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Discussion Starter #1
Being that the next gen STI should be announced later this year..
  • What do you hope to see with the next generation STI?
  • What would it need to have for you trade-in your current STI?
  • What do you think we'll actually get from Subaru?
I hope that Subaru uses their knowledge, along with what the aftermarket have learned, from the BRZ & WRX to improve upon the FA platform. The aftermarket has shown how far this engine can be pushed and how well it responds to ethanol.

Wish List:

Engine:
  • FA24 engine
  • Stronger rods than the WRX's FA20DIT. This seems to be the weak point over 350 lb-ft. Forged rods and pistons would be great, but won't happen.
  • Dual injection (direct & port) from the BRZ that allows for high RPM power, higher redline & minimizes carbon build-up (this is unlikely since Toyota designed the D-4S dual injection system)
  • BRZ-like intake manifold & heads to improve airflow at higher RPMs
  • More aggressive cams than the WRX to improve high RPM power (I'm okay with the added turbo lag)
  • Twin scroll, equal length header w/ a larger ball bearing turbo to improve high RPM power (again, I'm okay with more turbo lag). They could throw in some billet/titanium compressor/turbine wheels as well :)
  • Improved oiling system - lack of oil flow and pressure at high RPMs is an issue for the BRZ & WRX. Need an oil cooler and oil pan baffling for track days.
  • Flex fuel capability from the factory (definitely won't happen, but I can dream :)). The stock fuel injection system on the WRX works pretty well for flex fuel, even at higher power levels, but has issues with ethanol mixes above E60..
Misc:
  • Hatchback option of course!
  • EPS similar to the BRZ (yes, we'll lose the hydraulic PS and I'm not a huge fan of the WRX EPS)
  • Adaptive/active/magnetic suspension
  • Lighter wheels & better tires - I really hope that they don't go to 20". The 19" wheels already weigh 28.4 lbs. Going to a wheel closer to 20 lbs would help quite a bit. They could also throw on some Michelin PS4S from the factory :)
  • Active exhaust & exhaust tuning to make it sound better since we're losing the rumble by going ELH. A titanium exhaust would be a nice way to shed some extra weight :)
  • Brake ducts
  • Higher redline closer to 7,500 RPM
  • Launch control, no-lift shift, optional rev match, etc.
  • Highway fuel economy closer to 30 mpg
  • Base price around $40k is probably likely.. although I'd be willing to pay a bit more depending on what we actually get.
The drivetrain is fine and they can keep it as-is to save some money.

I care more about the driving experience that the car offers, but below are some specs that would probably help sell the car:
  • HP: 350-400 (flex fuel should easily push it to 350-400whp with minimal modifications if it's anything like the FA20DIT)
  • 0-60: at least in the 4 sec range
  • 1/4 mile: at least in the mid to high 12 sec range
Reality:
I expect that we'll see very little of this. Probably just a slightly tuned version of the FA24 with a larger turbo making ~320-350 hp. I think the aftermarket will still be able to push the engine pretty far as long as it comes with stronger rods than the FA20 and the pistons aren't a weak point given the 8mm larger bore.
 

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I will be surprised if there even is a next STI. Seems like the S209 may be the swansong for it. We will probably get a WRX with some "STI" add ons. Subaru is going the way of all the others with too many suv type cars with the god-awful cvt trans and no power. I myself will not get another one even if i'm wrong, because been there done that. But ok, How about an STI Crosstrek with a manual or DCT? that might do the trick...…..
 

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dual injection would be very nice. Won't have to do the damn expensive walnut cleaning which is needed for direct injection.
 

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But why? Numbers start falling after around 5 grand. It's not a Honda.
Numbers don't have to start falling after 5k though. That's all in cam, intake, and turbo selection. You could very easily design an overall package that pulled strong to 7k or higher. Look at the 2.5 in the 718 S - it has peak power at 6500 but keeps pulling pretty strongly up to a 7500 redline, with the main power band at 6000-7500. There's no reason a new STI engine couldn't perform similarly.
 

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Being that the next gen STI should be announced later this year..
  • What do you hope to see with the next generation STI?
  • What would it need to have for you trade-in your current STI?
  • What do you think we'll actually get from Subaru?
I hope that Subaru uses their knowledge, along with what the aftermarket have learned, from the BRZ & WRX to improve upon the FA platform. The aftermarket has shown how far this engine can be pushed and how well it responds to ethanol.

