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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
After hours of reading and phone calls to tuning shops in colder climates around the country this is what I'm putting on my car in addition to the Cobb sf intake and access port.

Injectors
Fuel pump (both required-or you'll be running at or above 100% duty cycle)
Down pipe (I chose grimmspeed)
Ebcs (again - grimmspeed)
Dyno Tune

Ewg is a nice addition to control boost creep, but it's 1) loud and 2)expensive for something that is not needed on a stock turbo with my list of mods. It also adds a bit of power and quicker spool. Moves the graph left. However, again, not needed.

Thanks everyone for your input. I hope combined with my research and choice of parts based on that research that this helps someone in the future.
 

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I trust Chris at Surgeline. He's one of the best around who does not care about numbers as much as having your car run happy and for a long time.
 

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The only physical difference that I have personally seen is that the 15+ OEM turbo has a bigger hotside. Another member and I collaborated on this by measuring my MY11 VF48 vs his MY15 VF48 with calipers and it was a significant difference (well beyond any reasonable error between two pairs of calipers). All other measurements of the turbos were identical.

Full bolt-on stage 2 cars already run around 95% IDC, so the need for slightly bigger injectors is not uncalled for, but the pump is not really a necessity unless you're pushing a much larger set of injectors to higher IDCs. The GD STI fuel pump only flowed 145 lph and was enough to support full stage 2+ setups, so the 08+ fuel pump with its 175 lph flow should be able to handle the slightly higher flow the MY15+ sees.

EDIT: VERY VERY roughly, a typical stage 2 car tuned for 11 AFR and running around 15 psi (which is the commonly case) requires about 150 lph of fuel flow by 7k RPMs, running 20 psi (basically a situation you'll never see on the 2.5 motor) at 7K RPMs requires around 170 lph. Leaning the AFR to 11.3 drops the fueling requirements by about 5 lph, respectively.
 

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Ewg is a nice addition to control boost creep, but it's 1) loud and 2)expensive for something that is not needed on a stock turbo with my list of mods. It also adds a bit of power and quicker spool. Moves the graph left. However, again, not needed.
Boost creep is something that my tuner mentioned to me that i would have before my car was even on his dyno. I have a small amount of boost creep, and in lower gears its not noticable as the engine tachs out fast enough ya dont have time to notice. But in 4-6 gear, ya can watch the boost slowly creep up. I even had the car throw a overboost code making a pull passing a car in 4th. I didnt watch my boost and it creeped up til the brain threw a overboost code and shut me down. Haha!! Kind of embarrasing as ya start to blow by someone and the car shuts down and they pass you back by like wtf?? Hahaha! Ive only ever let it boost any where near high enough to throw the code once tho. My tuner also told me that overboost is a lot worse in our cold alaskan winters. Supposedly anytime the temp is at freezing or below i am supposed to be a lot more leery of excessive boost creep. For this reason i plan to add a ewg also with my fuel mods.
 

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Boost creep is something that my tuner mentioned to me that i would have before my car was even on his dyno. I have a small amount of boost creep, and in lower gears its not noticable as the engine tachs out fast enough ya dont have time to notice. But in 4-6 gear, ya can watch the boost slowly creep up. I even had the car throw a overboost code making a pull passing a car in 4th. I didnt watch my boost and it creeped up til the brain threw a overboost code and shut me down. Haha!! Kind of embarrasing as ya start to blow by someone and the car shuts down and they pass you back by like wtf?? Hahaha! Ive only ever let it boost any where near high enough to throw the code once tho. My tuner also told me that overboost is a lot worse in our cold alaskan winters. Supposedly anytime the temp is at freezing or below i am supposed to be a lot more leery of excessive boost creep. For this reason i plan to add a ewg also with my fuel mods.


Do you have an EBCS?
 

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Do you have an EBCS?
Not currently but that is also on my list with a bunch of other crap.. at the moment she is running great with a safe tune and i just baby her to work and back resisting the urge to spank on her too much. Ugghh! The struggle is real!! Haha! Trying to get all my parts together and do everything all at once soo i can limit dyno time/cost. My tuner is typicially booked out a couple months in advance and is also located an hour away soo i want to knock out as much as i can on my next visit. Throwing in more guages, oil pan/pickup, aos, lil chassis stiffening, brake lines/fluid, seibon cf hood, etc etc etc.. and whatever else i decide i cant live without before now and then.. haha! Also considering water/methanol injection since we have no e85 option here in ak. But need to do more research on that before i make that descision..
 

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Not currently but that is also on my list with a bunch of other crap.. at the moment she is running great with a safe tune and i just baby her to work and back resisting the urge to spank on her too much. Ugghh! The struggle is real!! Haha! Trying to get all my parts together and do everything all at once soo i can limit dyno time/cost. My tuner is typicially booked out a couple months in advance and is also located an hour away soo i want to knock out as much as i can on my next visit. Throwing in more guages, oil pan/pickup, aos, lil chassis stiffening, brake lines/fluid, seibon cf hood, etc etc etc.. and whatever else i decide i cant live without before now and then.. haha! Also considering water/methanol injection since we have no e85 option here in ak. But need to do more research on that before i make that descision..


Right on. Being in Canada, is the reason I went with an EBCS for Stage 2. It completely controlled my boost creep. I already knew others locally had the issue. Highly recommend an EBCS if you're in cold climates 8 months of the year, lol.
 

