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Definately some good info, i think all people that are new to their cars and are new to modifying them should read this.
 

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I guess will post here since you did not respond to my PM on Nabisco.Would like to get Protuned soon at P&L & just wanted to touch bases with you before making the apointment.Pretty sure I have whats needed as far as required mods & have a question about wastegate porting.You have stated this is needed in every STi you have tuned I believe in a different post.Is this because of the change in yearly weather or another reason?I ask because my car does not get driven from November to April.Can you tune for a 93 map & a race gas map also?Almost forgot about a E85 map as well maybe using 30%.

BTW the guide was read.
 

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Thank You.

On a monthly basis I usually have a long conversation with enthusiasts about how the current tuners are doing a huge injustice to the people paying for the tunes due to the fact that many cars out there have part throttle calibrations that truly suck. It takes money to tune a car appropriately. Cars should be fine tuned in each season to derive the correct values for the environmental tables. To have a great tune, you either need to do it yourself or to expect to pay about $500 for your WOT ProTune w/ some minor road tuning, $300 for extensive road tuning, and then another $300-$600 for road tuning in different weather conditions. JMHO. Obviously the more modded the car, the more time that needs to be spent tuning it too. A Stage 2 STI will need less time than a SR55 w/ Big MAF and larger injectors.

Some other points I wanted to touch on ...
1) The type of EM can matter (you said that it didn't). A car running AccessECU technology has the ability to run better than a UTEC'd car. This is due to the fact the AccessECU can fine tune the AVCS, pump shot, etc.
2) Somebody's car with the same mods can be faster ALSO because the 'faster' car was tuned more aggressively by a tuner looking to get numbers. The slower car may actually be the better car because it is a safer tune and will last longer.

t
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
WolfPlayer said:
Thank You.

On a monthly basis I usually have a long conversation with enthusiasts about how the current tuners are doing a huge injustice to the people paying for the tunes due to the fact that many cars out there have part throttle calibrations that truly suck. It takes money to tune a car appropriately. Cars should be fine tuned in each season to derive the correct values for the environmental tables. To have a great tune, you either need to do it yourself or to expect to pay about $500 for your WOT ProTune w/ some minor road tuning, $300 for extensive road tuning, and then another $300-$600 for road tuning in different weather conditions. JMHO. Obviously the more modded the car, the more time that needs to be spent tuning it too. A Stage 2 STI will need less time than a SR55 w/ Big MAF and larger injectors.

Some other points I wanted to touch on ...
1) The type of EM can matter (you said that it didn't). A car running AccessECU technology has the ability to run better than a UTEC'd car. This is due to the fact the AccessECU can fine tune the AVCS, pump shot, etc.
2) Somebody's car with the same mods can be faster ALSO because the 'faster' car was tuned more aggressively by a tuner looking to get numbers. The slower car may actually be the better car because it is a safer tune and will last longer.

t
1: Noted! Eventually I'm going to take the inputs given to me by credible sources and amend that document, thanks! Though, by and large, it's still application specific, and that critical selection point should be subject to the recommendation of the person selected in the tuning process (thought I mentioned that, guess I should re-visit the verbage).

2: Thus my comment that what really matters is the person behind the keyboard. EMS's in and of themselves are not the issue, or the cause of an aggressive or conservative tune... the tuner is.
 

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1: Su-weet

2: Beautiful. Key point for me: "the tuner is". The tuning community tends to stick tightly together - for good reason too. Sharing of information. However, this isn't the best thing for the customer :( (IMHO!). It's great from a sharing perspective but it still allows inferior tuners to put out unsafe and aggressive stuff. It's a fine line and I don't know what the true answer is. What I do know is that it is the tuners, and only the tuners, who are truly capable of judging another tuner. That is a weird situation. But, alas, I believe it to be a necessary action in order for the customers to be able to get the best tune. Problem is, it is hard to be a nice guy and post negative feedback about another professional tuner. Yes, this works both ways so tuners need to be prepared for the opposite (somebody finding fault with what they do).

Customers need to know who to go to for an aggressive tune, a conservative tune, a tune focused on part throttle more than WOT, etc. Some tuners are better at tuning part throttle than others. WOT is a no brainer (IMHO) - some are aggressive and some are not. The ones who are not aggressive know how to be aggressive but choose not to release a car like that (and for good reason).

There needs to be transparency and visibility. IMHO, you are a rare one who is working towards this. I also appreciate what I have seen done by you due to the non-aggressive nature compared to other tuners. For example, and I will be specific here: I would rather drive a car tuned by you (year round) then to drive a car tuned by Doug/TopSpeed. I would rather drive a car tuned by Christian from Cobb then to drive a car tuned by Tim at PDX. I could go on. But, I've now just created 2 tuners who will have issues with me but that is OK.

t
 

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Great document.... and I agree with Wolfplayer.

Without a consistent, expensive part-throttle tune, long term fuel trims WILL be integrated into the Open Loop fueling. Therefor a part-done tune will end up ruining your WOT tuning, and seriously endangering the engine.