Wish List:

Engine:
  • FA24 engine
  • Stronger rods than the WRX's FA20DIT. This seems to be the weak point over 350 lb-ft. Forged rods and pistons would be great, but won't happen.
  • Dual injection (direct & port) from the BRZ that allows for high RPM power, higher redline & minimizes carbon build-up (this is unlikely since Toyota designed the D-4S dual injection system)
  • BRZ-like intake manifold & heads to improve airflow at higher RPMs
  • More aggressive cams than the WRX to improve high RPM power (I'm okay with the added turbo lag)
  • Twin scroll, equal length header w/ a larger ball bearing turbo to improve high RPM power (again, I'm okay with more turbo lag). They could throw in some billet/titanium compressor/turbine wheels as well :)
  • Improved oiling system - lack of oil flow and pressure at high RPMs is an issue for the BRZ & WRX. Need an oil cooler and oil pan baffling for track days.
  • Flex fuel capability from the factory (definitely won't happen, but I can dream :)). The stock fuel injection system on the WRX works pretty well for flex fuel, even at higher power levels, but has issues with ethanol mixes above E60..
Misc:
  • Hatchback option of course!
  • EPS similar to the BRZ (yes, we'll lose the hydraulic PS and I'm not a huge fan of the WRX EPS)
  • Adaptive/active/magnetic suspension
  • Lighter wheels & better tires - I really hope that they don't go to 20". The 19" wheels already weigh 28.4 lbs. Going to a wheel closer to 20 lbs would help quite a bit. They could also throw on some Michelin PS4S from the factory :)
  • Active exhaust & exhaust tuning to make it sound better since we're losing the rumble by going ELH. A titanium exhaust would be a nice way to shed some extra weight :)
  • Brake ducts
  • Higher redline closer to 7,500 RPM
  • Launch control, no-lift shift, optional rev match, etc.
  • Highway fuel economy closer to 30 mpg
  • Base price around $40k is probably likely.. although I'd be willing to pay a bit more depending on what we actually get.
The drivetrain is fine and they can keep it as-is to save some money.

I care more about the driving experience that the car offers, but below are some specs that would probably help sell the car:
  • HP: 350-400 (flex fuel should easily push it to 350-400whp with minimal modifications if it's anything like the FA20DIT)
  • 0-60: at least in the 4 sec range
  • 1/4 mile: at least in the mid to high 12 sec range
Reality:
I expect that we'll see very little of this. Probably just a slightly tuned version of the FA24 with a larger turbo making ~320-350 hp. I think the aftermarket will still be able to push the engine pretty far as long as it comes with stronger rods than the FA20 and the pistons aren't a weak point given the 8mm larger bore.
There's a lot on your wish list that would (*I THINK*) push more people away due to the price incease of having any combination of two things listed.

I purchased my current STI because it has all the newest gadgets and gizmos that I wanted (I'm one of those who buy the latest and greatest things) and love the current setup. I do not modify my car. In my opinion, I fall along the lines of the average person who purchases a Limited STI, not just for the performance but to enjoy the car. I baby the crap out of my car. No autox, racing, hell not one of my vehicles have seen redline.

With you saying you're willing to pay more if there were some improvements from you wish list, how about the average person who purchases an STI?

I hope you get something off your list. I'm happy with what is already here and think all the Subarus are getting better and better.
 

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There's a lot on your wish list that would (*I THINK*) push more people away due to the price incease of having any combination of two things listed.

I purchased my current STI because it has all the newest gadgets and gizmos that I wanted (I'm one of those who buy the latest and greatest things) and love the current setup. I do not modify my car. In my opinion, I fall along the lines of the average person who purchases a Limited STI, not just for the performance but to enjoy the car. I baby the crap out of my car. No autox, racing, hell not one of my vehicles have seen redline.

With you saying you're willing to pay more if there were some improvements from you wish list, how about the average person who purchases an STI?

I hope you get something off your list. I'm happy with what is already here and think all the Subarus are getting better and better.
I agree fully with nativepenguin. I want to buy the car I want at the time and enjoy it . If I want a faster, etc., etc, insert wishlist here, I'd buy it or get it next. I do have a Nameless muffler delete, because hell, the sound is worth 50 horsepower, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
But why? Numbers start falling after around 5 grand. It's not a Honda.
There's no reason that the engine has to be designed that way, especially with the 86mm stroke. There's no physical limitation due to piston speeds. Look at the following engines and their stroke & factory redline:

EJ207: 75mm 8,000 RPM
BRZ's FA20D: 86mm 7,400 RPM

For the Honda reference:
B18C: 87.2mm 8,900 RPM
K20A: 86mm 8,600 RPM
F20C: 84mm 9,000 RPM

Yes, these are naturally aspirated inline 4 Honda engines and I don't expect us to get this high of a redline. I think ~7,500 RPM is very reasonable considering the EJ207 & FA20D.

Most American's just prefer instant low-end torque over higher RPM horsepower.. and they don't want turbo lag.

