[hyperion]

When I read this, I almost blew milk out my nose:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=33562

Enjoy it while we can, North America. The article says 2007, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen earlier. We'll be king of the road for about a year or two...

Also, it's interesting to see Subaru confirm that their 6-speed tranny has problems. This backs up a lot of what the EVO board guys have been saying, and does not bode well for modifications. I'll still get one, of course, but it's a bit disappointing.

-ch

 

[thebigshow]

yeah, i get a weird feeling everytime i see something sayin the subaru trannies can only hold a little more than stock numbers. i mean, what's the point of some of these cars if u can't do anything more than a couple boltons. i'm gonna have to start doin some research on the evo viii.

 

[CloNeGTS]

Does this strike anyone else as being a little strange? Subaru saying something about a car that is 4 years away....yet we didn't have any engine/hp idea about the 04 Impreza until the day of the release?

I don't think I'd take this info too seriously....but it's good to hear the mindset for more power is still alive and well.

 

[hyperion]

Well, to use another such analogy, the Acura NSX is a great example of a car that was essentially engineered to only handle the stock torque. If you look around, you'll see that even the most expensive SC/turbo kits for that car hover around 450HP, a figure that I can get out of my 2.0L MR2. The reason: the bottom end of the motor is weak. The racing "Raybrig" NSXs in Japan actually use a different V6 block.

Just like the Tom's Supra actually uses a 2.1L 503E...

What I just don't understand is: I thought the 6-speed tranny was being used in the bug-eye JDM STi for a few years. These guys have been running around with 600HP even on the bad days. Do we get a different tranny? Or am I just mistaken, and the JDM STi has the old 5-speed?

-ch

 

[thebigshow]

i'm pretty sure it was a 6 speed. dude, this car better not suck.

 

[91TB78]

Its the same tranny. There is a lot of rumors about the tranny. The only tranny I wouldn't trust for longterm is the 5-spd on the WRX (well, with power mods added). If you are worried there are two courses of action.

1) NEVER, and I mean NEVER drop the clutch at high rpms
2) Limit the number of times of hard launches
3) Upon buying the STi, immediately remove the gearset and have it professionally cryoed for added strength
4) Drive like normal and once you need to replace the gearset due to mods added or just "weakness" buy a racing set from a company like MRT who makes racing dogboxes.

Lots of options..I don't like it, it is unsettling, but it is still an amazing car.

 

[BHODGES3]

:-? That adds up to 4 in this country. :-?

 

[chawklit]

doesn't the s202 have the same six speed? They didn't seem to have any trouble with the tranny there.

 

[yxan2]

Its the same tranny. There is a lot of rumors about the tranny. The only tranny I wouldn't trust for longterm is the 5-spd on the WRX (well, with power mods added). If you are worried there are two courses of action.

1) NEVER, and I mean NEVER drop the clutch at high rpms
2) Limit the number of times of hard launches
3) Upon buying the STi, immediately remove the gearset and have it professionally cryoed for added strength
4) Drive like normal and once you need to replace the gearset due to mods added or just "weakness" buy a racing set from a company like MRT who makes racing dogboxes.

Lots of options..I don't like it, it is unsettling, but it is still an amazing car.

what is cryoed gearset? and how much would such a mod go for? install and cryoing?

 

[CloNeGTS]

How does Subaru saying the tranny won't handle a 3.0L 350hp engine equate to them admitting they have problems?

As mentioned before, an AWD system should NEVER be dropped on as in a 1/4 mile run. They aren't meant to take that. I honestly find it amusing how many people insist on using an AWD setup as a drag setup.

Saying the current 6-speed is weak because it won't work in the 350hp setup is like saying my GTS engine is weak because it blew when I threw a 100 shot in it. Compare apples to apples.....a 350hp engine will need a tranny made for it. If Subaru was honestly surprised that it would need a stronger tranny for a more powerful engine.....wow.....they need to find some new engineers!

Now...should we have issues with the tranny holding the 300 hp we will be getting....THEN we can start talking about tranny issues. Otherwise, it looks like we'll be making tranny mods before making the other hp-raising mods. That should be expected to some extent though.

 

[miked801]

"Cryoed" refers to cryogenically freezing it - it basically puts all the little molecules in neat little rows and makes it stronger.
Common process for engine internals, brake rotors, etcetera.

