned map for Cobb stage 3 package on Sport mode. Delete it if possible. I don't know how to.

 

Very nice for OTS Map. I assume this is 93 though?

 

Yep 93.