Subaru can easily make power up there.. modified FA20 WRXs have. Swapping to a slightly larger turbo and higher flowing intake manifold is all that it takes. They could also change the cam profiles and improve the flow of the head. The BRZ heads already make power up there.

I'm not asking for a 9,000 RPM redline like I had on my K20 or F20 engines. We're in a world where v8 Mustangs have a higher redline than most Japanese cars (Mustang GT 7,500 RPM & GT350 8,250 RPM).
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
There's a lot on your wish list that would (*I THINK*) push more people away due to the price incease of having any combination of two things listed.

I purchased my current STI because it has all the newest gadgets and gizmos that I wanted (I'm one of those who buy the latest and greatest things) and love the current setup. I do not modify my car. In my opinion, I fall along the lines of the average person who purchases a Limited STI, not just for the performance but to enjoy the car. I baby the crap out of my car. No autox, racing, hell not one of my vehicles have seen redline.

With you saying you're willing to pay more if there were some improvements from you wish list, how about the average person who purchases an STI?

I hope you get something off your list. I'm happy with what is already here and think all the Subarus are getting better and better.
I agree. I wouldn't expect everything on the list. That's why it's a wish list :)

A lot of it is/has already been offered on other cars in the price range like the Civic Type R, Golf R, Focus RS, Ford Ecoboost, etc. It would probably help if Subaru offered a few more packages or configuration options. Things are pretty limited right now with only the base and limited models.

I'm sure everything that I listed would bump the price quite considerably and some people wouldn't want to spend that much. But Subaru already has a lot of the parts and engineering from the FA20 and FA24 platforms. Their new global platform should also help cut costs.

Sure the adaptive suspension, titanium/active exhaust, and forged internals would cost quite a bit.. but otherwise I don't think it's that unrealistic. Those could just be additional options that you could add-on separately.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I agree fully with nativepenguin. I want to buy the car I want at the time and enjoy it . If I want a faster, etc., etc, insert wishlist here, I'd buy it or get it next. I do have a Nameless muffler delete, because hell, the sound is worth 50 horsepower, right?
Don't get me wrong, I love my '19 STI and haven't done any performance modifications to it. There's a reason that I bought it and not a faster car like the Mustang GT.

I'm grateful for what Subaru currently offers, but it would be nice if they made the STI a bit faster from the factory and offered options that many of its competitors include in the same price range.

You said it yourself, if you want something else then you'll just buy it. What would persuade you to buy the next gen STI? Clearly you wanted a better sounding exhaust :) I just thought it would be interesting to see what us enthusiasts want versus what we'll actually see from Subaru.
 

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Give us 350hp+ EJ from factory. Keep the MSRP low.

More stealth sleeper, less rice as the current trend is on RA/S209.

Shave 100-200 lbs.
Better Navigation.
Rev Match/No lift shift/launch control.
Performance data recorder dashcam (similar to GM)
PDR - wideband, knock sensor, voltage, pressures etc (similar to GM - Cobalt SSTC)
Head up display.
Functional front vents (current one's are gimmick)
Better headlight/fog light setup(current one's suck in bad canadian weather)
Beefier horn.
 

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What I want:

- 350HP
- Better exterior Styling (not sure what this would even be, I've owned a 16 & 19 and

I have never been in love with the current gen looks)



What We'll get:
20" wheels
Auto rev match (wouldn't really mind)

Crack and Pop exhaust
 

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I will be surprised if there even is a next STI. Seems like the S209 may be the swansong for it. We will probably get a WRX with some "STI" add ons. Subaru is going the way of all the others with too many suv type cars with the god-awful cvt trans and no power. I myself will not get another one even if i'm wrong, because been there done that. But ok, How about an STI Crosstrek with a manual or DCT? that might do the trick...…..

Didn't Subaru already discontinue the WRX/STi in Europe. Maybe this could be a reality for the US market???
 

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All I want is a hatch model that is ideally lighter than current model years' weights (sub 3,200 weight for an STi).
 

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Didn't Subaru already discontinue the WRX/STi in Europe. Maybe this could be a reality for the US market???
The Euro market regulated themselves out of the STI. There was no way they could pass the emissions/fuel consumption guidelines. Same reason american V8's are done over there after this year.
 

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The Euro market regulated themselves out of the STI. There was no way they could pass the emissions/fuel consumption guidelines. Same reason american V8's are done over there after this year.

In Europe and austrilia the sti is 20 grand or so more than it is in the USA favorable yen to dollar comparison.
 

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The Euro is stronger than the dollar. The VAT and import taxes don't help of course. Moot point since the cars cannot meet euro 6 guidlines... or the previous euro 5... or before that the euro 4 guidelines.
 

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My wish for the next gen STi...Keep/Improve the DCCD more rear bias torque split and get rid of that pesky SI drive, i always drive on S#.
 
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