 

[BHODGES3]

Plus, should it ever pass-away you can save it until medical technology advances enough to bring it back... or at least that is what my uncle Walt told me long ago... :wink:

 

[hyperion]

BBS alloy size and Bremo brake size

So, Clone, you're saying that you aren't planning on modifying your car at all? Then you should be perfectly happy with a tranny that falls apart at 350BHP. Myself, I was hoping to modify my car, and so I am disappointed to hear people from Subaru saying that their 6-speed is too weak for 350BHP. I think your notion that we're just looking for flaws would be okay if we were talking about rear-view mirrors or heated seats, but this is a fundamental piece of the drivetrain we're discussing. If Subaru isn't happy with the transmission, then it won't need clutch drops at the drag strip to break it. It will only need another 50HP. Which everyone will have when they replace the intake, downpipe, and exhaust.

Or adds 2-3 more psi.

-ch

 

[91TB78]

"Cryoed" refers to cryogenically freezing it - it basically puts all the little molecules in neat little rows and makes it stronger.
Common process for engine internals, brake rotors, etcetera.

Right, cryo treatment basically makes the metal molecules more dense and of course stronger and more resistant to stress. Very cool (pun intended). You could potentially cryo most of the engine, the brakes, the tranny, the diffs, the wheels, the exhaust, etc, etc. You would have one cool car! 8)

 

[CloNeGTS]

No, I'm saying that I won't be one of those crybabies that goes and does something stupid, blow an engine, and then go home, remove all the aftermarket stuff and try to get the dealer to cover the issue. I'll mod my car, and I'll do so without a warranty backing me up. If you are smart about the mods you make, buy quality products that are OEM or better quality, you should be fine.
And once again, here you are staking all of your claims that the tranny is glass from one unnamed person. Like I said before, this is the very first even slightly negative comment I've heard about the 6-speed. Think about it.....if you hear from 100 people that the WRX is a great car and then one person tells you it's crap.....who are you going to believe?

Look around and ask anyone who is a serious Subaru person. I've done my research into the STi, present and future. I haven't found a single complaint about the tranny.

 

[hyperion]

Alarm Recommendations?

Hey, I am getting an STi regardless; I am happy to have one in North America. And if what was printed in the article turns out to be BS, then I'll be happy as a clam. It's just that AutoExpress has a habit of being right, and I have seen similar rumors (albeit on EVO-centric boards) that have complained about the strength of the tranny. I have big plans for the car, so when I hear something like this it is not encouraging.

-ch

 

[VV]

You have to remember that engineer designed strength and failure strength are two completely different things. If the tranny needs a redesign for 350 bhp, it is likely just to get the fatigue factor of safety back up to the original design. It doesn't mean gear teeth are going to shear off at 350 bhp. It just means Subaru isn't going to warranty a car that has aftermarket mods (surprise, surprise). I am sure the Subaru engineers did a good job of providing enough margin so reasonable modifications won't destroy the tranny. If you want 450 bhp, you might have bigger problems than just the transmission. Just keep in mind that any power modification will decrease the expected life of any car.

On a side note, cryogenics are not the same as alchemy. You can't really change the density of a metal without changing it's atomic structure. I assume it has a similar effect as heat treatment, which decreases the crystal size, making the material harder, but equally more brittle. It would be a good idea for racing, where rebuilding after every 2-3 events is expected, but for street use it could greatly reduce the overall life of the gears. Brittle fractures are a lot more damaging to components than ductile fractures, so choose wisely.

Anyway, that is why we pay so much for aftermarket parts - so they can ruin their test vehicles instead of ours.

 

[yxan2]

arent all you forgetting something, isnt torque really the big Tranny masher?

Article does say 350+ so their tranny might have not help up for say 375-380 hp or what ever 350+ means.

"We're now working on a 3.0-litre turbo Impreza for Japan and Europe that will generate in excess of 350bhp."

 

[91TB78]

You know what I am thinking. Although I agree that AWD cars shouldn't be used for drag applications (unless its a SKyline that is RWD until the gas is hit hard..then adjusts relatively slowly to AWD), what about a road course or even autocrossing? To get the very best times the car needs to be launched pretty hard doesn't it? This is the worst part of dragging/autoX/road racing is the launch. I don't see a whole of difference..

 

[MKIVSupra]

With autoxing, the time does not start counting immediately at the starting line. There is usually some room to get going before you cross the "line" where the timer starts. I have attended open track days but not competed on road courses, but I am sure there is some room to get going, if not a whole lap, before the time starts.