I hope all folks who intend to modify their STi read that.
 

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Great write-up Jorge. It is the reality of a tune and the upgrading path. I personally will make every person I tune read this before I proceed from now on.
 

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EricK said:
I guess will post here since you did not respond to my PM on Nabisco.Would like to get Protuned soon at P&L & just wanted to touch bases with you before making the apointment.Pretty sure I have whats needed as far as required mods & have a question about wastegate porting.You have stated this is needed in every STi you have tuned I believe in a different post.Is this because of the change in yearly weather or another reason?I ask because my car does not get driven from November to April.Can you tune for a 93 map & a race gas map also?Almost forgot about a E85 map as well maybe using 30%.

BTW the guide was read.
No reply Jorge,guess I will go somewere else for a tune.Not trying to diss but just wondering why u wont reply to my PM's or posts.Thought it would be easier than reach ya on the phone when you might be in the middle of something.
 

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I think we should force people to read that before they start posting about engine mods:lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
EricK said:
No reply Jorge,guess I will go somewere else for a tune.Not trying to diss but just wondering why u wont reply to my PM's or posts.Thought it would be easier than reach ya on the phone when you might be in the middle of something.
A: I'm trying to keep the thread on topic. B: Please understand I get about one to two dozen PM's across about 7 different forums, and close to 40-50 emails a day. Patience is a virtue my friend...

Edit: But while I'm at it, call the shop, if I am not available, my guys up front are more then qualied to help you out.
 

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RiftsWRX said:
A: I'm trying to keep the thread on topic. B: Please understand I get about one to two dozen PM's across about 7 different forums, and close to 40-50 emails a day. Patience is a virtue my friend...

Edit: But while I'm at it, call the shop, if I am not available, my guys up front are more then qualied to help you out.
good read.

and erick he will get back to you. i sent him a pm and received a responsea few days later.
 

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I'm sure Jorge, and most good tuners days go like this:

1) Not getting near enough sleep
2) Answering 5+ cell-phone text messages and a few voicemails on the way into work
3) Get to work and see if there are any e-mail "fires" going on
4) If your first tune isn't there yet, MAYBE you can get on 1 or 2 boards and answer SOME PM's
5) Tune shows up
6) While tuning, field 30 to 50 calls from other customers
6) Plenty of tunes go until WAY too late in the afternoon or evening, making us late for dinner at the house
7) Return some of the calls on the way home
8) Eat dinner
9) TRY to answer some e-mails, until it's after bedtime
10) Hit the sack while thinking about project cars

Jorge, that Manual is AWESOME. EVERYBODY should read that.

SS
 

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Subaru of Gwinnett said:
I'm sure Jorge, and most good tuners days go like this:

1) Not getting near enough sleep
2) Answering 5+ cell-phone text messages and a few voicemails on the way into work
3) Get to work and see if there are any e-mail "fires" going on
4) If your first tune isn't there yet, MAYBE you can get on 1 or 2 boards and answer SOME PM's
5) Tune shows up
6) While tuning, field 30 to 50 calls from other customers
6) Plenty of tunes go until WAY too late in the afternoon or evening, making us late for dinner at the house
7) Return some of the calls on the way home
8) Eat dinner
9) TRY to answer some e-mails, until it's after bedtime
10) Hit the sack while thinking about project cars

Jorge, that Manual is AWESOME. EVERYBODY should read that.

SS
What is it with these tuner pity parties???

This seems to be a recurring theme from every tuner on this board. Pity me, I have to deal with calls, emails. Welcome to being a professional. Its your JOB to do this. You chose to do it. If you don't like it stay off the message boards and don't advertise. You wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for all the emails, calls, etc.

People take their cars to you like they bring themselves to a doctor for elective surgery. There is risk, they should know it, and you already know it. Know matter how much you educate them, they shouldn't and won't know as much as you. That is the nature of your field.
 

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jgheels2003 said:
What is it with these tuner pity parties???
No one asked for your take on things. Take your soap box elsewhere.

...and for the record, no, answering calls at 2am is not part of a tuner's job. You pay them to reprogram your ECU, that's it.
 

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jgheels2003 said:
What is it with these tuner pity parties???
I was just trying to explain why sometimes it takes a few days to find a MINUTE to electronically get back with a customer...

I'm not asking for pity, I'm just trying to explain to a member of this forum why good tuners are often hard to get a hold of.

Erick had asked about why he wasn't getting a response from Jorge. Erick hadn't wanted to call and bother him, but was voicing concern about customer service. Jorge has P&L there ready to answer the phones if any customer needs quick service. I answer my cell phone unless I'm REALLY covered up, and I try to return calls within a few hours...

I often get calls from customers that are frustrated with all the local tuners being booked out for a week or three. I usually tell them that a tuner worth going to generally has a wait. If they're sitting there just waiting on your call, they aren't doing much business.

I'm personally just enjoying finally having wi-fi that reaches the dyno :D Now I can try to follow up between pulls and such...

SS
 
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