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Discussion Starter #1
Has anybody else found that some downshifts from 3rd to 2nd "go in hard"? Even if I'm just downshifting while rolling up to a light, I sometimes find that it's pretty tough to get it to go in. I occasionally experience it with 5th to 4th as well, but I think that's me fighting the gates :-(. 1st to 2nd is fine. BTW, I have 1440 miles on the car now.

Also, I used to use Redline MTL or Redline MT90 in my Turbo MR2 tranny, and boy it made the shifts smooth (where they weren't before). Anybody have any experience with Redline or similar products in the STi? I know very little about different types of diffs, etc., so I have no clue whether this stuff would even be appropriate for the STi.

Thanks,
Chris
 

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I have ruff shifting in general. But that is just my novice shifting. This is my first man. tranny. But yes even while rolling up to a light the shifts are hard. I also sometimes stall out when I have the A/C on. But that could be my driving also. :-? ANOTHER THING: sometimes I can't downshift from 2nd to 1st. Even when going pretty slow. Does anyone know of the STI having the same lock as the WRX?
 

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hey hispanics. it sounds like you just need to get better at shifting :) i used to do that stuff way back when i fristr started driving stick. not to hate on you ,but i can't beleive your learning on a $33k car . if you can get a beater or drive a freinds car i would recommend it. and downshifting from 2nd to 1st has always been hard in my prelude. i forget what the reason was(no synchro for 1st?) but try double clutching and it should slide in
 

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Regarding hard shifts.....if it's really that tough, you might ask a dealer about it. I've driven many manual cars, and this is by far the best feeling shifts of them all. With dual and triple cone synchros, you shouldn't be having trouble.

But this is all assuming you know how to drive a manual well (rev matching, double clutching with large downshifts.....)
 

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Hispanics said:
EDIT

. :-? ANOTHER THING: sometimes I can't downshift from 2nd to 1st. Even when going pretty slow. Does anyone know of the STI having the same lock as the WRX?
Perhaps one of you track oriented guys/gals can jump in here, but it's always been my understanding that you should NOT downshift to first while moving. If you're moving and need to be at that low of a speed, shouldn't you be using the clutch to modulate the power delivery while raising the rpm's, versus downshifting to first??
 

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Read the manual on optimum shift points. Since you can launch even in 2nd gear, there really is no reason to shift into 1st unless you're nearly stopped or going less than 10 mph. And it sounds like you people are granny shifting instead of rev-matching too...

My first manual tranny of my own is my current WRX, I opted not to get the STi until I knew how to drive stick, and I mean drive it well. Even before buying my car, I learned on 2 of my friends' cars that they were about to sell anyway. One of them was so beat-up and tricky that it was sometimes difficult to tell what gear you were in, the shift lever would bounce back to the middle even when in gear! My friend told me that if I could drive his car, I could drive any stick. Then at the dealership, I learned on a '99 Forrester some more before test driving my own car. Had trouble with launching but after feathering it a dozen times, I found the sweet spot. Also had trouble launching uphill.

I spent about 3 months granny-shifting until I heard about rev-matching through this forum and have been doing it ever since, and also not rolling through turns with the clutch in (yep I know that's really stupid, but I didn't know better :oops: :roll: ).

Now I do the heel-toe thing, brace myself with the dead pedal on fast cornering, and power-shift (is this the right term? where you don't press the clutch all the way to the floor?)

I wouldn't feel ready to drive an STi without a bit of experience behind a stick... :wink:
 

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mx_9 said:
Hispanics said:
EDIT

. :-? ANOTHER THING: sometimes I can't downshift from 2nd to 1st. Even when going pretty slow. Does anyone know of the STI having the same lock as the WRX?
Perhaps one of you track oriented guys/gals can jump in here, but it's always been my understanding that you should NOT downshift to first while moving. If you're moving and need to be at that low of a speed, shouldn't you be using the clutch to modulate the power delivery while raising the rpm's, versus downshifting to first??

correct, my GSR wont let me shift into first unless i revmatch.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Floormats from target

To reply: Learned on a stick, driving stick for 26 years - not a problem.