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Right on. Being in Canada, is the reason I went with an EBCS for Stage 2. It completely controlled my boost creep. I already knew others locally had the issue. Highly recommend an EBCS if you're in cold climates 8 months of the year, lol.
Awesome, good to know. Yea, i am currently in limbo from buying a car that i didnt realize was a stage 2+ car, but had the downpipe and cobb airbox removed before being traded in. But still had the cobb stage2+ tune on the car. Soo i resolved that situation and its back to a stage2+ now with a protune, and now i just want to make her a lil more safe as a daily. Knowing what i know now, i would have chosen a new sti over buying into the shitshow that i did. Haha! I did a fair amount of research before buying my used low mile sti, but i quickly learned i didnt do enough. Luckily i resolved my situation before anything catastrophic could happen. Love the car tho!! :)

To the OP, sorry for the hijack! Hahaha
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I was disappointed surgeline took the hard sales route with me, and told me if I didn't do the ewg I would hurt the car. No suggestions to stay out of boost in cold weather, or perhaps go the ebcs and divorced down pipe route, and then they told me they preferred to install it themselves for a bunch of different baloney reasons.

The more receptive I was the more items I all of a sudden 'needed'

I have a half price tune at surgeline and will go check them out, get my car tuned, etc but.... I'll be going to another shop to have the initial tuning and parts install done.

Oh, and I guess the tuner over at surgeline is too busy for paying customers. I've been waiting 3 days for a return phone call or email. Nothing. Lance is not there any longer, and they are no longer a Cobb shop.
 

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The hard sales route is exactly why fueling is a "requirement" for Stage 2. I would certainly follow Shinji's advice. He knows his stuff.

Lastly, your experience and research so far would be enough for me to stay away from that tuner. If you have doubts about the level of service, trust your gut. Secondly, I highly recommend you not use multiple tuners. You're begging for a blame war if something goes wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
The hard sales route is exactly why fueling is a "requirement" for Stage 2. I would certainly follow Shinji's advice. He knows his stuff.

Lastly, your experience and research so far would be enough for me to stay away from that tuner. If you have doubts about the level of service, trust your gut. Secondly, I highly recommend you not use multiple tuners. You're begging for a blame war if something goes wrong.
Two tuners won't know the car has a tune by the other. I don't want to be disrespectful about it

Oh yes, that's another thing.... Surge line wants to charge me 150.00 for a limp mode map to get from my house to their shop.
 

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Two tuners won't know the car has a tune by the other. I don't want to be disrespectful about it

Oh yes, that's another thing.... Surge line wants to charge me 150.00 for a limp mode map to get from my house to their shop.
Sounds like a shitty shop trying to get as much money as possible, unless the limp mode map cost of $150 goes towards the actual tune. If that is the case then it makes sense that they want a deposit.

If you don't want to go to them you could try doing an online brentune but that requires a wideband sensor for them to do the tune, which adds on like another $200 unfortunately.

This also requires more work on your end to send logs and stuff though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Sounds like a shitty shop trying to get as much money as possible, unless the limp mode map cost of $150 goes towards the actual tune. If that is the case then it makes sense that they want a deposit.

If you don't want to go to them you could try doing an online brentune but that requires a wideband sensor for them to do the tune, which adds on like another $200 unfortunately.

This also requires more work on your end to send logs and stuff though.
Nope. Extra 150.00. I'm wondering if they sold me the package (ap/intake) and the half price tune assuming they could bang out a dyno tune for a well known parts package. After all, they did develop a lot of the Cobb stage packages. I came across an article on another forum from Lance Lucas that discussed the EWG and its benefits. They did extensive research on it which means they would be familiar with it and the tune. Hell I don't know ..... that's a total guess on my part.

I have a tune at another local shop whose been around with great reviews for over 10 years. I'm paying a bit more for the tune vs. surgeline but... I'm stubborn. Come at me with non-sense like surgeline did and ..... forget it. Haha.... but I still plan to get my money's worth out them. They owe me a half price tune and I'll utilize that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
you don't need injectors for only a downpipe and intake!
OK. Since you've shouted at me I've thrown out all the info collected over weeks of reading and talking to shops and tuners across the country.

Kidding of course. You are right though. They're not required but I myself would never think about a downpipe and intake without adding fuel. Neither would 99.9% of others. Then again, I wouldn't shout at others on a forum either. - Shrug*
 

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You want to place a friendly wager on 99.9% of stage 2 drivers having larger injectors? Is your car paid off - how about pinks?
 

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You want to place a friendly wager on 99.9% of stage 2 drivers having larger injectors? Is your car paid off - how about pinks?


I think he meant 99.9% of the 2015+ drivers who aren't familiar with the platform yet because the 2015+ gen is so unique and "new" so it must all be different and more powerful, just like the "all new" 2018. We tried to save him some money, and even Shinji stepped in with data he can't refute or probably doesn't understand yet. He's already made his choice. All power to him if he can afford it including paying two tuners for the same tune even if one is clearly not a good choice.
 

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I think he meant 99.9% of the 2015+ drivers who aren't familiar with the platform yet because the 2015+ gen is so unique and "new" so it must all be different and more powerful, just like the "all new" 2018. We tried to save him some money, and even Shinji stepped in with data he can't refute or probably doesn't understand yet. He's already made his choice. All power to him if he can afford it including paying two tuners for the same tune even if one is clearly not a good choice.
I hope the tuner charges him for blinker fluid as well. :rolleyes:
 

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Stage 2+ here, intake/turboback/protune. 314hp/319tq on a mustang. I am still on stock injectors and pump tho and when wfo she is at 100% duty cycle. I plan on doing a few more things in a couple months (including fuel upgrades) and will get retuned again after. Until then i am trying to refrain from spanking on her too hard, haha!
You have as much HP as I do on E85 and supporting mods. Gotta love those Mustang dynos!
 
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