Rev-matching not an issue. The specific case I'm referring to is that you're rolling up to a light (not very fast) which you expect may change, you're in third, clutch in, not sure what gear you'll want, OK, light's green, go from 3rd to 2nd - D'OH - doesn't want to go in without a fair amount of muscle. No grind, just hard.

I would expect this 2nd to 1st, but not 3rd to 2nd. Maybe the dealer does need to look at it.

Not to invite flames, but my MR2 Turbo (with the aforementioned redline tranny fluid) shifted way smoother, all gears. Don't know why. Also, I find it hard to believe everyone gets 4th from 5th every time - that gate is a little vague, IMHO.

Chris
 

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I don't seem to have the problem with mine that you are describing. I would do like you said and take it in to the dealer.
 

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I have had problems 4-5. Although I have driven friends' and familys' sticks in the past, the STi is my first. I just figured is was the way the car is supposed to be, so I just put a bit of elbow grease behind it to make sure I'm all the way in 5th every time.

On the subject of downshifting... I am getting better at the rev-matching, but I still don't understand the concept of double-clutching? When I really want to be downshifting, I generally have my right foot on the brake. The concept of heel-toe makes sense in that I use my left foot for the clutch and the right for both brake and gas, but I get the impression from reading about it that double-clutching should somehow be easier (i.e. require less coordination). What am I missing? Does anyone have any video clips that show double-clutching? That Japanese video where they take out all the different STi's and the EVO (something motoring??) had really good clips of heel-toe. And yes, I am a visual learner.
 

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Best Motoring.

I never understood double clutching myself and don't see a reason to do it. From the descriptions I read it seems heal toe shifting is a lot easier. Seems like double clutching has extra steps in it compared to heal toe. I heal toe all the time and have not noticed any problems shifting. I know a new car will loosen up over time but if you have a real difficult time all the time I would take it to the dealer.
 

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heal toe = rev matching

Double clutching gets all the gears spinning the same speed. Not only does this make the shift easier, it takes all the wear off of the synchros. I gave a huge description of this before. If you think they are the same, you don't fully understand the process. With double clutching, you save your synchros and you can shift into any gear with butter-like ease as long as the speed is within the gear's range.

If you are trying to SHOVE gears together, that won't work. This tranny is built for great durability and isn't the quietest/smoothest/easiest tranny out there. Listen to the thing....it has a purpose. If you shift a properly operating STi transmission with respect for the dogs and synchros, there should be no problem.
 

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I've learned that downshifting is alot easier when I double clutch. Not that I do this very well but when I do, the tranny shifts into gear smoothly.
 

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cby1 said:
The specific case I'm referring to is that you're rolling up to a light (not very fast) which you expect may change, you're in third, clutch in, not sure what gear you'll want, OK, light's green, go from 3rd to 2nd - D'OH - doesn't want to go in without a fair amount of muscle. No grind, just hard.
Yeah, double clutching will help with this. 2nd gear is much lower gear than most 2nds. Readine in 2nd is 57 mph so even if you are going 25 or so the rpms are around 3k.

If not see your dealer.
 

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mx_9 said:
Perhaps one of you track oriented guys/gals can jump in here, but it's always been my understanding that you should NOT downshift to first while moving. If you're moving and need to be at that low of a speed, shouldn't you be using the clutch to modulate the power delivery while raising the rpm's, versus downshifting to first??
First, I haven't had any problem like this, but I always try to rev match (success is not always guaranteed for me, but I do try). I have had a couple instances of not wanting to go into first, but this is common with just about any car -- solution is to double clutch, more or less (clutch in, neutral, clutch out, clutch in, first, off you go). A couple times among many hundred shifts is nothing to worry about with first gear.

At the Evolution phase 3 autocross school there is a "pin cone" or what I call a pivot cone (since you pivot around it). A single cone all by its lonesome that you do a 180 around. I tried both shifting to first as well as leaving it in second. Leaving it in second was definitely the answer. While 1st did give a nice burst of acceleration coming out, it was more throttle than was really applicable, together with all the bad things about having to shift downthen up. 2nd had plenty of acceleration and was faster in general. When I did shift to first, I had no issues getting it to go in (but of course I blipped the throttle to get the revs close).

For actual track time, at the two courses I have run I don't believe I ever even shifted to second, much less first. Very different than autocross in terms of the amount of time you have to get ready, on brakes for longer, more time to do everything. Smoothness is obviously very important. What some people in autocross miss (and road racers really don't understand about autocross) is that smoothness is really important there too -- it is just much harder, and harder to recognize since the transitions are so much more rapid and extreme.

Regarding your idea of modulating the clutch, that doesn't sound good to me, though I'm no expert. I'd want the car safely in a gear. Now maybe left foot braking to keep the engine loaded, but that's not something I do yet.


cby1 said:
The specific case I'm referring to is that you're rolling up to a light (not very fast) which you expect may change, you're in third, clutch in, not sure what gear you'll want, OK, light's green, go from 3rd to 2nd - D'OH - doesn't want to go in without a fair amount of muscle. No grind, just hard.
The problem I have with this is the idea of rolling up with the clutch in. Keep it in gear. If revs drop below where you want, clutch in, blip throttle while moving to lower gear, clutch out. Sounds racey, goes in smooth, and keeps you in gear ready to accelerate when needed. The closest to this I've come recently is at the track behind someone, when I braked and changed gears, then found the guy in front of me wanted to take the corner about 10 mph slower than I thought he would (novice group), and he applied harder braking late into the corner to boot. After extra braking to avoid ramming him, my gear choice was now obviously wrong, so now I was fumbling around for the right gear. I don't recall having issues getting it into gear, but did have some with improper rev matching (leading to not smooth shift) and the 4th/6th confusion (seems to be relatively common among people new to 6 speeds -- think you're going into 4th and end up in 6th or vice-versa) a few times.
 

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My thoughts on this issue. I have had no problems getting into gears. I rev match or double clutch on ALL downshifts. I am not quite fast enough with the double clutch so sometimes I have to just blip the throttle and match revs. My feet are rather large so heel-toe is not that easy for me, need to practice that. If I do have to make an unplanned downshift and I don't get a good rev match I do find more resistance but it has never been bad.

I have also driven my GFs 93 MR2 (non turbo). I have to say that the STis gearbox is worlds better. The MR2 is very notchy and stiff. It is purely stock everything.

Hey SnowdorderWRX, can you please explain a little further what you mean here? Thanks.

"I spent about 3 months granny-shifting until I heard about rev-matching through this forum and have been doing it ever since, and also not rolling through turns with the clutch in "
 

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I tend to agree with the double-clutching solution... the guy with the issue has tons more experience than me though.

I have a Honda with a stick and it didn't like to go into 1st easily (until I learned how to put the clutch all the way in :oops: ).

So I took to downshifting to 2nd when rolling up to a light - that way if I need to start rolling again, I have enough revs to do it.

Some people think I'm nuts for not downshifting to 1st, but I think it depends on the vehicle - mine can launch no probs from 2nd so why not?

Maybe when I get a different car I will do things differently...
 

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CloNeGTS said:
I've driven many manual cars, and this is by far the best feeling shifts of them all. With dual and triple cone synchros, you shouldn't be having trouble.
Ya thats what I was thinking. This is much easier then my ///M was. I put on my Veilside 6spd shiftknob and its weighted pretty good and helps with the shifting - or at least i think so. Maybe you should try something like that?

Robert~
 
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